Forum - View topicSeries that declined in quality or jumped the shark.
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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I have an impression that decline in quality is unavoidable when it comes to long-runners. It always come- the moment when you feel that author don't have anything more to say and it would be better to finish that gracefully, without turning into disaster.
In M&A world it usually affects the former one, since mangas tends to run for years as long as anybody buys it. I rarely catch the moment when the manga start to not to please me as it used to. For Kuroshitsuji it become clear with spoiler[zombies], for Deep Love the beginning of Reina story, for Galaxy Express1/3 of the TV series. In M&A I've never seen the other face of this trope Jumpring the shark- The Moment that makes reader to gave a divorce with story at once. Have you ever? |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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Death Note really went downhill after spoiler[L died.] I never liked the show much, but I have read all of the manga, and there is just so much text that it makes reading a chore. Case in point: spoiler[the wordy descriptions of the executives during the Yotsuba arc.] I mean, come on! Just end it already!
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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And okay, I'll mention Princess Tutu now, and get it out of the way, since it's likely to be first on most people's minds reading the header:
The story basically over after Ep. 13, and nowhere to go in the second season except to dismantle the happy fairytale ending, turn it dark and threatening, spoiler[kill off] Edel and replace with a generic Cute Kid, and basically turn a stylized kids' show into a downbeat metaphysical mindbender with ruminations about tragic endings. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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EricJ, a lot of shows are light(er) in their first halves before turning dark(er) at the halfway point. It rarely indicates not having anywhere to go but dark. Instead, the first half is designed to set up the plot, build the world, and - often through humour - endear the characters to us. Once these foundations are in place the story is ready to take on a more serious tone and really twist those thumb-screws.
I think Princess Tutu was planned right from the start that it would end up dark, but it just made sure to get us hooked first before putting the characters through the wringer. Story-wise, it wanted to put a spin on the traditional fairy-tales but had to utilise them first, just like PMMM had to (initially) be a normal Magical Girls show in order to deconstruct the genre. Anyone else agree with me? |
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dragon695
 Posts: 1377 Location: Clemson, SC |
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Oh, there are so many to mention. I think, however, I will touch on a series which is a bit of a cult hit, like Tatami Galaxy. Yes, the series Mawaru Penguin Drum certainly qualifies as a series I felt work way too hard on eschewing a post-modern feel that it forgot it was supposed to be telling a story. Seriously, by episode 20 I had to drop this series because I was sick and tired of trying to decipher the meaning behind every little thing. It reeked of a pretentious arthouse film: all style and little substance. I know there was supposed to be a unifying theme or message about society, but it was lost in a wash of symbolic nonsense. My patience having worn to the bone, I must say that by episode 20 I was ready to bid adeiu for the first time ever (I always finish a series if I've watched that many episodes). Yes, PingDrum jumped the shark, but being such a convoluted mess, it is hard to say when.
When I compare PMMM to PingDrum, the difference is as clear as night and day. The former was compact and coherent, while still providing compelling symbolism and message. The latter failed miserably. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Mawaru Penguindrum wasn't bad, some interesting stuff lay behind the symbolism. But you're right, a lot of it does come off as pretentious at times, the narrative so keen on coming up with symbols it often forget to be properly coherent.
However, I would argue the show was always like that, right from the first episode where the two 'children' talk like they're octogenarian philosophers. So I don't think Mawaru Penguindrum really qualifies as declining in quality or jumping the shark, because the series never did anything different from start to finish. What we got at the end was what we had at the start. The only difference was that as the episodes rolled by my patience did wear thin and the series lost a lot of lustre when it became clear that it would remain stubbornly abstract and bizarre. I wanted the show to cut the crap and stop treating the characters as mere mouthpieces for the various themes and the director's philosophies. So basically, what changed was not the series but your expectations and enjoyment. That's how I see it. |
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Maidenoftheredhand
 Posts: 2633 |
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Princess Tutu's second half was even stronger for me. It's last 4 episodes are one of my favorite series finales ever.
As for Penguindrum I do agree it's second half was weaker but I don't really think it "jumped the shark". As DTM said what it was going for was right there from the beginning and without spoiling anything there were clues in the first episode of where the finale would lead. Also if anyone watched Utena you should have known it would get darker in the 2nd half. That being said as much as I enjoyed Penguindrum I think Ikuhara tried to accomplish too much with it and he didn't entirely pull it off. Some characters get developed and some got sidelined and there were too many plot lines for its own good. I didn't mind the symbolism though and even loved how it tied into Night on the Galactic Railroad (I realize that type of thing isn't for everyone but that doesn't mean the series was bad). Anyways for me a series that went down hill was Durarara . I thought the first half was brilliant but then the second half with all the one dimensional gangs happened and the series just lost my interest completely. I also definitely agree about Death Note. |
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Lycosyncer
Posts: 526 |
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This is too easy for me, if there were any anime series I've seen where it declined in quality and jump the shark at the same time, it's definitely Bleach.
Reasons are easy... spoiler[ 1) The character derailment of Orihime in the Hueco Mundo arc where she went from "I am tired of feeling weak, I want to get stronger." to "PLEASE SAVE ME, KUROSAKI-KUN!" 2) The endless fights and trolling by Aizen to the point that it just made everything predicable, unbearable and worse, not even enjoyable. 3) The revelation of Aizen knowing everything about Ichigo since he was born is in which I find contrived. 4) The way the final battle between Ichigo and Aizen was set up was VERY anti-climatic and the fact that Aizen didn't die when he was defeated was awful. 5) The pointlessness of the Fullbringer arc including a humiliating defeat for Rukia by Riruka of all people, 6) The way that all of the Soul Reapers are easily defeated by the Vandenreich despite claiming that they're suppose to much stronger in the 17 month time skip but I am not convinced 7) Last but certainly least is the god awful revelation that Ichigo's mother Masaki is a Quincy and has unleashed a whole lot of plot holes to this horrible idea that I can't believe Kubo went through with it.] The reason why I am still with it is because I am still a fan of the Soul Society arc where the series was at its best and plus, I am curious to see how the series will end because with this series becoming a huge train wreck by the minute, I can't help but be curious to see where Kubo will go to destroy what was once a decent series and I am hoping that Kubo will not disappoint with the ending and be at least decent but I am not holding my breath. I spent a lot of time getting invested into this series's characters, universe and story since the very beginning and it's really painful to see what was once a pretty good and decent series fall into a horrible slump such as what's currently right now. Last edited by Lycosyncer on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3887 Location: New York state. |
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Probably the most recent case of a decline in series quality for me came from Eureka 7 AO. Series started off promising with the premise of Eureka's son Ao trying to discover his mother's whereabouts, some complicated military and political conflicts between foreign countries and dealing with creature threats with LFOs.
However by the show's second half, things start going downhill quick when the show introduces its spoiler[time travel] plot device which makes things convoluted with the plot, the show getting in the annoying habit of creating plot twists that don't really lead anywhere and seem thrown together just to troll the audience at many points, it doesn't properly flesh out its character relationships as well as the original series ( ex: Naru and Ao are implied to have been childhood friends, but series seems to ignore this element to a great extent in later episodes) and the rather mean-spirited ending that seemingly makes the entire concept of the series pointless. It's no wonder Eureka 7 AO was one of my biggest disappointments for this year. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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[logic loop=repeat]Uh.... Wait, what? .... Huh?[/logic loop] *CRASHBURN!* I rarely ever hear the opinion that the second half is worst than the first - and the only people I really hear this from are spoiler[those who wanted to see Princess Tutu and Mytho get together], not because of a weakened story. Not that such opinions don't exist, but the majority of people who like Princess Tutu tend to like the second half just as much if not more than the first half. Like Maidenoftheredhand, I thought the second half was stronger than the first (though the last two episodes of the first were pretty damn amazing). And I can't tell you how many times I've rewatched the last 4 episodes, which still make me tear up even after seeing them 10+ times. They are the best damn parts of the series. |
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4750G
 Posts: 546 |
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EireformContinent, did you finish Kuroshitsuji's spoiler[zombie arc]? Admittedly, it seemed kind of forced given the supposed setting of the story, but it has its good points. spoiler[I personally liked the revelation of Elizabeth's excellent swordsmanship, the Undertaker being portrayed as the villain, and Sebastian's side story on the early stages of his and Ciel's relationship.] The second season of the Kuroshitsuji manga, which up to this day I still refuse to believe ever happened, is more of a disappointment than any manga arc can ever be, in my opinion.
I have to agree with Lycosyncer about Bleach. Everything after Aizen was just blah. The succeeding arcs (both manga and anime) added nothing to the story nor did they show any development with any of the characters in my opinion. The current (and thankfully last) manga arc is very sloppily done. The only message this arc is telling me is that Ichigo is the strongest person in the world. What the hell. The thing is, even when a long running anime/manga hits a slump, or even if the decline in quality seems to be something that is never going to be remedied, I find it hard still to just drop the title. The time I've invested watching all those episodes and reading all those volumes weighs a lot more to me. I can't help but be curious about the ending of the anime/manga as well, so I just can't stop even if I cringe at every scene. |
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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EricJ--
For what it is worth, I agree with dtm42, Maidenoftheredhand and willag. In my opinion, we are just going to have to agree to disagree -- respectfully, of course!  After all, in the end is that not our only recourse?
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I had no intention of doing this, but I happened to be searching for something entirely unrelated and ended up seeing this, so against my intentions and better judgement, I have to reply! I’m sorry, Princess Tutu does that to me for some reason. I have no training in or knack for analysis, I’m not even usually interested in it, but I can’t help myself when it comes to this show, so please bear forgivingly with me. I think that the change in tone and style halfway through was intentional and clever. Without the second half, I don’t think that many people would remember Princess Tutu, much less go as bazonkers for it as some do. It’s closer to growing the beard than to jumping the shark, even if only Drosselmeyer had a beard, although Fakir would probably have been pretty sexy with a goatee… Oh my… this show does do funny things to me. The first time I saw it, I wondered if it indeed had been meant to end at episode thirteen, but been unexpectedly continued. When I watched it a second time, which Princess Tutu very much rewards, I noticed things that made it clear that the second half had been planned out, although I do have a faint suspicion that episode thirteen might have been a ‘just in case’ episode that could serve as a series rather than just season finale, a little like “The Devil’s Hands Are Idle Playthings” from Futurama. I concede, however, that this makes the transition a touch inelegant. It’s my own nature that I struggle to comprehend the idea of something becoming a, “a downbeat metaphysical mindbender with ruminations about tragic endings,” is a bad thing, but I subsist on a steady aural diet of Tom Waits and The Mountain Goats with hints of Nick Cave and Leonard Cohen for spice, so I would. I believe that Princess Tutu is fundamentally and ultimately an optimistic story, but leans heavily on darker themes to turn the contrast up and make that optimism show clearer. My interpretation has long (well, since I saw it in September) that Princess Tutu is a subversion of fairy tales, so it needs its more conventional fairy tale first half so it can subvert it in the second. I might be misreading things or trapped in my own narrative, but what I saw in Princess Tutu were elements of fairy tales not working or not being used. Rather than being used heroically, violence is mostly eschewed, unsuccessful or corrupting. (e.g. spoiler[Fakir barely gets anywhere while he swinging around a sword and a acts like kind of a jerk too, but makes real accomplishments and becomes a better person when directs his exertions to writing]) Romance is not shown as the consequence of fate and roles, but on sincerity and choice. (e.g. spoiler[Rather than Duck supplanting Rue in Mytho’s affections, Rue and Mytho’s romance is ultimately affirmed, but only after it has been revealed that it has real, emotional motivations, while Duck ultimately gets a deep friendship, but not romantic entanglement with Fakir.*]) Princess Tutu shows us what the rules of the game are, then tells us that you can’t really win if you play by them. I think that you’re underselling Uzura. I recoiled reflexively at her the first time she appeared. I don’t do cute. But I ended up taking a liking to the little scamp. Of course, she’s the lynchpin of one of my favorite scenes (It gets to me every time), so that endears her to me. Even so, I think that there’s a little more to her. Edel was spoiler[a puppet that Drosselmeyer used to guide the story], but Uzura was deeply innocent free actor who ended up spoiler[undoing Drosselmeyer’s machinations]. Maybe Edel was cynicism while Uzura was sincerity. I don’t know, I'm even more out of my depth than I am my mind, but I feel like there’s more to her. And I apologize, EricJ, if I seem to be piling on. Don’t mind me, even if what you wrote sent my mind rattling into action, within a few sentences you were just an innocent bystander to my out of control intellectual atrocities. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And since it’s terrible form not to contribute a title myself, I’ll say that Key the Metal Idol jumped the shark with its fourteenth ‘episode’, which actually film-length. I loved the first thirteen episodes of Key the Metal Idol and I recommend it very highly on the strength of those, but the last two episodes just flopped and died in my eyes. I’m pretty sure that they had run out of money and written themselves into a hole, so the ending was jerry-rigged. The problem with episode fourteen is that despite some cool imagery and strong scenes, a very large part of it is two of the characters sitting on a bench explaining the plot. Thirteen episodes of mystery, cryptic hints and some surprisingly interesting characterization build our expectations up to just about the most inelegant, unsatisfying and uninteresting explanation of what was going on possible. It also suffered from the classic problem of the revelations to all that cool mysterious stuff just can’t live up to the anticipation that was built up. The last episode was badly tainted by not seeming very strong itself, the aftertaste of all that exposition being forced down my throat like they were going to make my liver into narrative foie gras and the fact that it puts the female characters out of action so the dudes can save the day. If you know me, you know that’s not what I’m looking for. I still recommend Key the Metal Idol, but you need to know what you’re being set up for. All right, that’s enough naughtiness from me. *slips the one ring back on* *Duck accomplishes her goals and cements a friendship, but doesn’t become entangled in romance, hmmmm, I wonder if that helps to explain why a certain somebody loves the series so. Last edited by Surrender Artist on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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I don't care, they still spoiler[killed off] Edel, and brought in that annoying kid! 
(Wasn't even high priority for the network anymore, if they just cut it to fifteen-minutes segments in an anthology slot.) |
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Animeking1108
Posts: 1244 |
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One Piece- After Alabasta, the series just dragged on. When I got to arc before the time skip, they could have spoiler[killed Ace in a few chapters] and we would have missed little plot points.
InuYasha- Once season 3 hit, and the show became incredibly repetitive. Negima- The Magical World arc. It took three years for that long, boring story arc to end, but after about a year and a half, I lost interest. By the time it ended, I have lost interest in the series. Naruto (anime)- The manga is still decent, but I disowned the anime quicker than you could say Star Wars. After nearly two years of godawful filler, "Shippuden" turned into "Dragon Ball Z" by making key moments drag on. Not to mention the utter derailment of Naruto and Sakura's characters. Of course, I've bitched about filler too much that I'm just beating a dead horse, resuscitating it, killing it again, and started beating it again. |
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