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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:17 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:

This is a relatively recent development, and we still get plenty of "comedy lesbians" (Kuuko, Kuroko).


It's not a relatively new development, unless you think nearly twenty years is recent.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3137
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:44 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
I've read through 5 pages now, and absolutely NO mention of Aoi Hana. Not even once.

IMO, that is a "true" yuri title (in the traditional. old-school sense), but for some reason no one pays any attention to it. It sold poorly in Japan, unfortunately, which may be the #1 reason we see so little yuri over here. Unless the supposed "yuri" is hentai for het men, it doesn't sell. Maybe some of the male yuri fans here could tell me why Aoi Hana didn't measure up for them. I am very curious about this, as I thought the show was excellent.


It was because the topic was diverted away from yuri to hentai, and from hentai to fan-written porn. At that level, repeating "but that's just porn ~ "Hawt Lezbor girl on girl action" in animated porn is just being porn, there's nothing particularly yuri about it," does not give the most obvious springboard to talking about Aoi Hana.

I loved Aoi Hana, watched it streaming on Crunchyroll, bought the volume released on JManga before JManga shut down, and if I ever catch up with my months past due student loans, am going to plop down my $30 to buy the Lucky Penny release.

The anime market is the tip of the iceberg in the Japanese industry, and while there are large enough yuri niches to sustain ongoing manga and light novel releases, it is obviously not large enough to sustain many releases in the far more expensive area of anime. You kind of either need something that will get enough of the otaku buying it to break even on home video and premium merch sales, or a real big print seller for the publisher to justify subsidizing the anime to support increased print and low-end merch sales.

Quote:
Viki has the old Dear, Brother shojo anime streaming, which has strong yuri themes.

Yes, a wonderful shojo classic, and with much stronger yuri themes than the classic "female prince" series that they also have, Rose of Versailles, which established themes that much following yuri work has drawn on, but which does not contain those yuri themes itself. For works with strong yuri themes that RoV has influenced, you don't have to go past Revolutionary Girl Utena.
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Miss Kalle



Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for reminding me that Samurai Champloo really was almost a decade ago. I feel ancient now. Sad
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Mad_Scientist



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 2313

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:40 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
tuxedocat wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:

????

I don't follow?


....that (today) it is produced and perceived as het-directed fanservice/porn.


Because it is?

Can you guys stop propping up Yuri as this wonderous genre that's filled with amazing stories?

God this is why I hate yuri fans. You already are priveleged enough compared to us yaoi fans, do you really need more?


Could you stop acting like it's some plague on anime then? The existence of yuri is not the reason for lack of yaoi, or the bad reputation yaoi fans have among some parts of the fandom. Railing against yuri won't get more yaoi released, and this "us vs them" mentality you seem to have is pointless and annoying.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6103

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:30 pm Reply with quote
musouka wrote:

Really? Yuri couples given serious emotional weight by the narrative are exceedingly rare? Yes, perhaps when compared to mainstream heterosexual couples.


That's pretty much what I was talking about. In absolute numbers, they are slightly above non-existent.

Quote:
But the fact remains that "yuri" is much, much more likely to be taken seriously as a dramatic device, and BL is not.


Right, I don't disagree with that.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:24 pm Reply with quote
Seriously, yuri and yaoi aren't in competition /at all/, and to act like they are is just bizarre.

Het is the enemy.
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rinmackie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 910
Location: in a van! down by the river!

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:34 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:


rinmackie wrote:
Actually, tuxedocat, there is quite a bit of explicit yaoi anime out there, just most of it is never licensed over here. And what there is here can be hard to find. Try looking on Youtube; you'll find quite a lot of it there.


Really? --- maybe we have different ideas about "explicit". I'm talking about the same level as the Viewfinder or Crimson Spell manga. I have never seen yaoi anime adaptations that explicit.


Yes, really! Speaking of Viewfinder, i recently discovered it on Youtube with subtitles, if I recall correctly. Along with lots of other explicit yaoi.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 3666

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:01 pm Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:

This is a relatively recent development, and we still get plenty of "comedy lesbians" (Kuuko, Kuroko).


It's not a relatively new development, unless you think nearly twenty years is recent.


I guess it's getting relatively more frequent would be more appropriate. From 2 years ago to now we had Horizon, Bodacious Space Pirates, and Psycho Pass which featured a legitimate yuri couple as side characters, and this season supposedly spoiler[Attack on Titan has one with Ymir and Christa.]
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feuerwerke



Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Seriously, yuri and yaoi aren't in competition /at all/, and to act like they are is just bizarre.

Het is the enemy.


Actually, homophobia is the enemy. Why do you think spoiler[Homura never told Madoka she loved her? And Kyoko never told Sayaka she loved her either?] Because if they did, Japanese TV stations prooobably would refuse to air it or something. Or they'd lose otaku fans who are deluded into thinking the girls are all straight (yes, a lot of Madoka fans DO think that, shockingly).

Honestly that's the root of the issues both genres face.

Also offtopic a bit here but I really wish people would stop assuming yuri is primarily for men. It's not. It's for women. Actually in Japan it's mostly straight women who enjoy yuri. The way dating and romance and such in Japan is structured is stressful and the fantasy of not having to deal with it via being with a girl is appealing to some Japanese women.

Also, if Japan really wanted to impress me, they'd animate Girlfriends.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:53 pm Reply with quote
feuerwerke wrote:
Because if they did, Japanese TV stations prooobably would refuse to air it or something.


>_> you're thinking of American channels, not Japanese channels.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:58 pm Reply with quote
feuerwerke wrote:

Actually, homophobia is the enemy.


Not detecting a facetious statement is also the enemy.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4141

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Also offtopic a bit here but I really wish people would stop assuming yuri is primarily for men. It's not. It's for women. Actually in Japan it's mostly straight women who enjoy yuri.


I'd like to see some actual proof of this.

Ugh, yuri has already stolen so much from us yaoi fans, do you really have to steal our main demographic too? Christ.
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EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:21 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Brian wrote:
Just for benchmark's sake, Kids on the Slope started airing in April of last year - meanwhile, Sentai had the whole thing on DVD and Blu Ray earlier this week. Not bad, says I.


And given that they eff'ed up the Blu-Ray authoring, maybe they should have waited a bit longer and not rushed things. Don't get me wrong; with all Anime I want the home video release out as soon as possible. But not if it's going to be a shoddy product made too hastily and without proper quality control.


That's pretty much all Sentai Releases. Anime hyper I am kidding, but they do tend to have sub-par dubs and very bare-bones releases, and occasional general packing problems.
___

Anywho, in regards to the the "yaoi vs yuri" debate, I do tend to notice far more BL/yaoi manga compared to yuri. As far as anime though, there isn't a whole lot out there for either. Aoi Hana and Kannazuki no Miko is out there for yuri fans, but beyond that, not much. There are a couple yaoi titles out there for the girls, but I don't take note (being a straight guy, it kinda just flies under my radar). Really both are deprived anime wise, it shouldn't be a war.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6103

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:
Also offtopic a bit here but I really wish people would stop assuming yuri is primarily for men. It's not. It's for women. Actually in Japan it's mostly straight women who enjoy yuri.


I'd like to see some actual proof of this.

Ugh, yuri has already stolen so much from us yaoi fans, do you really have to steal our main demographic too? Christ.


I'd like to see proof of you assertion there. That's absolutely insane.

So I guess it was you yaoi fans stealing all our English language yuri manga?
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:

I'd like to see some actual proof of this.


You mean other than repeatedly stated demographic data from the major yuri periodicals?

Sure, I'll bet you think the publishers of Yuri Hime are lying, just to oppress YOU.

Quote:
Ugh, yuri has already stolen so much from us yaoi fans, do you really have to steal our main demographic too? Christ.


What, precisely, has "yuri" stolen from you?
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