Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? II


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4177
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Punch Drunk Marc wrote:

I wouldn't say Freya is "evil" perse. Sure she covets Bell and does things that are morally questionable (like enchanting and releasing the monsters during Monsterphilia), but I don't think that really qualifies as evil. She's sly, cunning, and a tad underhanded sure. As of now in the story (Just finished Volume 10 of the main series) I put her on the same level as Hermes. Both are interested in Bell for different reasons and employ certain tactics to see those ambitions through.


Yuvelir beat me to it, and is absolutely right.

While it may or not have been explicitly shown in the anime, people and citizens died. Just because it is a RPG fantasy world doesn't mean evil actions are not evil. Freya, Apollo, and probably a lot of other deities treat the humans of this world as toys. They have no problem killing, maiming, and other vile stuff, to the other deity's toys, and non-aligned humans. Much like the cliche noble or lord running their carriage over the peasants who don't move fast enough out of the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Punch Drunk Marc



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:12 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:

Punch Drunk Marc wrote:
I wouldn't say Freya is "evil" perse. Sure she covets Bell and does things that are morally questionable (like enchanting and releasing the monsters during Monsterphilia), but I don't think that really qualifies as evil. She's sly, cunning, and a tad underhanded sure. As of now in the story (Just finished Volume 10 of the main series) I put her on the same level as Hermes. Both are interested in Bell for different reasons and employ certain tactics to see those ambitions through.

If releasing a dangerous monster in town for your own amusement doesn't qualify as evil, I don't know what does.


Literally a bunch of other things. Freya does morally questionable actions, no doubt, but she's still not really evil. In fact after that she doesnt even do a whole lot until the business in the Red Light District. Not her fault Ganesha Familia and the guild had less than stellar security.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Punch Drunk Marc



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Punch Drunk Marc wrote:

I wouldn't say Freya is "evil" perse. Sure she covets Bell and does things that are morally questionable (like enchanting and releasing the monsters during Monsterphilia), but I don't think that really qualifies as evil. She's sly, cunning, and a tad underhanded sure. As of now in the story (Just finished Volume 10 of the main series) I put her on the same level as Hermes. Both are interested in Bell for different reasons and employ certain tactics to see those ambitions through.


Yuvelir beat me to it, and is absolutely right.

While it may or not have been explicitly shown in the anime, people and citizens died. Just because it is a RPG fantasy world doesn't mean evil actions are not evil. Freya, Apollo, and probably a lot of other deities treat the humans of this world as toys. They have no problem killing, maiming, and other vile stuff, to the other deity's toys, and non-aligned humans. Much like the cliche noble or lord running their carriage over the peasants who don't move fast enough out of the way.


That is literally all speculation. People were hurt, but no one died in the Monsterphilia attack (At least no from what Freya did, the Evils are an entirely different matter). Freya released a few easily containable monsters (Bell just had trouble with the Silverback because he was weak at the time) and there was some collateral damage. Not saying it was right, but its much more mischievous on her end than outright evil.

For the most part Freya minds her business unless Bell is involved. After Monsterphilia she didn't do anything until the Red Light District. She's not exactly good, but I definitely wouldnt call her evil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hobbie



Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:27 pm Reply with quote
From what I remenber, nobody died in the novel or anime from the monster attack or the assault on the Ishtar famillia. The Freyja famiilia is even participating in the defense of the city against Ares spoiler[(and again nobody died)].
Freyja is simply an ambiguous character which is quite logic in a world where deities lives for their own amusement. She bend the rules a bit, but she doesn't strike me as someone who just break the game. It wouldn't be fun for her otherwise.


Last edited by Hobbie on Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 1474
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:57 pm Reply with quote
While I think it would have been better to not have made a cop out for Haruhime, I like the way the anime handled it in comparison to the novels.

Considering Ishtar is gone and the amazons seem to be moving on, do the novels ever mention what happened to the red light district after that? It seems like a big piece of Orario to just completely abandon because the main familia of the district is gone and it's not like the world's oldest profession is just going to stop because of it either. Presumably someone else would take over, but if the author really didn't like it, he could just do something else with the space, less realistic as that might be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nordhmmer



Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 722
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:07 pm Reply with quote
The Minotaur which Ottar trained,per Freya's command,spoiler[ continues to kill a number of adventurers].During the Freya Family's attack a number of no-named Amazons died.


Wouldn't say Freya is outright evil,more selfish if anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 15939
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:21 pm Reply with quote
Hobbie wrote:
From what I remenber, nobody died in the novel or anime from the monster attack or the assault on the Ishtar famillia. The Freyja famiilia is even participating in the defense of the city against Ares spoiler[(and again nobody died)].

Yeah, Freya's not participating by choice. The anime skips over clarifying this, but the Guild can compel Familias to take on missions in times of crisis to the city. Hence Freya Familia would be obligated to participate, just like Loki Familia is. The anime also skips over clarifying that Freya Familia is on the Guild's shit list over their actions against Ishtar Familia, so they're doubly obliged to take a good chunk of the load for defending the city. (Yes, Ishtar Familia was planning to attack them, but Freya was clearly acting for other reasons and it's doubtful that she even had an inkling of what Ishtar was planning so it comes off as an unprovoked attack.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Hobbie



Joined: 29 Jan 2017
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 pm Reply with quote
That's right ! I forgot ! Indeed they're pressured because of the Ishtar incident ! My bad !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4177
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Unless this is a Hanna Barbera cartoon, it should be quite safe to infer people died when the monsters were released in the middle of the city. That is what monsters do, especially the ones that were on hand for the arena. It would have taken a bit of time for the civil and security services, and probably some adventurers to realize what has happened, and then deal with the matter. It doesn't need to be explicitly shown, unless major or minor characters died as a result.

If lions, tigers and bears were released into downtown Manhattan; you can bet there would be casualties before the police would be able to contain the situation.

But hey, I understand, this is just one of those anime things. Like how there never is an adult around when you need them, parents that never seem to care what their kids are up to (least Madoka Magica didn't go all into that), and that the power of friendship will make you forgive and forget mass murder and genocide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GhostD



Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 649
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:39 am Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
I thought the third quest would be Ziz, but I guess killing the protector of all birds isn't too appealing.
I was a bit underwhelmed at what the great three quests were. I thought they would be something grand that predates adventuring as a whole. But instead it's a clean-up job of something that could eventually happen again.


Not really. Unfortunately even the scene of the quests reveal isn't complete so there are some extra bits of info that were skipped. I could explain it in detail but I suggest reading the LN if possible specifically vol 6 to know the details.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pip25
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Hobbie wrote:
From what I remenber, nobody died in the novel or anime from the monster attack or the assault on the Ishtar famillia.
.
We see an amazon getting impaled by a spear from one of Freya's familia members on-screen. Without any blood, as weird as that is, but she nonetheless looked pretty dead to me afterwards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 1474
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:23 pm Reply with quote
pip25 wrote:
Hobbie wrote:
From what I remenber, nobody died in the novel or anime from the monster attack or the assault on the Ishtar famillia.
.
We see an amazon getting impaled by a spear from one of Freya's familia members on-screen. Without any blood, as weird as that is, but she nonetheless looked pretty dead to me afterwards.


Unless the anime toned it down, she just got hit in the shoulder and knocked out, though I'm sure people were taken out in the assault. Let's also not forget the two Mikoto kicked off the bridge for on screen (presumed) deaths (and I'm sure Bell's opening charged up firebolt wasn't exactly a soft blow either).

Considering the power difference between Freya's people and Ishtar's (I think that spear guy mentioned earlier was lvl 5 or 6 for example), I'm sure there were more than a few that got taken out by the power difference alone.

If Freya was a mortal then I think an evil alignment might be appropriate, but considering she's not I think she'd fall more in line with a chaotic character type, only concerned with her own wishes, without regard for the consequences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pip25
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Covnam wrote:
Unless the anime toned it down, she just got hit in the shoulder and knocked out.

I know I shouldn't be expecting an anatomy lesson from a show like Danmachi, but someone getting "knocked out" by a spear piercing her body, shoulder or elsewhere (and it went pretty deep too, said familia member had to pull it out with considerable force in a not-so-slightly disturbing scene) is not something I'd describe as a non-lethal takedown, not on purpose at the very least. (If she did survive - but how do we know that? She was just a nameless random character who attacked Hestia and the others.)
Overall I agree though. It is inconceivable that no one died in that battle, at least the way the anime presented it. I mean the whole district was on fire, for crying out loud.

Why would the fact that Freya is a god affect the morality of her decisions though?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:33 pm Reply with quote
GhostD wrote:
Not really. Unfortunately even the scene of the quests reveal isn't complete so there are some extra bits of info that were skipped. I could explain it in detail but I suggest reading the LN if possible specifically vol 6 to know the details.

Eh, I'm not invested enough to go through the novels. I can live without knowing why the three great quests are more amazing and unique than they seem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 1970
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:15 pm Reply with quote
This is a world where potions exist, people. You can get hurt quite a bit and still be all right. This is an exception but Bell (volume 13 spoilers) spoiler[has his arm torn off then put back in] at one point. It's not inconceivable that there were no deaths through most of the things you're describing - I don't really think the Guild would be just all right with people murdering each other left and right. Probably lots of people got hurt, for sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 13 of 15

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group