Forum - View topicMove Over Edward — 'Frieren' Takes The Top Spot
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2426 Location: Germany |
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Frieren adapts from an inferior manga than FMAB but that anime rushed 7 volumes and its adaptation of Vol 15 and the finale too have issues. Not all short stories made it in either. Both are good shows and I gave FMAB one more point but one anime is objectively better adapted than the other. To compare a bit:
28 eps of Frieren adapt 60 chapters and it ends halfway through Vol 7. Ep 13 of FMAB stops with chapter 29, the final entry of Vol 7. That show´s pilot is anime original on top and non-canon. It´s also the show´s worst episode unless the clipshows ep counts. The definitive FMA adaption still has to be made if you ask me, especially if I consider how good some of the additions in the 2003 show were. The strengths ultimately overpower the glaring issues but I can´t say that I would put FMAB on a Top 10 TV anime of all time list though. More like Top 25. Frieren might edge in a Top 50. |
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dragonmastr
 Posts: 197 |
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Wait, what happened with MAL and Chihayafuru season 3? |
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2130 |
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Anime fans have come to prize the #1 spot on MAL so much that it's become a perfect example of Goodhart's law.
It was mentioned on Trash Taste a while back that this is one advantage the ANN rankings' much smaller profile has. (243 vs. 207,790 ratings for Frieren, 6,122 vs. 2,104,775 ratings for FMA:B, 4,881 vs. 1,389,980 ratings for Steins;Gate, etc.) Fewer data points make it maybe not as great a sample of fandom, but there's less incentive to game the system. There's a lot of divergence between the two rankings -- only 18 titles are on the top 50 for both sites. I get the sense ANN's ratings tend to come from older fans; MAL's top 50 has much more presence from big shonen and shonen-adjacent series (Attack on Titan, Gintama, Kingdom, Vinland Saga; a few entries from Bleach, Demon Slayer, Jujutsu Kaisen, One Piece), and a greater recency bias, with more 2020s titles like Kaguya-sama, BokuYaba, and Bocchi. ANN's list is more weighted to movies -- several more Ghibli movies, two Hosoda movies, and a few more that don't break top 50 on MAL -- and it includes a lot of 2000s series that MAL's doesn't, like Death Note, Baccano!, Kanon, Nodame Cantabile, Gurren Lagann, Cross Game, and FMA 2003. (Also, for some reason, three different Maria Watches Over Us titles.) Cowboy Bebop is #9 on ANN, but only #46 on MAL; Hunter x Hunter 2011 is #42 on ANN and #7 on MAL; Spirited Away is #7 on ANN and #41 on MAL. MAL voters also seem to be more generous with scores in general. Some data points for how the #N title on each site scores:
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KitKat1721
 Posts: 954 |
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Yeah echoing others here - I'm pretty certain this has already happened a few times with several anime. People already mentioned some of them like Kaguya-sama, but I also remember the final season of Fruits Basket was there for a bit.
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Glordit
 Posts: 481 |
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Started to rise to the top and the FMABots didn't like that so they made thousands of fake accounts to try and drop Chihayafurus score and rise FMAB. I even recall some youtubers telling people to vote the shows 1/10 as a meme. It had happened a few times before with other shows but never on that big of a scale. e: Here's a discussion on it: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1811115 For reference: on Anilist it's ranked at #3 with FMAB at #5. Gintama the Final and Gintama° take the top 2 spots respectively. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Huh. Maybe I'll check it out. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18210 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It's not just ratings; it's forum posts and (likely) site traffic, too. I've had the sense for at least the last 15 years that ANN probably has the oldest average age for its readership among all the major anime news/review/commentary sites, and by a fair margin. |
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funkfoot
Posts: 45 |
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I wonder if this is why a third of my MAL ratings just randomly disappeared one day randomly. I don't put much stock in internet ratings to begin with, but if a site's going to 'police' them then it makes them even more worthless since who's to say they're not going to fudge the numbers for personal reasons. "No, sorry, you didn't actually like that show" |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2316 |
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You would trust their ratings more if they made absolutely no attempt at detecting bots or large waves of votes from people riding an internet meme rather than actually watching the show and thinking about how to rate it?
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funkfoot
Posts: 45 |
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I'd love to know how they reliably prove people don't actually like or dislike a show but are just "memeing" whatever that actually entails in this instance. A bunch of new accounts that just have 1 vote for the same show is one thing, but trying to detect "internet memes" seems like an excuse to drag down shows you don't like being popular or pushing up shows people hate because they disagree. |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2316 |
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I definitely agree there are dangers in the other direction, too, yeah. It's probably quite hard to develop an approach with low false positives and false negatives. It also seems hard to justify doing nothing. A curse of their own popularity as a rating system, I guess; Goodhart's Law, like Shay Guy said above, although maybe that's exaggerating a little bit.
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Florete
Posts: 363 |
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Every ranking for anything, not just anime, does this on some level. Your MAL ratings disappearing, while strange, is likely not related, as their system wouldn't do that, it would simply not factor your score into their average. |
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Glordit
Posts: 481 |
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https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1824703 and https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1921033 |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3017 |
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Speaking as someone whose favorite anime is Maria Watches Over Us, the different seasons vary just enough to sometimes feel like completely different shows.[/b] |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1775 Location: South America |
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Frieren is truly excellent. I like it better than FMA Brotherhood which is also excellent, although I think that Frieren's last 6-7 episodes are pretty below the standard of the first 20, as it became more like a typical shounen competition show with its "exam" thingie.
But, I do think several anime titles achieve a higher standard than both Frieren and FMA Brotherhood (see my https://anilist.co/user/JoseCruz/animelist). I just re-watched Madoka Magica yesterday and that is indeed a true masterpiece, horror magical girl perfection in a diamond of just 12 episodes. Yet, its rating on MAL is just 8.36. Haibane Renmei is another masterpiece, its rated only 7.97. Usually the best anime are rated over 7.5 on MAL, but most of those shows rated very highly are rather average IMO. That is, the best anime are rather highly but together with lots of not so great stuff. |
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