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GAME: Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes Review


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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 907
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:31 am Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
Eiyuden Chronicle's localization is great when you don't have grifters who don't even speak Japanese bellyaching in your ear about it.

I will try to take your word for it, because you at least argue in good faith. I believed that about UO, too... until I got to the part where the English adaptation started inserting a bunch of heterosexist BS into certain later scenes (resulting in actual plot holes). That was probably more a perfect storm of bad workflow decisions rather than actual malice, but it's kind of a sore subject for me right now.
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Miyu115



Joined: 11 Dec 2020
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:21 pm Reply with quote
It’s kind of a lore thing that the stars of destiny be assembled, unlike games like Fire Emblem where they are more than happy to rewrite the entire event just to destroy your hopes, dreams and every pegasus knight you see. I played Suikoden 4&5 and that I remember I didn’t miss any even without a guide, but looking it up there are some groups you can miss.

So sad to hear the Switch version runs badly, as someone else who kickstarted it for two copies on the Switch so my husband and I can both play Confused
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scanlines



Joined: 18 Oct 2023
Posts: 62
Location: in time out for bad behavior
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:25 am Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
Eiyuden Chronicle's localization is great when you don't have grifters who don't even speak Japanese bellyaching in your ear about it.

I'm not trying to make this a "grifter" thing, despite what you and Wolf said. As someone who is also bilingual, mi compadre boricua, you know there can be a 1:1 translation outside of slang and idioms. Cultural/pop culture references, too. I doubt most people would get a Chavo del Ocho reference.
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Vanadise



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:26 pm Reply with quote
scanlines wrote:
there can be a 1:1 translation outside of slang and idioms.

The problem with this is that the goal of translating artwork is to preserve the intent of the author, not their words, which can be different things. There are some cases where you can just do a dictionary replacement of words in a sentence when translating Japanese to English and you'll still get a sentence that makes sense, sure, but less often than you'd hope, and what you get will often sound awkward and stilted -- and if a character was supposed to sound like they were talking in a casual, conversational tone in Japanese, then they should also sound casual and conversational in English, not like robots.

But even on top of that, text in one language can often carry implications that do not carry over into another language if translated literally, or doing so can add implications that should have never been there in the first place. One of my favorite examples of this is in Akiba's Trip, where there's a group called the "KKK Witches", which has immediate, obvious, highly negative connotations for anybody who knows anything about American history. When the English publisher asked them about it, the developers said they were completely unaware of the reference, and it was intended to be a completely innocuous acronym, so they immediately changed it, but that didn't stop the usual crowd from getting upset that the game had been censored.

There are bad localizations out there, but in general I'd trust any professional translator over some dude on Twitter who pastes out-of-context phrases into DeepL and then asserts the professional translation is wrong.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 523
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Vanadise wrote:
scanlines wrote:
there can be a 1:1 translation outside of slang and idioms.

The problem with this is that the goal of translating artwork is to preserve the intent of the author, not their words, which can be different things. There are some cases where you can just do a dictionary replacement of words in a sentence when translating Japanese to English and you'll still get a sentence that makes sense, sure, but less often than you'd hope, and what you get will often sound awkward and stilted -- and if a character was supposed to sound like they were talking in a casual, conversational tone in Japanese, then they should also sound casual and conversational in English, not like robots.

But even on top of that, text in one language can often carry implications that do not carry over into another language if translated literally, or doing so can add implications that should have never been there in the first place. One of my favorite examples of this is in Akiba's Trip, where there's a group called the "KKK Witches", which has immediate, obvious, highly negative connotations for anybody who knows anything about American history. When the English publisher asked them about it, the developers said they were completely unaware of the reference, and it was intended to be a completely innocuous acronym, so they immediately changed it, but that didn't stop the usual crowd from getting upset that the game had been censored.

There are bad localizations out there, but in general I'd trust any professional translator over some dude on Twitter who pastes out-of-context phrases into DeepL and then asserts the professional translation is wrong.


Exactly. And the exceptions Scanline made--slang and idioms--are really important because of how central they are to language. It's 100% true that someone in the US won't understand a Chavo del Ocho reference. That's why you replace it with the Dukes of Hazard or Hee-Haw instead. "You can have a 1:1 translation if you just ignore cultural context and backgrounds for the speaker!" is how you strip meaning and character out of a translation, not by changing the script so that Osaka compares Chiyo's dad to Bill Clinton instead of Prime Minister Mori.

Hell, this kind of thing is a huge deal even within the same language. Puerto Rican Spanish uses "coger" as a verb to "get" something; other regions use "coger" as a crude term for sex. Puerto Ricans call cake "bizcocho"; in Mexico, that's the term used for a vagina. This is why it's a big deal for shows to have both Latino Spanish and European Spanish dubs (which happens!).

The best way someone else put it is that only in English is Six afraid of Seven (because 7-8-9). That pun makes no sense anywhere else. Nobody wants to stop reading a paragraph to reference an author's note or look away from a subtitle to see a translators note on top of the screen to have the joke explained to them.

I'm saying this as someone who is actually undergoing classes for translator certification: weebs are the only people who think there is such a thing as a 1:1 translation.
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Blue Senpai



Joined: 30 Aug 2023
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:55 pm Reply with quote
wolf10 wrote:
I will try to take your word for it, because you at least argue in good faith. I believed that about UO, too... until I got to the part where the English adaptation started inserting a bunch of heterosexist BS into certain later scenes (resulting in actual plot holes). That was probably more a perfect storm of bad workflow decisions rather than actual malice, but it's kind of a sore subject for me right now.


I just find it funny the word 'chud' is in the game. It's so out of place and just oozes that someone working on the English version is a terminally online type since those are the only people who use that word.

Personally I found impossible to play Trials of Mana without the re-translation patch to get rid stuff like Charlotte's baby speech gimmick so I think I'll wait for something similar for Eiyuden given some of the dialog I've seen floating around.
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medicinodestiny



Joined: 16 Nov 2022
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:32 pm Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
And the exceptions Scanline made--slang and idioms--are really important because of how central they are to language. It's 100% true that someone in the US won't understand a Chavo del Ocho reference. That's why you replace it with the Dukes of Hazard or Hee-Haw instead. "You can have a 1:1 translation if you just ignore cultural context and backgrounds for the speaker!" is how you strip meaning and character out of a translation, not by changing the script so that Osaka compares Chiyo's dad to Bill Clinton instead of Prime Minister Mori.


Absolutely disagree with this stance. By this logic Dragonball Super had a bad English translation when it didn't change the Arale episode to make her Dora the Explorer or some other cartoon character since most American fans wouldn't know what Dr. Slump is. If people are really that uncomfortable at the possibility of being exposed to the existence of a Japanese Prime Minister instead of a US President then I would ask why they're watching Japanese anime to begin with.

Thankfully it seems like this kind of practice is largely retired outside the occasional extreme circumstance that might pop up in one of the rare kids dubs that still get made. I can't even recall the last time I saw a Japanese anime or celebrity reference be turned into an American one. I guess the only example I can think of would be Dragon Goes House-Hunting where they said karaage was "KFC" and everyone rightfully called Funimation out on that. But usually they leave things alone so we get Catbus and Yatterman references in Persona instead of Magic School Bus or Ben 10.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 523
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:49 pm Reply with quote
medicinodestiny wrote:
FinalVentCard wrote:
And the exceptions Scanline made--slang and idioms--are really important because of how central they are to language. It's 100% true that someone in the US won't understand a Chavo del Ocho reference. That's why you replace it with the Dukes of Hazard or Hee-Haw instead. "You can have a 1:1 translation if you just ignore cultural context and backgrounds for the speaker!" is how you strip meaning and character out of a translation, not by changing the script so that Osaka compares Chiyo's dad to Bill Clinton instead of Prime Minister Mori.


Absolutely disagree with this stance. By this logic Dragonball Super had a bad English translation when it didn't change the Arale episode to make her Dora the Explorer or some other cartoon character since most American fans wouldn't know what Dr. Slump is.


If you're going to compare a wholecloth character cameo to just an allusion to an older show, I'm going to be inclined to assume you're arguing in bad faith. That's a completely different scenario.

If you have any further complaints to make about translation, I suggest leaving them out of this thread. This thread is for discussing the Eiyuden Chronicle review, not how translation should or shouldn't work.


Last edited by FinalVentCard on Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ultimatum



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Reserving judgement until I actually play the thing but I'll laugh forever at the people complaining about Eiyuden localization being too snappy or 'woke' when I think about trying to enjoy the story in Suikoden 1 and 2 through that fog of a generic and grammatically...interesting translation.

It felt like sifting through an ancient text for some kind of meaning, just clunky as hell. And as a HUGE fan of the series (after playing 4 and 5 first and then working backwards in the series) I still feel like the Suiko 2 impact was lessened for me because of it.

A little scared about the Switch issues, but hoping they work that out so I can enjoy. Hope you all do too!
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 907
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Well, that sure escalated. Sorry. Crying or Very sad I know some of my takes on localization put me a little to the right of Attila the Hun, so I'll just, uh....

Anyway, I did as some "nice" person on the internet suggested elsewhere and switched to Japanese text because for once it's built-in and screw it, I'm already bilingual. Having the English script handy was primarily so I could talk to other people about it from a common point of reference. Now it feels like I'm playing Tales of Vesperia again on PS3 in my college dorm room. All that's missing doing live interpretation for my sister on P2. Maybe it's not the creator's intended flavor of nostalgia, but I'm having a blast. The hardest part has been cross-referencing names in English guides, but it's still easier than Inazuma Eleven. (Who the hell is "Arion Sherwind?" My son's name is "Tenma!")

The game itself is quite good, but still drops frames going in and out of menus like only Unity can, even on a decked-out gaming PC. Nowa and... *checks wiki* Seign have very strong Yuri and Flynn chemistry that I need more of. I knew they weren't going to let me keep that combo tech for long. (The Japanese voices became entirely non-negotiable once my ears picked up Gakuto Kajiwara. I have simple tastes.)
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