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Hey, Answerman! [2007-02-16]


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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Oh good, our Otakukin guru is back. I'm still waiting for an explanation:

HitokiriShadow wrote:
Let's take a few of these concepts to their logical conclusion, shall we? Some of these things our Otakukin Guru has said seem to be self defeating arguments.

So, if there is no creativity, everything someone creates MUST come from an alternate universe. But, by the same token, nothing in their universes can come from creativity etiher, they must also be coming from somewhere else. Clothing designs cannot be created, they must be drawn from some parrallel universe. Which begs the question of how it came into being. I suppose there must be some beings somewhere that just LOOK like that and they were conveniently suitable as clothing for us.

But what about jokes or songs or music itself? Those also require creativity (or, alternatively, channeling from an alternate universe) to come into being. It had to be created somewhere. Yes, jokes and songs are usually based on real events, but it takes creativity to create the jokes and songs themselves. These are not even physical existances, but they must exist somewhere in some other universe as living beings (because otherwise they would have been created and that requires creativity and an imagination). I'm finding it hard to believe that their is a universe in which songs are living creatures.


Steroid wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
kolibri wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
It's nowhere close to a record.

So what is the record, out of curiosity, and do I want to know what it was about?
I'm guessing it was the thread in response to this column from July 28th, 2006, concerning the lolicon issue. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the thread -- has the Talkback Forum been purged of old threads or something?

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26445

Dere ya go.


And that's only the record (probably) for Answerman columns and possibly the Talkback section. Several non-stickied threads in the general anime forum have exceeded it. The Haruhi Suzumiya thread (granted, its a catch all for Haruhi Suzumiya related topics) is 80+ pages and still going and I think the Higurashi thread was at least 40 pages by the time things tapered off.


Last edited by HitokiriShadow on Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Yes, I am a girl, technically at least. Razz Actually, about half of the people who believe they have been reincarnated, that I know personally, were the opposite gender in their last life...

Quote:
And you know what, I don't think you or any other otaku-kin are violent, suicidal, depressed, or retarded. I don't think that otaku-kin are going to come cause me bodily harm. If someone very sanely told me that they thought they were a reincarnation of King Arthur, I'd look at them just as strangely. It doesn't mean I wish ill on the otaku-kin community; if they want to believe they're actually anime characters reincarnated, that's fine. But what does bother me is that many of these people can't step back and realize how utterly ridiculous it sounds to the rest of us, and then start saying they're being persecuted. I don't see any otaku-kin concentration camps anywhere. So for God's sake, just learn to live with the fact that people are going to think you're strange if you say that your soul actually belonged to a cartoon character in an alternate universe. (not you specifically, overlord_mordax.)


I'd like to thank you.

See, strange I can live with. I know I'm strange, ie, not your average person. i can deal with that, I've never been what you would call average.

Its the fact that every time my little religion/subculture gets dragged into the light, some people start saying that I need to be hospitalized for my own protection, de-programmed, jailled, and whatnot that really gets my goat.
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Murasakisuishou



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 1469
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:18 pm Reply with quote
overlord_mordax wrote:
Yes, I am a girl, technically at least. Razz Actually, about half of the people who believe they have been reincarnated, that I know personally, were the opposite gender in their last life...

Quote:
And you know what, I don't think you or any other otaku-kin are violent, suicidal, depressed, or retarded. I don't think that otaku-kin are going to come cause me bodily harm. If someone very sanely told me that they thought they were a reincarnation of King Arthur, I'd look at them just as strangely. It doesn't mean I wish ill on the otaku-kin community; if they want to believe they're actually anime characters reincarnated, that's fine. But what does bother me is that many of these people can't step back and realize how utterly ridiculous it sounds to the rest of us, and then start saying they're being persecuted. I don't see any otaku-kin concentration camps anywhere. So for God's sake, just learn to live with the fact that people are going to think you're strange if you say that your soul actually belonged to a cartoon character in an alternate universe. (not you specifically, overlord_mordax.)


I'd like to thank you.

See, strange I can live with. I know I'm strange, ie, not your average person. i can deal with that, I've never been what you would call average.

Its the fact that every time my little religion/subculture gets dragged into the light, some people start saying that I need to be hospitalized for my own protection, de-programmed, jailled, and whatnot that really gets my goat.


Hey, anyone who professes to have been a character voice acted by God deserves my respect. -offers hand for shaking-
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:19 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
So, if there is no creativity, everything someone creates MUST come from an alternate universe


Well, i can't personally argue that one, as I believe there IS such thing as creativity, although some Otakukin don't, and I've been trying to repersent the otakukin "masses" (all 35 of us).

Personally, i believe that humans are very creative people, and it is merely coincidence that what people create resembles pre-existing realities. This is because no matter WHAT anyone creates, it MUST already exist, because universes/realities are infinite. Literally infinite. So that Anything that can possibley occur does. (at least that is my belief)

This does not mean the person is not creative.

ETA:

*shakes Murasakisuishou's hand*
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:27 pm Reply with quote
overlord_mordax wrote:
Quote:
So, if there is no creativity, everything someone creates MUST come from an alternate universe


Well, i can't personally argue that one, as I believe there IS such thing as creativity, although some Otakukin don't, and I've been trying to repersent the otakukin "masses" (all 35 of us).

Personally, i believe that humans are very creative people, and it is merely coincidence that what people create resembles pre-existing realities. This is because no matter WHAT anyone creates, it MUST already exist, because universes/realities are infinite. Literally infinite. So that NAything that can possibley occur does. (at least that is my belief)

This does not mean the person is not creative.
[/quote]

...... wow, did you really just type that? See, I don't have anything against believing in alternate realities as there is nothing to either prove or disprove it. I can totally understand believing that and wouldn't have the slightest problem with someone believing it. But this is.... wow. People are creative, but it just so happens that everything they create is channeled from an alternate reality. And it still begs the question of how they came into existance in the first place. If it MUST already exist somewhere, how did it come into being in the first place? In some alternate reality, the TV shirt I am wearing must have already existed.
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:31 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
People are creative, but it just so happens that everything they create is channeled from an alternate reality.


Thats the jist of the argument, but tehre's no channeling involved, Its pure chance.

Quote:
And it still begs the question of how they came into existance in the first place. If it MUST already exist somewhere, how did it come into being in the first place?


I don't pretend to know the answer to that one.

Quote:
In some alternate reality, the TV shirt I am wearing must have already existed.


Yes, including the infinite number of universes that are exactly the same as the one you're in now with only one atom movemnet's change of difference.
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championferret



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 765
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:35 pm Reply with quote
overlord_mordax, may I ask you something? I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but this has been bugging me for quite some time:
In your/other Otakukin's 'past lives', when you were Ken for example, what exactly did you look like? Do you believe you looked exactly as Ken appears in Digimon; 2-Dimensional, in 'anime-style', or do you think this other Ken looked like a normal person who bore a striking resemblance to Ken, like a particularly good cosplayer, with Digimon that looked more like realistic animals?
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:40 pm Reply with quote
Ahh...I see. When I lived in India I was told that people who were reincarnated have the same spouses for six or so lives, so I always just assumed that meant they'd be the same gender, too.

I reeeeally am not following the creativity debate at all at this point. ^^;
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
overlord_mordax, may I ask you something? I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but this has been bugging me for quite some time:
In your/other Otakukin's 'past lives', when you were Ken for example, what exactly did you look like? Do you believe you looked exactly as Ken appears in Digimon; 2-Dimensional, in 'anime-style', or do you think this other Ken looked like a normal person who bore a striking resemblance to Ken, like a particularly good cosplayer, with Digimon that looked more like realistic animals?


No offense taken, good question actually.

I believe everything looked 'normal' like this, so yes, like an exceptionally good cosplayer, black hair, slightly darker complexion...

As for digimon, well, they didn't look animated, but I wouldn't exactly say they looked normal either, after all, how can half-human beasts with mechanical parts look normal?
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Well, it would be "normal" for the digital world, anyway...wouldn't it?
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championferret



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 765
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:46 pm Reply with quote
overlord_mordax wrote:
Quote:
overlord_mordax, may I ask you something? I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but this has been bugging me for quite some time:
In your/other Otakukin's 'past lives', when you were Ken for example, what exactly did you look like? Do you believe you looked exactly as Ken appears in Digimon; 2-Dimensional, in 'anime-style', or do you think this other Ken looked like a normal person who bore a striking resemblance to Ken, like a particularly good cosplayer, with Digimon that looked more like realistic animals?


No offense taken, good question actually.

I believe everything looked 'normal' like this, so yes, like an exceptionally good cosplayer, black hair, slightly darker complexion...

As for digimon, well, they didn't look animated, but I wouldn't exactly say they looked normal either, after all, how can half-human beasts with mechanical parts look normal?

Thanks for that, you do make alot more sense than the other 'Otakukin' we've run into, then.
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Well, it would be "normal" for the digital world, anyway...wouldn't it?


Well, yes, agreed, but still not normal for a human. (Sorry if this ends up a double post)
Quote:
Thanks for that, you do make alot more sense than the other 'Otakukin' we've run into, then.
lad to hear it. Very Happy although as far as I can tell most of the "otakukin" you've run into (at least the ones detailed in this edition of Answerman) don't even self-identify as otakukin.

[EDIT: Don't double post. The "edit" button is there for a reason. Use it. ~Zalis]
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Zanafarr



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:56 pm Reply with quote
[quote="overlord_mordax"]
Quote:
I HAVE BEEN TO A PSYCOLOGIST. We discussed the fact that I believe myself to be the reincarnation of a person whose life is written about in an anime. THE DOCTOR HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THIS, AND FILED IT UNDER THE CATEGORY OF SPIRITUAL BELIEFS. He said it was no sicker than believing in god.


I wasn't asking you to debate the 'dubiousness' of your psychologist. Rather than latching onto defensiveness, could you actually answer the question I asked?

I think you'll find that it's quite a genuine point concerning your particular beliefs - be they delusions as I think, or spiritual beliefs as you think, they are beliefs nontheless and I'd appreciate your explanation to help others understand your viewpoint.

Seriously, what is your answer?
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frentymon
Forums Superstar


Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 2362
Location: San Francisco
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:02 pm Reply with quote
Ms. Otakukin here is certainly very creative. I certainly couldn't have come up with such a complicated doctrine completely outlining the rationales of (a branch of) Otakukin. Take this as you will; I'm intending it as a compliment though. Wink

Assuming what you are claiming about alternate universes is true, could it be possible that all the alternate unvierses were manifestations of your own creations? That your ideas were the equivalent of what you say to be a manga author bringing forth an entire universe from his imagination, and the entire concept of the existence of alternate universes and authors bringing about new universes from their creations came about because you desired it to be such?

Ah, gotta love Haruhiism...


Last edited by frentymon on Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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overlord_mordax



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:02 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But for an otakukin, how does that translate? I mean, if the writers are little more than passive 'chanellers', like spirit mediums for fictional characters (and how I wish that was true - no more struggling to come up with something new for the next book), how would an otakukin relate to anything about their character that they don't feel sits right?


Some Otakukin do think that writers got something 'wrong', I can't answer for them. When there is conflict between my memories and the digimon show, I believe it is simply because the world they were detailing was slightly different from the one I existed in.
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