Forum - View topicRE: L.A. Times piece
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Judau
 Posts: 247 Location: Boston, MA |
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Yes, I agree completly that "Can't we all get along" will never be possible, for anything. Perhaps it should still be the goal? Maybe not, considering there will always be diversity in opinions, which is good to have. This is why we should listen to eachother's opinions, to not make your own opinions one sided, and actually SEE the other side for what it is. Maybe it is not sides that are improtant, but understanding the different opinions, and then respect. I just don't know...
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Gai Super Napalm
 Posts: 148 Location: Hoboken, NJ |
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I tend to agree more with GATSU than disagree with him. All he ever does is complain, true, but its a lot easier to have something to complain about than to have something to praise.
Disney has doon poor jobs giving Miyazaki's work a fair chance in the united states market. I'm sure that the number of americans who don't know the name Miyazaki is probably less than 1 out of 10.. even though one of our most famous movie critics praises him to no end and one of the largest movie studios (hell, companies) in the country sells his work. I personally prefer subtitles to a dub any day, any time; even if its subbed by people who don't even know much english. It might be "a matter of personal preference", but I percieve emotion so much more honestly coming from the seiyuu than the american voice actors. For a theatric release, if they gave the audience a choice, the subtitle rooms would probably lose lots of money. And unfortunately for us, if you want parents to take their children to the latest cartoon movie that disney is putting in theaters, their small children who might not know how to read at all let alone very fast, you're going to have to dub it. If you think that's dumbing it down for the American audience, then you are *absolutely* correct. Its simply catering to the lowest common denominator. I never expect theatrical releases to be subbed (Met was a huge surprise).. and I can't really blame any of the studio's. It would be a sin to release the R2 in an english dub only format though; there are now a significant number of people in america that would *automatically* buy Sen To if it came out subtitled, and Disney would probably lose many of them if they didn't add the japanese audio track. Remember, the R1 dvd's of whatever anime it is you want are probably your only chance to ever have what you want the way you want it. If someone's complaining and you don't see why, they probably want it a hell of a lot more than you do. About japan understanding the US and american's not understanding japan, its really got to do with our culture. American's are just culturally inept, although I couldn't honestly say that the problem is entirely our fault. I have a feeling that the japanese might more about us than we do about them because 1. we are a world super-power and one of the major players on the international level, 2. we had heavy influence on their country since world war 2, and 3. our culture is invasive on others to the point it makes me sick. If you go to any country in the world, they have their own version of MTV.. and (unless its japan) they won't have their own version of tv-tokyo. Its just a fact; more people understand us because everyone is exposed to us every day through television and movies. Oh well, that was 5 dollars worth of 2 cents, so i'll leave it at that. |
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SuperSkylineGTR
 Posts: 471 Location: Chicago, IL |
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Hey Gatsu,
Lilo and Stitch was pretty cool... but that is just my opinion... besides most of disney's stuff is for kids anyway. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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I believe Star Wars is a perfect example of the effect I'm talking about. In the 70's, sci-fi was in an abismal state. There wasn't anyone thinking that movies about outer space and starships would be great hits. It took one honest effort by people who were working for the love of the genre to break it mainstream by releasing a truly superior product. And they didn't have a huge marketing budget, they didn't have all the exposure in the world. Star Wars became popular because a few people went to see it, thought it was the greatest thing they'd ever seen, and told all the people they knew about it. And so, the niche genre became popular through word of mouth. And companies who spotted the gap around Star Wars responded with equally stellar products (Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Blade Runner, etc.) The same thing can happen with anime, but only if the fans who want to see some progress made don't scream bloody murder everytime someone tries to bring anime to the masses. We all can whine about Robotech now, but when it was released it WAS anime to many of us. It took a bit of dumbing down and a bit of hack editing to bring it to the lowest common denominator, through which higher people were also reached. These people became the fans of today, the same can happen all over again. Heck, it's happening with DBZ and Pokemon as we speak. Now, there's an even greater chance for us to take. I say take it.
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GATSU
Posts: 15315 |
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Judau: "Anime in the mainstream (which I would include anything by Disney, even though they do not sell particularly well) will, at least for a while, not be to many anime fan's expectations."
I have no problem with anime being mainstream. I just think Disney does. Cassandra: "And I've seen a few good Disney movies....but you probably didn't like them because they had Disney's name on it." I like Disney movies that came out before Eisner's time, or the ones that were produced by Katzenburg or Pixar. When they pour money into garbage like Pearl Harbor, Bubble Boy, and Scary Movie, and fire animators(the foundation of Disney) for over-spending on Dinosaur and Atlantis, then I have a reason to be disgusted with the state of the company. When they edit classic Disney films on dvd, because (*gasp*) Goofy's smoking, or a black centaur in Fantasia is shining someone's shoes, then I have a reason to be disgusted with the state of the company. When they make unnecessary sequels to the classics, then I have a reason to be disgusted with the state of the company. And when they charge me $14 bucks per ticket, in order to see films like Lilo and Stitch and The Country Bears in my area, just because they have exclusive deals which allow them to play Disney films at the El Capitan, then I have a reason to be disgusted with the state of the company. I liked Disney the man, not the soul-less mega-conglomerate his business has become. "They announced the cities, just not which particular theaters it'll be in." Exactly. No theaters. When Princess Mononoke came out, they had a specific schedule for the film on the official site. Now nausicaa.net has to report when and where the film is playing, because the official Spirited Away site doesn't have any listings. Gai: "I have a feeling that the japanese might more about us than we do about them" Their superior test scores seem to prove that. :) |
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Slim Shinji
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 263 |
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Wow. Didn't think I'd actually be agreeing with you on something...but Amen to that! 
I aslo agree with your comments regarding Disney's policy towards their Hong Kong movie properties. While I DO feel they're treating Spirited Away respectfully, they show absolutely no concern for the artistic integrity of Jackie Chan's or Jet Li's films (and yes...Chan and Li have both produced kung-fu movies with serious artistic merit!), making extensive, unecessary edits and NEVER including the original language track on their DVDs (despite my earlier comments I see no good reason why original language tracks should not be included on a DVD release!). The only HK release I think they handled well was Legend of Drunken Master/Drunken Master II...and I think that's solely due to Jackie Chan's direct involvement. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Good Lord, why does this ALWAYS HAPPEN?!?
WHENEVER an anime of any sort is released in some format other than our precious bilingual DVDs which feature nifty features and crisp, 5-dollar bills in each case, people complain. I mean, GOD FORBID a big company should spend a lot of money and time on a really great piece of film and try to get it ACTUALLY SEEN by people other than us dorks who may, I don't know, ENJOY IT. Spirited Away sounds like a wonderful film, and if Disney ONLY marketed towards us fanboys, it would be wasted on us. Because it would not be accessible to anyone else. They're making plenty of concessions for our sake as it is, and I think the dual sub/dub print rotation they're doing is a great idea. (BTW, I'd expect to find the dub in big multiplexes and the sub in the more artsy, independant theaters.) I've been hearing conflicting reports on the dub, but I think, from the trailer, that it sounds okay. On Disney: Why are they the most reviled movie company in the world? WHY? They're just like every other movie studio/media mogul in this country as far as I'm concerned. Or is it just because you people want to sound 3DGY and provocative by hating a big company for no discernible reason other than "I don't like their movies"? Yeah, RAGE AGINST TEH MACHINE!!1!11!! Edit: GATSU, the only known print to still contain the black centaur in Fantasia was the original print used in it's roadshow distribution in 1941. All subsequent prints have had the black centaurs edited out due to NAACP protest. I LIEK DISNEY CARTOONSES |
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Slim Shinji
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 263 |
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Because for over 50 years Disney was run by people who were genuinely interested in making quality cinema, and not by people who are willing to exploit things to death for the sake of money and money alone. There is no love or respect for animation in Disney's mindless parade of direct-to-video sequels, and with the glorious exception of Lilo & Stitch all their recent theatrical offerings have been formulaic and uninspired. I don't "hate" Disney....anyone who actively "hates" a movie studio has some serious issues...but it sucks to see a once-great studio fall to such artistic lows. |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Why do you think they are formulaic and uninspired? |
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Jlbkwrm
Old Regular
Posts: 94 |
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Okay. I know Disney wasn't horribly proud of The Emperor's New Groove, and I know it kind of underperformed at the box office, but I don't think it's fair to slap it with the label of "uninspired". Formulaic, I'll give you, since the plot has been done-to-death. But the tone, the visual style, and the self-aware humor makes it one of the most pleasant and rewatchable Disney films I've ever seen. Not that the quality of recent Disney films has anything to do with Spirited Away. But, hey, I love the freaking movie. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15315 |
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Byron: As I said earlier, and keep saying, I have no problems towards dubs; it's just Disney's lack of respect for American audiences' intelligence is what appalls me. Not that I have any problems with all films that appeal to the lowest common denominator,(I was a fan of many of the Farrelies' films up until Me Myself and Irene.)but when studios create this perception that we as a public can't enjoy something with depth, because we're all ADD-afflicted cretins, then I feel insulted. In fact, I agree with Zac that the Spirited Away dub was well-done; but that's how a dub of an anime film should be done. Not re-dubbing the music like in Princess Mononoke, or adding to the score like in Laputa. Not changing the cultural context("donkey piss") just so we're able to appreciate the meaning more.
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Slim Shinji
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 263 |
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Because after the success of The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, and Aladdin it seemed as if Disney felt bound to duplicate the structural pattern of those movies regardless of what the story material demanded. They HAD to include the "I want" song, the "love song", the "wacky sidekick" song, every protagonist HAD to have at least one said wacky sidekick, no matter how forced or out-of-place it was. Hunchback would have been a great film had it not been chained to those self-imposed rules, as would have Mulan. Tarzan comes close, but it can't quite shake the "Disney formula" (i.e. Rosie O'Donnell & Wayne Kinght's characters). Hercules was just Aladdin regurgitated, even the film's directors will admit that (they were pretty much forced to make it). And Pocahontas was just flat-out bad.
Emperor's New Groove is admittedly not in the traditional Disney mold, though it was originally intended to be as such. The film was reportedly such a mess it was practically redone from the ground up with an entirely different crew at the eleventh hour. Considering the movie is basically a salvage-attempt, I think they did a good job. It's just not a personal favorite of mine. DISCLAIMER: All this is of course One Man's Opinion! |
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Good points, Shinji
 I was just curious why you felt that way
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Cgoten
Posts: 390 Location: Glenview, Illinois |
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Not to do anything crazy like 'get (kinda) on topic' but my brother said he saw a commercial for Spirited Away on FOX, I didn't see it though. =( I'm determined to see it!
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GATSU
Posts: 15315 |
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Shinji: Everything after the Lion King was worked on by someone else, not Katzenberg. Katzenberg sued Disney, because Disney ripped him off after he helped make them the multi-billion dollar franchise they are today. Eisner refuses to acknowledge the importance of Disney's animators, and will do anything it takes to rip them off so he can pay himself a bigger bonus each year. In addition, Eisner's constantly trying to avoid paying the family of the creator of Winnie the Pooh for every new product that comes out for that franchise. (The family recently sued the company for not paying them copyright fees for home video and dvd sales.)
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