Forum - View topic
EP. REVIEW: Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken!


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1252
Location: Clemson, SC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:44 pm Reply with quote
sjk9000 wrote:
The review referred to Doukmeki as "him", but according the Eizouken anime website, she's a she.
http://eizouken-anime.com/character/?id=4

This seems to be a common error, and I can understand why. It's a very androgynous character design.

I figured as much. I am a bit disappointed in this aspect of the show. It is trying for a lot of things, most of which I think it accomplishes, but honestly this feels like pandering at its worst. Is there a reason why they can’t have a boy in the club (or in adjacent facilities)? It feels odd.

Zac wrote:
None of them behave like children - they’re reflective of different creative personalities, and so “girls” feels inappropriately belittling to me. This is not a Cute Girls Doing Cute Things show, it’s about what it takes to make collaborative art.

But Midori is behaving childish. At least half of the time. It’s not just having your head in the clouds. She speaks in childish Japanese. She has stuffed animals and light-up shoes. Heck, her first intuition about the robot was extremely childish.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7897
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:40 am Reply with quote
dragon695 wrote:

But Midori is behaving childish. At least half of the time. It’s not just having your head in the clouds. She speaks in childish Japanese. She has stuffed animals and light-up shoes. Heck, her first intuition about the robot was extremely childish.


I disagree - I think Midori is an expression of a particular type of creative personality that you absolutely do need in order to make something that will reach people, and Kanamori recognizes that immediately in the first episode of this show. You can denigrate Midori as "childish" all you want, but the fact of the matter is, her ideas - and her imagination - are basically driving this car. Even Kanamori can tell - that's why she respects Midori so much, even if she sometimes has to smack her on the noggin to get her to focus.

Again, this show feels like it's absolutely made for creatives and people who have to work with creatives to get something finished. Midori isn't a child - she's just an artist with a gift that you can't deny. Even Kanamori sees that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 3695
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:48 am Reply with quote
When Trigger made Kill La Kill they made quite a big deal about using hand-painted backgrounds, but in this show it doesn't seem like it is that hard for them to do(that first project they only needed one background artist), I wonder why more shows don't. Unless it is just easy for them as they are in a school with an art club at hand.
Doodleboy wrote:
Kind of wild robot shows even became a thing with anime, given that they're uniquely unsuitable for animation before the advent of CG. A-lot of America's animation style was built on the principals of trying to avoid drawing crap as detailed as giant robots (generalizing, but there's a reason Bruce Timm/Disney/Simpsons etc. model sheets were pretty simple).
From what I understand Mecha anime was originally really cheap to make, talking 60s and 70s here, they are easy to break into different layers and early super robot designs are relatively simple design wise.Mecha design only got more realistic later on, and mostly only in OVAs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
yurigasaki



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 131
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:31 pm Reply with quote
steelmirror wrote:
Zac wrote:
yurigasaki wrote:
Admittedly this is kind of a nitpick but is there any reason the reviews keep referring to the characters as "women"? It just strikes me as an incredibly weird word choice considering they're all like, sixteen years old, max.


“Girls” feels creepy to me. I suppose I could use “artists” instead of even mentioning their gender, but “women” feels like a term that reflects the respect I have for these characters.

None of them behave like children - they’re reflective of different creative personalities, and so “girls” feels inappropriately belittling to me. This is not a Cute Girls Doing Cute Things show, it’s about what it takes to make collaborative art.
Well I mean, girls can be artists too...there's nothing bad about being a girl. It can be used as a pejorative, but it doesn't have to be!

Not that I disagree with your actual decision in any way, it's sort of a nonissue for me either way. Use whichever one you like better!

It does make me a little sad to think that "girls" or "boys" might be abandoned as terms outside of belittling, because I think girls and boys (as in, younger version of women and men) can be rich characters with complexity and dignity in their own right. They don't always have to be infantilized or held up on a moe pedestal in the way that CGDCT implies. "Coming of age" is a classical story structure that I adore, but it does sort of imply that being "A Woman" is somehow better and superior to being "A Girl", when I think there is room to celebrate both states of being as distinct and worthy on their own. (ditto of course for "Boys" and "Men") Girls can do all sorts of interesting things, and be interesting, without having to draw some invisible line that says only "women" can be interesting characters, girls are just not worthy of considering their internal life yet.

But again, that's just an internet rant. I get where you are coming from, even if I don't really think it's necessary.


Honestly, this is my feelings on it too, and I don't think I could've articulated them as well as this, so I appreciate this post a lot lol. Like, I get that your intentions are good but there's something kind of belittling in itself in acting like "girl" is a dirty word to be avoided, or that characters who are girls can't be interesting or complex. Similarly, it's pretty dismissive to act as though interesting and complex characters can't come from a CGDCT show or that those shows can't explore interesting themes just as well as Eizouken can.

I don't particularly expect either post here to change your mind, it was just really jarring and weird to keep coming across that word in reviews.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7897
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:18 pm Reply with quote
yurigasaki wrote:

Honestly, this is my feelings on it too, and I don't think I could've articulated them as well as this, so I appreciate this post a lot lol. Like, I get that your intentions are good but there's something kind of belittling in itself in acting like "girl" is a dirty word to be avoided, or that characters who are girls can't be interesting or complex. Similarly, it's pretty dismissive to act as though interesting and complex characters can't come from a CGDCT show or that those shows can't explore interesting themes just as well as Eizouken can.

I don't particularly expect either post here to change your mind, it was just really jarring and weird to keep coming across that word in reviews.


Let me put it another way-

The word "girl" - in the full context of anime and anime fandom - has been largely fetishized into oblivion and carries a certain connotation if you've been watching this stuff long enough and have spent enough time around anime fans. Just one of the wonderful things about this show is that their gender matters not - nobody cares, it's never an issue, and they simply do not behave like your average "anime girl". They're in high school, but this is a complete nitpick that sidetracks from what the show is actually about, which is the collaborative creative process.

So I made the decision to use the phrase "the women of Eizouken" to sidestep the problematic "girl" phrasing, instead choosing to emphasize the writing and their individual characters rather than focus on their age. The show simply isn't written with a focus on age - it's just a metaphor for anime production and what happens when unbridled creativity meets capitalism. So, IMO - doesn't matter what word I use.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:59 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
When Trigger made Kill La Kill they made quite a big deal about using hand-painted backgrounds, but in this show it doesn't seem like it is that hard for them to do(that first project they only needed one background artist), I wonder why more shows don't. Unless it is just easy for them as they are in a school with an art club at hand.


Not an expert on animation by any means, but this one is pretty easy to answer if you think about it. Painting digitally is just far quicker, and far better for production than painting by hand. You're not waiting for paint to dry. You don't need expensive camera equipment (like the multi-plane set-up they found in the second episode) since the file is already on the computer and seperated into layers.

Making changes is also a lot easier. If you're not sure whether you want some power-lines in the scene? Paint them on a separate layer and you can decide on the fly. The colour-key is now blue instead of orange? Shift the hues of the entire painting in photoshop and then paint over what doesn't work.

Digital painting also has a smaller learning curve so it gets popular with younger artists. With digital tools you don't have to gather the intuition about knowing how lighter or darker the paint is going to get when it dries for instance.

What you lose in the digital process is some of the randomness that hand-painting offers. Digital tools have managed to replicate things, but not completely, and most digital backgrounds go for a more polished realistic look. One thing that showed this in stark detail is comparing the backgrounds of the Evangelion TV series with the backgrounds of the Rebuild films. It can be like night and day.

MarshalBanana wrote:
From what I understand Mecha anime was originally really cheap to make, talking 60s and 70s here, they are easy to break into different layers and early super robot designs are relatively simple design wise.Mecha design only got more realistic later on, and mostly only in OVAs.


Oh right, I didn't think about that part. Same reason Yogi Bear has a collar.

Zac wrote:
I disagree - I think Midori is an expression of a particular type of creative personality that you absolutely do need in order to make something that will reach people, and Kanamori recognizes that immediately in the first episode of this show. You can denigrate Midori as "childish" all you want, but the fact of the matter is, her ideas - and her imagination - are basically driving this car. Even Kanamori can tell - that's why she respects Midori so much, even if she sometimes has to smack her on the noggin to get her to focus.


I think one of the themes of this show is that those childlike qualities that Midori and Tsubame has are going to be perceived as weaknesses, but they're not. Midori's tendency to get stuck in her own head, go on flights of fancy and obsess over information that has no practical application instead of say... focusing on her schoolwork. Those are all her strengths, it allows her to come up with ideas that nobody else can.

Same with how Tsubame's perfectionist tendencies can absolutely derail a production. But at the same time that level of dedication to her craft allows her to make things that go beyond a normal corporate product and make something truly special. To go back to the Richard Williams example, a Thief and a Cobbler may have been a production disaster but you're never really going to see anything else like it. And you'd be hard pressed to find animators as good as Richard Williams was.

Honestly there's something I find pretty inspiring about that. Taking these qualities that under (screw it I'll say it) capitalism will be undervalued, beaten out, and mocked, and then straight out saying that these character traits are valuable.

It's a common theme with shows about artists. There's a scene in Re:Creators where one character calls an mangaka insane for being so single-mindedly dedicated to something so "Childish". Little Witch Academia is all about being obsessed with an art-form that most of the practical world does not care about, and being inspired to something that impacted you as a child despite it being seen as cheesy by most people.


Last edited by Doodleboy on Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2454
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:26 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
yurigasaki wrote:

Honestly, this is my feelings on it too, and I don't think I could've articulated them as well as this, so I appreciate this post a lot lol. Like, I get that your intentions are good but there's something kind of belittling in itself in acting like "girl" is a dirty word to be avoided, or that characters who are girls can't be interesting or complex. Similarly, it's pretty dismissive to act as though interesting and complex characters can't come from a CGDCT show or that those shows can't explore interesting themes just as well as Eizouken can.

I don't particularly expect either post here to change your mind, it was just really jarring and weird to keep coming across that word in reviews.


Let me put it another way-

The word "girl" - in the full context of anime and anime fandom - has been largely fetishized into oblivion and carries a certain connotation if you've been watching this stuff long enough and have spent enough time around anime fans. Just one of the wonderful things about this show is that their gender matters not - nobody cares, it's never an issue, and they simply do not behave like your average "anime girl". They're in high school, but this is a complete nitpick that sidetracks from what the show is actually about, which is the collaborative creative process.

So I made the decision to use the phrase "the women of Eizouken" to sidestep the problematic "girl" phrasing, instead choosing to emphasize the writing and their individual characters rather than focus on their age. The show simply isn't written with a focus on age - it's just a metaphor for anime production and what happens when unbridled creativity meets capitalism. So, IMO - doesn't matter what word I use.



I have been watching anime a long time and I am in my 30’s. As an adult woman I personally don’t see anything demeaning about calling characters in High School “girls”.


Note when I watch Haikyuu for example I call the characters “boys”


I think characters in HS are on the verge of adulthood but they aren’t adults yet so I don’t see the terms girls and boys demeaning or to lessen them in anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7897
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:04 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:



I have been watching anime a long time and I am in my 30’s. As an adult woman I personally don’t see anything demeaning about calling characters in High School “girls”.


Note when I watch Haikyuu for example I call the characters “boys”


I think characters in HS are on the verge of adulthood but they aren’t adults yet so I don’t see the terms girls and boys demeaning or to lessen them in anyway.


Fair enough - but I also think it doesn't actually matter either way which word I use, "women" or "girls". It's a nitpick - they're humans and artists first.

I may switch to "team" or "artists" if this - IMO pretty pointless in the grand scheme of what this show is actually about - continues to dominate conversation about it, but that's my decision as the author to make.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8722
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:57 am Reply with quote
The one thing that astonishes me every week is how much they cram into each episode, and without it seeming overstuffed. I feel like the episode should be over when it's only half way through, and every episode feels like a double feature. To be clear, this isn't a criticism, and I'm not saying I'm looking at the clock halfway through, I just am always surprised at the end of an episode to realize I only watched one episode instead of binging two. I've never had an anime (or movie, for that matter) mess up my time sense so thoroughly and on a regular basis.

As an example, the trip to the underground in Ep. 5 would've filled an entire episode in another anime, but it was only the first half in this one. Yet it didn't feel like it was trimmed to the bone for time. Rather it just took up less space in the running time than it appeared to, in a sort of Tardis-esque effect. This series looks normal from the outside, but when you're immersed in it, it contains a universe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2454
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:48 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:



I have been watching anime a long time and I am in my 30’s. As an adult woman I personally don’t see anything demeaning about calling characters in High School “girls”.


Note when I watch Haikyuu for example I call the characters “boys”


I think characters in HS are on the verge of adulthood but they aren’t adults yet so I don’t see the terms girls and boys demeaning or to lessen them in anyway.


Fair enough - but I also think it doesn't actually matter either way which word I use, "women" or "girls". It's a nitpick - they're humans and artists first.

I may switch to "team" or "artists" if this - IMO pretty pointless in the grand scheme of what this show is actually about - continues to dominate conversation about it, but that's my decision as the author to make.



I was mainly disagreeing with your reasoning in this post. Whatever word you choose to use in your reviews is perfectly fine with me. And I don’t see anything wrong with not using girls just as I don’t see anything wrong with using it in this case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7897
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:45 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
The one thing that astonishes me every week is how much they cram into each episode, and without it seeming overstuffed. I feel like the episode should be over when it's only half way through, and every episode feels like a double feature. To be clear, this isn't a criticism, and I'm not saying I'm looking at the clock halfway through, I just am always surprised at the end of an episode to realize I only watched one episode instead of binging two. I've never had an anime (or movie, for that matter) mess up my time sense so thoroughly and on a regular basis.

As an example, the trip to the underground in Ep. 5 would've filled an entire episode in another anime, but it was only the first half in this one. Yet it didn't feel like it was trimmed to the bone for time. Rather it just took up less space in the running time than it appeared to, in a sort of Tardis-esque effect. This series looks normal from the outside, but when you're immersed in it, it contains a universe.


Yeah, no kidding - 100% agreed. These reviews take me forever to write specifically because the pacing is so breakneck and so much stuff happens in every episode - and I want to make sure I hit all the important points and try to discuss what Yuasa is portraying. I'm always like "wait, it's been 5 minutes and I'm at 700 words already" type of thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
steelmirror



Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 341
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:18 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Fair enough - but I also think it doesn't actually matter either way which word I use, "women" or "girls". It's a nitpick - they're humans and artists first.
As one of the people who felt moved enough to write a post about it, I agree wholeheartedly with this. It was a nitpick the entire time I was typing, I just felt that it had a kernel of interest in there worth taking a couple minutes for me to try to articulate.

Your reasons for avoiding the term "girls" in the context of anime fandom have merit as well, IMO, so I see why you made the decision you did, and appreciate that you were willing to explain it, too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanteikingdomkey
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2011
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:45 am Reply with quote
I know a lot of people probably don't notice/ wont care about this, but I want to put it out there. I was watching the show with other friends who are on the autism spectrum and we all started to pick up on some odd stuff about midori that we normally never see in characters. The first thing that really stuck out to me was this rabbit plushie in episode 6, but it has pun unintended sent me down an autistic rabbit hole.


Did anyone else notice that when ever midori, talks to people, besides kanamori and mizusaki, successfully (she isn't really able to until episode 5) she almost always has these odd and by neuro-typical standards childish mannerisms.

The only other times she will bring her clothes up to cover her mouth and a lot of her face If she is facing towards someone when talking to them, and will respond off hand only if she is not facing them or giving a pre-scripted response in a routine situation . Both of these behaviors are extremely common for people who suffer from extreme social anxiety and other communication issues.

HOWEVER something that makes me think that it is actually specifically autism, is the sudden appearance of her emotional stability rabbit midway into episode 5 that pops up out of nowhere.

We cut to her pulling a plush rabbit out of mid-air when is she unable to run away from a situation she says she is scared of. We are told via text that she packed all this stuff including the rabbit to ward off ghosts. it is two lights, a sword like object, and the plush rabbit which she presses into her body via the backpack strap. It only disappears again when she is back safe and sound in the "clubroom". There is only one group of people I know of that use plushes, robes, and blankets (randomly wearing at the beginning of episode 6) to provide positive physical feedback to calm them down when they are emotionally stressed (regardless of social perceptions) and that is people who have autism. This is especially true for people who would carry around such an item with them regularly just in case they would need it to help them calm down.

The next time we see the rabbit in episode 6 is when she is having the conversation with the art club that she was dreading, and it is again clutched in front of her chest, once again pushing it into her body with her fingers. when she does not have it in her hands it is pressing into her via her pockets, and kanamori has to guide her into her own points and information she has to communicate to the art club. afterwards we are told that she needs time to recover from talking to the art club. this is commonly seen in people with autism as it is rather rare to find an extroverted autistic.

Midori also can have rather abrupt or extreme jumps in logic, that tend to lead into the magical animation scenes where we see her imagination run wild. This is typically described as neurologically atypical behavior for a teenager her age to have, and is seen as something one who is neurologically typical would grow out of by her age.
However when combined with this line from kanamori "She has a tendency to only enjoy working when there's some odd line of reasoning to it" to me implies that she only is invested/will talk about things that fall into her established interest, and she only acts "normal" when it falls within that sphere of influence. THIS IS TEXTBOOK AUTISTIC BEHAVIOR.

Also her design is odd to me in compression to the other characters in the series almost everyone else has some aspect of their facial design that is emphasized Like kanamori's nose is always a core part of her expressions or mizusaki's eyebrows. Meanwhile a ton of the time her face looks almost barren and like it is missing elements.
Personally I think that it is supposed to be that she has very blank/inexpressive facial expressions, personally this makes me assume that she has trouble showing emotion and displaying body language in a traditional matter. And then there is her rather flat and monotoned voice that doesn't alter pitch much but instead mostly alters in speed of delivery.

The above are some of the most generally (at first) noticeable features of someone who would be described as on dealing with autism specturm disorder, aside from eye contact which is implied to never happen with her.

Then there is her work output which kanamori describes as "incredible once she gets going however she spends to much time on" other stuff otherwise. This cycle of boom and negative work output is another common autistic behavior.
We see an example of this negative work output behavior when midori suddenly tries to change the entirety of the project on a whim at the end of episode 6 by going down a negative rabbithole of ideas purposing the destruction of the robot that is the entire reason for the project, not taking into account all the people it would hurt if they did that on a whim. To be followed up with another reminder that "her motivation switch seems pretty random. Random enough that we should let her run free." which can be seen as problematic as some her have characterized it, but I think is very understanding toward what she is going through.

Midori is one of the most positive and realistic autistic characters that I have seen I think. It quietly shows off and normalizes her as a powerful and full person, while still acknowledging what midori has to deal with and how she thinks and feels in part due to her difference, and how that difference leads to her having a positive impact.

But above all, it shows off and presents her joy and creativity. SO MUCH of the time people like to put people with autism into this computer like persona, and that there is not an inner life and emotions to them, or that they are only negative/extreme emotions that are solely problematic, Midori however shows off the joy and wonder that people with autism have, and that we do have an inner life and imagination like anyone else, even if we have trouble expressing it sometimes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dm
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 442
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:26 pm Reply with quote
I had to stop the show and cheer after that opening with Tsubame, and her fascination with the discarded tea glittering in the sunlight. Her love of observing how light plays and things move was beautiful to behold.

And then the show just kept getting better from there. The business with moving her chair up to the wall to see how one rises from a chair, sitting in class drawing her other students in motion. (Makes me think of the stories of Leonardo da Vinci --- especially the bit with the movement of water.)

And when the ending animation started, I cheered again.

It makes me wish I was still watching this show in a darkened lecture hall at an anime club meeting.

I have to wonder, though: throughout this episode the characters were pretty off model, making me wonder if the team working on this episode were primarily sakuga experts. But who cares? The direction and the story told through animation was perfect. The writing was perfect. If your told me it was a deliberate choice by the director, I'd believe you.

Quote:
Man, I love this show so much.


Yes, yes. This exactly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:23 am Reply with quote
What Midori is doing does have precedent among auteur directors (Satoshi Kon did do the layouts for all his movies because he wanted things in a particular way, so he left only the actual animation part to the animators https://anigamers.com/interviews/animator-aya-suzuki-anime-industry-animenext-2015). There's also a clip of Hayao Miyazaki ripping his animator a new one as he redrew running cycle in the Princess Mononoke documentary. I do think there's value in Midori trying to work with the art-club, that is if the art-club head can set aside his ego long enough to learn something. In any collaborative creative work you're going to have to explain and defend your ideas to other people, sometimes people with no artistic background. It's a good skill to develop for Midori in the future. It probably would've been a good idea to show him the entire process, see his work in the context of the entire production.

I suppose Eizouken is lucky that the robotics club at least know about robot anime despite them not being the best clients. Sometimes I wonder how soul-crushing the concept artist meetings with the executives behind the Sonic movie must've been like.

One characteristic that Tsubame has is an amusement and curiosity about everything. It's not hard to see why (outside of the rich person gag) after this episode. Every small movement, every single thing she learns about the world is raw materials for her craft. The way different people walk, sleep, the way water flows, expressions on people's faces all of it is information she can take in to improve.

Reminds me of a concept artist specializing in machinery doing a lecture about how much their job is to basically analyze robotics, joints and mechanical parts to an insane level. There are plenty of artists like Tsubame in the world, not caring about the overall product, but doing their specialized role to the peak of their ability.

In a lot of ways Eizouken feels like a spiritual prequel to Shirobako. Kind of everything in between the chant of the animation club and skipping years later with Miyamori being exhausted in a car. All of the passion and energy of being an artist, none of the burnout and cynicism (well beyond Kanamori). It does feel like an idealization of the creative process.

Although even Shirobako feels like an idealization. Judging by what gets reported actual animation production is more like Girlish Number or Paranoia agent... sigh...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group