Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime Season 2
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5840 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Guess we will have to disagree on that point. If the United States was invaded I wouldn't be caring one bit about the enemy soldiers. All I would be caring about is my family and ensuring not one enemy stands to harm them. It is not a matter of dehumanizing the enemy soldiers, it is a matter of survival of yourself and the ones you care about. I really don't see the need to be grappling mentally with destroying enemy soldiers who are coming to kill you and yours.
Also, enemy soldiers are different than enemy civilians. If Rimuru was going to devour the souls of entire cities, well that is different than completely destroying enemy armies. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2317 |
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You say "it is not a matter of dehumanizing the enemy soldiers" -- but that's exactly what you describe hypothetical-you doing in the rest of this passage. You've giving a reason for dehumanizing them, yes; you want to focus on protecting your loved ones, and surviving, and to do so effectively, you treat the enemy soldiers as objects, not as people. And, in that situation, arguably that's a very reasonable thing to do. After all, you're not an intensely overpowered cartoon Slime -- you have little choice but to prioritize your life and the lives of your loved ones, and not get caught up in the ethics of defending yourself, or empathizing with the enemy. You can't afford to hesitate because you see the humanity in the people attacking you. But just because that's a reasonable choice doesn't mean it comes without emotional consequences. Willfully crushing your sense of empathy to kill and survive is a significant scar. It shouldn't be portrayed lightly. That said, if you want that kind of psychological trauma to be played off as unimportant or for comedic effect -- well, yes, then we disagree, to put lightly. |
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Cryten
 Posts: 997 |
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Necessity to kill is far different from predating apon humans. Most german soldiers in both world wars where quite normal people, conscripts and volunteers fighting for their country. Controlled by their superiors through propaganda, fear and intimidation (among others). It was required to kill them to keep them from killing our soldiers and to retake invaded land. But that does not make them inherently evil. Their choices and moral perspective decides that.
Similarly we as viewers recognise that the soldiers of the falmuth are there simply as soldiers and from a normal feeling of protecting humanity from the scary monsters. It may be needed to protect yourself but the idea of other people just living their lives being ended does not go away. I personally think slime is not the kind of show thats willing to kill with that thought lingering in the background (anime only viewer). His ideals is one of things I like about the show. I have wanted the show to develop more nuance in rulership and character writing but the way it treated the grown up reincarnations and the leaders of the church and falmuth.. I dont think its going for nuance. Instead it was simply playing with tragedy. Which logically, for me, means the show isnt going to ignore human cost in life. Always a taboo in morally simple shows. Keep in mind that all fights so far have gone out of their way to show evilness of their actions or the need to fight for survival. Will that be our path? Will miracle resurrection be our path? or is the show going to pivot to the path of destruction and change the theme entirely? |
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GhostD
Posts: 1003 |
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Finally getting into the thick of it next ep though I could have done without the recap of Milim's backstory and the events of the previous season even if it did involve Rimuru revealing his origins.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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The first half of the episode is just re-establishing that the monsters are slavishly loyal to him, which was never in doubt in the first place.
The fact that Slimey talks about the army in terms of forgiveness rather than self-defense makes clear that the show doesn't want us thinking about it in terms of necessity, but it also doesn't seem to want us thinking about the ethical implications of consuming a bunch of souls from conscripts (in a world where souls are clearly real). And given that the monsters (and some humans) never seemed to have any trouble instantly assimilating and subjugating themselves to Slimey, with the show presenting that as a positive ("Everything would work out if people just accepted a benevolent dictator," I guess?), the show has been a thematic mess, and it can't get back to not taking itself seriously soon enough. |
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Yuvelir
 Posts: 1577 |
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That was an awful lot of padding in the first half, huh? They really want to leave all the action for next episode.
Rimuru speculating made me check if Clayman was or not a maou, and at the very least he's recognized as one by three others. And it made me realize that the plan here is the same as last time: have a monster swallow enough power and souls to become a maou. It also made me realize how late Millim was introduced and how few episodes she's in. She's such a fun character and her presence is so big that it feels like she were there for most of S1. Also, when watching it for the first time I shrugged it off as some chuunibyou rambling, but among the titles she gave herself was "the only Dragonoid". Huh. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yeah, this episode was clearly padding and stalling to set up a proper episode break. Hardly the worst example of such behavior, but definitely not one of the smoothest, either.
I'll also agree on how the tone didn't mesh well this episode, maybe more so than at any other point in the series. This is some damn serious stuff that Rimuru is talking about, but it comes across too lightly. Rimuru's speaking voice definitely isn't helping on that. Only at the very end of the episode did I feel that the tone was finally hitting the heavier note that it needed. |
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JaffaOrange
 Posts: 251 |
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So this new episode is still skirting around the idea that Rimuru needs to kill at least 10,000 humans...
What I found darkly humorous was the triumphant music playing while discussing how becoming a demon lord will ACTUALLY lead to peace and harmony when it essentially is ruling with absolute fear. Like, imagine that scene but with the cabinet of a despotic country discussing how it's right for them to acquire nuclear weapons. At least that anaolgy doesn't require 10,000 people to directly perish. I figured the decision for Rimuru to become a demon lord would be this tragic, yet inevitable fare. The destiny of an uber powerful being that wanted to control territory and influence countries, the stark reality that even a benevolent dictator must face. Instead we get this weirdly upbeat moment which reminds me of self-serving back-patting you might find at a questionably useful corporate meeting. In a way, this is darker. The greatest evils of the world are not perpetrated by moustache-twirling villains but by bureaucrats who have convinced themselves they're doing the right thing. The yes-men shake hands and thousands of people die. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5840 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Killing uniformed soldiers who are invading your country, to kill you and your people, and destroy your nation is not an act of evil. No matter how many you kill.
Lets not forget some important facts. Tempest's enemies conducted a surprise leadership decapitation strike against the Tempest nation. There are already enemy soldiers in the capital of Tempest. In addition enemy force regulars have already crossed the border to attack Tempest. These are all acts of war. These are all perfectly valid reasons for decimating all enemy combatants attacking you. There is no rule or moral imperative, that says you can only kill some of the enemies attacking you. Especially when we all know exactly what those enemy soldiers are going to do to the citizens of Tempest. That evil flag is not waving over Rimuru's or the Tempest nation's head, but rather over Falmuth and it's King. |
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1577 |
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I am preeetty sure there are rules, based on moral imperatives, about the use of excesive force, the treatment of PoW and the treatment of enemy soldiers once they have already lost or their chain of command is in shambles (although I guess at this point they might be considered PoW?). I haven't perused the four treaties but I'm pretty sure that those scenarios are covered under the Geneva Convention. You might argue that since he's in a different world Rimuru has no legal obligation to uphold it, and he doesn't, but if you're looking for excuses to ignore and bypass the geneva convention you're already past the moral event horizon. Revenge is not a moral right and being at war is not a moral free pass for anything and everything. And well, his ultimate goal is to become a DEMON LORD. You don't become a demon among demons by being just and good-natured, do you? |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5840 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Yuvelir
This is anime, so there are some good demon lords out there. Feeling like everyone is giving Falmuth and its King a big pass on their actions and responsibilities. Especially, on spoiler[their "common" soldiers intentions] and their King's actions. Soldiers have to surrender or be captured in order to become POW's. No one is saying Rimuru is killing POW's or enemy civilians. But perhaps the best way to discuss this is to put yourself in Rimuru's shoes. Who do you care about most, who do you want to protect most? Enemy soldiers coming to kill, murder, torture, and rape your people, and burn/raze your capital to the ground or your own people who haven't done anything to deserve this treatment and attack. This is not a war for land, not a war for oil, but a war for survival for the Tempest nation. I view enemy combatants as fair game, they are coming to do evil things. The moment the enemy soldiers crossed the border into Tempest, they signed the 'war' dotted line. They are valid targets. All of them. If this was real life, and the enemy was attacking your city, endangering your loved ones, family, and friends (and fellow citizens), would you really be thinking how you could spare the enemy, would you really be tying your hands behind your back. or would you be doing everything you can to save those important to you and your people. Hopefully the next episode will show what is entailed for a demon lord ascension. |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3653 |
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That's all well and good, but it's not what the show is presenting. That's what I'm talking about. Rimiru isn't talking about the necessity of self-defense, he's talking about who can be forgiven or not. He's not talking about preserving the nation, he's talking about redefining its relationship with humanity. He's not talking about how the soldiers have to be stopped, he's talking about consuming their souls. The thoughts on what is justified in war are irrelevant because the show treats them as irrelevant.
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Yuvelir
Posts: 1577 |
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The problem is that Rimuru's plan isn't compatible with surrenderers or desertors. If over half of that army force breaks and tries to retreat (or surreders), he would need to kill many of them anyway. And the way he formulated his action plan doesn't leave any consideration sparing any troops, even as an afterthought. He's here to collect souls to cast a spell, that they're invading and that he will protect his country in the way is just a happy coincidence. Heck, he was glad that enough troops were coming to fulfill his plan. |
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Marzan
 Posts: 515 |
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His monotone genki way of speaking really has a way of destroying any dramatic tension for me. He talks about war, resurrection and politics in the tone most people use to discuss their choice of cereal for breakfast. |
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Covnam
 Posts: 3672 |
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The repeated info and flashbacks at the beginning of the episode really dragged things there. It's clear they wanted to end the episode right before the big battle, but surely there could have been a better way to do so. It just felt like a waste of time.
As for Rimuru, I think we'll need to see what he actually does next week to see if he's more on the side of protecting Tempest and working towards acting as a deterrent to this happening again or if he's more on the side of evil cartoon demon lord. There'll be a big difference if he achieves his goals and then lets any survivors surrender or if he achieves his goals and then chases down every fleeing survivor and doesn't let a single person escape with their life even when he has the choice to.
lol, I thought about this as well when they first showed the bodies in the streets last time. "Hey, you guys might not want to just leave corpses in the streets..." But they later say that monsters turn in to magicules after they die, so I presume they don't have the usual decomposition issues that non-monster corpses have. |
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