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What do you think of moe?

Gunslinger Girl? Not moe? lol. The girls of GSG have inflamed many a poor otaku's heart with protective and obsessive passion. Ask on /a/ or 2ch, you'll be sure to get plenty of posts along the lines of "(*´Д`) RICO MOE~~~☆"

Not bothering to quote you're first statement, this can be invalidated because a different handler later said they wanted their to have an increased dosage...so a completely irrelevant point.

Scrapped does not mean killed, it means removed from the project, spoiler[and in both cases were, they were not allowed to work with said handlers in the field, thus they were scrapped]

If everyone one of those little girls had been little boys (same age ect) would you not have had the same sympathy for the circumstances they are going through? Would you not still question the validity of the "right or wrong" this series brings up any less?

I suppose it also brings up the question of moe males, but there ya have it.

Though I did not mean to contradict myself. I would say that not all of moe comes from the cuteness phenomenon but some of it does. The character design does for instance but I think the "save me I am too helpless to even get through the school day without you" personality comes from something completely different such as the japanese otaku's supposed "perfect woman" (yet many guys in anime contradict this by saying they hate useless women)

Oh and by the way I didn't just mean female moe when I started this. What are your thoughts on male moe? I guess it would be shota most of the time right.

The reason for not addressing certain issues is because of opinionated people like you, as there are enough arguments in the thread already. The kicker is your arguing over an opinion, as if opinions can be right or wrong. I should of known not to make any damn post that commented with anything you said.

Well thats easy enough to solve so go on and spout some more superficial ..... cause its gonna fall on deaf ears as far as im concerned, the only thing i have left for ya is the finger.

Now there's a brilliant way to respond to a calm and reasoned argument.

Case in point:
A popular series recently had a character undergo a drastic change in character and mentality. She went from being very smart and capable to having the mentality of an uneducated subservient preteen. I saw too many comments that went something along the lines of "Moe! Moe!" and "I never liked her before but now I'd hit it." It made me sick.

As to this:

Quote:

Case in point: A popular series recently had a character undergo a drastic change in character and mentality. She went from being very smart and capable to having the mentality of an uneducated subservient preteen. I saw too many comments that went something along the lines of "Moe! Moe!" and "I never liked her before but now I'd hit it." It made me sick.

I'd agree with you whole heartily. If an element is added to a story or character that drastically alters either, then it's gonna be a detriment to the story itself. Moe isn't the only one to have done this, but it is more common with the newer productions. As sad as that may be.

Some shows will then go to extremes and make the characters barely able to walk ten feet without tripping to make them extra vulnerable and in need of help and protection

Denying the "merit" of an artwork because we find it offensive or even because we do not personally gain any satisfaction from it, is the thin end of a wedge that leads to book burnings and concepts like Entartete Kunst. Best not to take the first step down that road. Nobody is forcing you to consume the art that you don't like, after all.

Likewise, I don't really read pornographic magazines or watch pornographic films, but I support their right to exist. How else would we know of the subtle and mysterious effect of the pizza delivery guy on the female libido?

Be careful with that line of argument. That is the exact same scientific relativism that is used to argue that Creatio- I mean, "intelligent design", should be taught in schools alongside evolution, because "Evolutionism is just a theory".

The merit? Hmm. That's an old, old argument in art. Sure, some works of art present themselves as having "merit". There's a clear and indisputable difference in artistic intent between something like Picasso's Guernica, and something like the latest issue of Hustler Magazine -- but I will argue that there is plenty of merit of a different kind in the latter, depending on the needs of the audience. Sure, the "high-falutin'" artwork is more likely to garner public acclaim, win awards, gain grant money and commissions for the artist, etcetera, but is it fundamentally "better"? If somebody finds a need served in a work of art, whether it be high discourse on the impermanence of the human condition or low appeal to the regions beneath the belt... does the work of art not have merit, then? Regardless of its nature?

Bringing this back to reality, wouldn't you rather see anime lean more in the Guernica direction and less in the Hustler Magazine direction?

einhorn303 wrote:

Gunslinger Girl? Not moe? lol. The girls of GSG have inflamed many a poor otaku's heart with protective and obsessive passion. Ask on /a/ or 2ch, you'll be sure to get plenty of posts along the lines of "(*´Д`) RICO MOE~~~☆"

I'm sure this is true to some extent, but since it's an opinion, i'll ask anyone a question about that opinion.

Question:
If everyone one of those little girls had been little boys (same age ect) would you not have had the same sympathy for the circumstances they are going through? Would you not still question the validity of the "right or wrong" this series brings up any less?

I suppose it also brings up the question of moe males, but there ya have it.

For me and my opinion, it would have been the same effect i felt for the girls had they been male. It's a tragedy in a way, and the obvious ethical questions and weight of human life are constantly being called into question in a variety of ways through out the series. The interactions on both spectrums of the girls and their handlers are also played out. In the end of the series (this is for S1 only) as they are spoiler[singing into the night (also the one whom is dying, her life spent and at its end)] the obvious question is on what end of said spectrum is the viewer sitting on.

Case in point:
A popular series recently had a character undergo a drastic change in character and mentality. She went from being very smart and capable to having the mentality of an uneducated subservient preteen. I saw too many comments that went something along the lines of "Moe! Moe!" and "I never liked her before but now I'd hit it." It made me sick.

The key point, though, is that moe is prevalent and sells because that's what people WANT, and are willing to spend money on. Pretty much all of the anime and manga I buy is motivated by the desire for moe and emotionally-sustaining depictions of innocent, carefree girls.

Before I try to answer your question, I would like to ask whether you are male or female. You don't have to answer, just think about it. For men, it might be (I believe it is) natural to feel more protective towards females than males with the same age. I can't speak for women, maybe someone else can.

So, if it had been Gunslinger Boy, would I still have felt the same?
I say partly.
Sure, I would have had sympathy for them, and sure I would have questioned the reasons for such "experiments". But the shame, the pity I felt just when I saw these girls, how they talk, what they do, and the horrible paradox between their appearance and their fighting skills would not have been that strong.
Women are always perceived as being more innocent than men, I claim. So using girls instead of boys is like a stylistic device in a poem. Of course, the poem would (probably) still be good without it, but it's impact wouldn't be as strong.
Of course, I respect your opinion and don't want to correct you or anything, I just try to explain how I feel different (Not completely, but partly) from you.

ikillchicken wrote:

Bringing this back to reality, wouldn't you rather see anime lean more in the Guernica direction and less in the Hustler Magazine direction?

Not really. When I watch anime, I want to entertained and emotionally/physically aroused. Anime is a visual medium, and it best lends itself to these visceral feelings. If I wanted to be enlightened like with a fine piece of art, I'd read a bloody book...which I do often.

Anime doesn't have to be all "LOL DEEP." In fact, I think the majority of entertainment should be the "pleasing" sort instead of the edifying sort. It's like, when you eat, you usually have beans or rice or pizza or something simple. Just something you like that fills you up. Gourmet meals and wine, like deep artistic anime, should only be a once-in-a-while thing. Moe girls and well-animated fight scenes and emotionally exploitative crying scenes, that's the real core of anime, the stuff that I buy DVD's (and BOST digital downloads) for.

The key point, though, is that moe is prevalent and sells because that's what people WANT, and are willing to spend money on. Pretty much all of the anime and manga I buy is motivated by the desire for moe and emotionally-sustaining depictions of innocent, carefree girls.

Your interest in anime is driven by moe so it is fine for you. Can you see though where those of us who have no use for moe find it disappointing to see anime increasingly try to appeal via these exploitative means rather that by being actual "quality" entertainment that appeals through traditional means?