Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Yurikuma Arashi
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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This is just a passing comment, but as someone who hasn't watched Utena and intends to do it soon, I'd appreciate if randomly specific plot points from the series weren't sprinkled in every Yurikuma review. I imagine people who plan to watch Penguindrum would like that too. I get there's a lot of common ground and symbolism in Ikuhara shows that you may want to bring up, but I find it a little upsetting that these random tidbits of specific information are all over the place, I think such comparisons would be better placed in the comments, with appropriate spoiler tags. I'm hesitant about reading more of these reviews for fear that a huge spoiler is going to pop up and ruin the experience for me, please take it into consideration. |
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justsomeaccount
Posts: 471 |
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I found the comedy in this episode with Ginko really bad. One fantasy is one thing, more fantasies that are aware that you saw the previous ones is other thing, but here she had like three or four with the same duration of ten/fifteen seconds and punchline ("it's all her imagination! hahaha! comedy gold~") without variation between one and another. At least with the fraticide attemps the punchline was seeing other different ways to kill her brother each time more brutally (and fast) and how the frustration keeps acumulating in Lulu, here no, it's repeating the same joke three times and that's it.
Oh, they don't stop saying that Kureha killed the bear from episode 3 even though they only show her bandana being broken and her body just goes into the air and never seen again without seeing the bullet in her head like the previous bear. I hope when she comes back nobody praises it as "surprising" or "(kuma) shocking". And I thought Kaoru's plan against Kureha was "making her forget about Sumika and being invisible", which at least would bring a less villanous view to the classmates because you could think they just want Kureha to be like them instead of just bullying her forever, but nop, extrems. Yawn. Meh, the show really is not for me because I don't find it good at all. Except episode 4, but even then I'm surprised by how praised as a masterpiece is, it wasn't bad and it had a few laughs but the story was pure cliche "person hates other for X reason [= royal position] but when he/she gets rid of him/her then realizes that he/she's not happy and appreciated the other for Y reason [= love]" where you know the ending from the start. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 647 |
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I think it's pretty disrespectful to the work to forcibly ignore it's roots. Especially so in the case of Ikuhara, as the reviews have shown how much can be drawn from them. Also to ignore them in the name of spoilers for works that are now four and NINETEEN years old is, I'm sorry, but pretty selfish. Think about how ridiculous it is to ask not only other readers to read a split review in the comments, but to the reviewer to essentially have to write out two reviews, of which the one with the most work put into it would be buried in comments. The detailed reviews are great and to ask to dumb them down for such a reason seems pretty unreasonable. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I may be a bit dense about this, but I am having a hard time figuring out what this "status quo" of which you speak actually is. There ain't no guys there, and if their were I doubt any of them would last two days. Grr. I would have said "asexist" (is that a word?) rather than heterosexist. Or have I missed something? |
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iatheia
Posts: 130 |
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I do find it interesting that in Ginko's imagination, Kureha essentially acts like Lulu.
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Pipe down, mate, just because a show's been out for a while doesn't mean it's okay to throw spoilers all over the place without any warning. Not everyone has watched everything that ever came out, that's basic. I'm done with people saying "because this show is X years old it's OK to not spoiler-tag this crucial bit of spoiler information." you're the people ruining shows for everyone else who didn't watch them the moment they first aired in JPTV This particular review revealed very specific information about Utena: her relationship with Akio and the truth about the school. I don't know how relevant this information is, but surely there's a better way to make the comparisons or talk about Ikuhara's specific pathos without spelling out the whole plot of his other series. I don't see other reviewers going into detail about the creators' previous works either. Paul Jensen never makes any mention of Shinbo's or Mari Okada's previous works in comparison to Gourmet Girl. Reviews of Urobuchi's shows don't throw around information of his other series, even though comparisons could be drawn there too -you wouldn't find a Madoka spoiler in a Fate/Zero review, or viceversa-, would you say that's disrespectful? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Gabriella to refrain from giving specific details or revealing plot points about Ikuhara's other shows in consideration of all the people that *gasp* have not watched them and hope to watch them (unbelievable as it may sound) without having the entire story spoiled to them. |
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Selipse
Posts: 216 |
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I've watched Utena and Penguindrum, but when I read these reviews I can't help but worry about the people who haven't watched them. Spoilers of other series should never be mentioned in reviews just like that. However, I agree that there is great value in comparing YKA to Ikuhara's other works. I think that any mention of Penguindrum and Utena should be made after the actual review, either just before or after the score, with proper spoiler tags (big enough header with a bold font saying which series it's spoiling and black bars or invisible text that needs to be highlighted). |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
Posts: 647 |
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First aired. Nineteen years. Totally the same. I'm nowhere close to advocating that someone should spoil something even close to the air date or even for a time frame after a show has run it's course. The idea that someone should have to tread on eggshells for someone that hasn't found the time to watch a show years after the fact is ridiculous. I thought I was pretty polite about saying that the first time, but since you took that as a slight I'll be blunt. It's one thing to spoil the ending of a movie after someone mentions they haven't seen it in casual conversation, but this isn't that. This is a written review that is clearly not meant for you if you are taking issues with the way it's written. Pretending you're speaking for a majority of people due to your own general selfishness is pretty appalling. I'd imagine the majority of people of haven't seen Utena or Penguindrum by this point would have the self-realization that they should either A) get to it before reading more of these reviews or B) Have the common sense to realize that their feelings are clearly not the priority over more informative reviews. All that said I'm pretty sure ANN is smart enough to have a general idea on what a decent time frame for spoilers is, and that any further hyperbolic nonsense can be disregarded. Until then maybe you can complain about Gundam spoilers in the Build Fighter's thread, or is 36 years where you call it okay? Selipse: Re-read the reviews. Notice how the information given is written into them. The details from the other shows is given while discussing the relevant parts of the episode. They're not a list of bullet points that can simply be placed at the bottom. Even ignoring the time frame asking for a review to be split to pander to more audiences makes it worse for every audience. Whether from the writing perspective or the awkward layout/extra hassle involved. |
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Ahirue
Posts: 62 |
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You talk like it's easy to just pull up the entirety of a 19-year-old anime series. But as far as I can tell, ballpark estimate of the complete Utena series is over $100. Some people (me included) just don't have the funds to justify dropping $100 on anime. Utena's been on my to-watch list for years. Over a decade. But I've just never had enough spare cash to justify it. (Heck, I only just managed to wheedle NGE out of my brothers as a Christmas gift this year! Long since a lost cause avoiding spoilers for that one though, lol.) I like YKA, and I've really been enjoying Gabriella's reviews, since they do shine light on the deeper meanings that I miss or can't quite put into words. I recognize that comparing YKA to Ikuhara's other works allows for analysis on themes and trends and extrapolations based upon them, but it does make me a little sad that, whenever I do manage to pick up Utena (and that may still be years down the line, since I don't watch illegal streams and it's not on Funimation or Crunchyroll), it won't have as much impact as it otherwise might have. (I'm pretty proud that I've more or less managed to keep myself unspoiled on it thus far, 19 years old or not.) |
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iatheia
Posts: 130 |
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Ahirue
Posts: 62 |
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b-but I want to own it....... (Thanks for the links! For some reason I've always assumed that you have to pay for anything worthwhile on Hulu and I'm at my quota for monthly subscriptions, and I didn't know Rightstuf had a YouTube channel. o3o) |
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Selipse
Posts: 216 |
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Then white-out those parts in-between the review? Or just give a warning at the top of the review ("This review goes in-depth on Ikuhara's other works, so if you haven't seen Utena and Penguindrum, beware of spoilers.") It's not that hard. |
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SailorTralfamadore
Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Utena is the weirdest show in the world for freaking out over spoilers. The raw "plot" and its twists are probably the least interesting part of that show, and knowing them ahead of time actually enhances your viewing experience because you're able to pick up on more of its little subtleties and its themes that really make the show so fantastic. I speak from experience: I spoiled myself on most of Utena's plot the first time I watched it.
Spoiler obsessives really need to give this a look. Last edited by SailorTralfamadore on Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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The idea that people can go around saying spoiler[Spike dies] at the end of Cowboy Bebop without a goddamned warning and people shouldn't be upset about it because it aired ages ago is ridiculous. That information completely ruined the show for me. Yes, it's a selfish and very personal grudge I hold against this "aired X years ago so should be perfectly OK" idea, I never said I spoke for the majority but:
If reading the reviews requires complete knowledge of the author's previous works, there should be a disclaimer on top. Whiteing-out specific pieces of spoiler information or at least writing a disclaimer on top saying there will be specific details about OTHER series shouldn't be too difficult, given how it's done regularly on news articles. I enjoy reading these reviews because I'm 100% blind to Ikuhara's symbolism, I probably wouldn't understand anything at all if not for Gabby's analysis, but if I have to risk getting spoiled for Utena (the series is lying somewhere on my to-watch pile, I just haven't gotten to it yet, deeply apologize for stupidly thinking I could watch and read analysis of Ikuhara's newest work without having watched his previous one), I'll sit out from these reviews. I enjoyed Penguindrum without understanding much of the symbolism, Yurikuma shouldn't be different. |
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Animerican14
Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Another admirable inquiry into an episode of an ongoing Ikuhara series. Maybe I'll save anymore specific pondering or gushing or whatever directly connected to this review for another, less dense post, because heaven knows I spend enough time making posts that are sometimes way more thorough than they need to be. There's definitely enough drama/questioning in this thread re: the latest episode and its review to chime in on alone for now!* (This might become a pattern of mine if I'm not one of the earlier responders following a review, hah.)
*[EDIT: WELP I've definitely responded at length to enough posters about this episode alone. orz]
It's interesting that Life Sexy is designated as a sort of avatar for Ikuhara, Gabbomatic— our favorite Suwabe-voiced bear did seem to actually share some good insight in calling out Lulu's and Ginko's love as arrogant and egotistical, respectively. But how does this gel with the notion that Life Sexy is, together with the other Judgmens, representative of the "patriarchy?" Does this mean that Ikuhara, as a man, does sorta count himself as a part of the patriarchy? But isn't the patriarchy supposed to be some abhorrent monster of a system, or something like that? Might Ikuhara be self-deprecating himself with such self-insertion, then? Or might Life Sexy really be above Life Cool and Life Cute in all senses of authority? Curious about what implications the possibility of Life Sexy being Ikuni's authorial voice raises… -----
Are you familiar with the rule of threes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(writing) [NOTE: this won't hyperlink correctly, so just go to the one labeled "(writing)"] I think many found those situations related to Ginko's imagination funny partially as a result of that rule. And not because of an arbitrary reason of "Oh, I guess this was supposed to be funny because of the rule of threes. Okay then! HAHAHAHA- [feigned laughter intensifies]"— people found this triplet of Ginko's fantasies hilarious because it just was, with how her imagination became more extreme with each successive fantasy and how inherently ridiculous each of them inherently were. Obviously it isn't guaranteed to work its magic on everyone— like you've demonstrated— but it has definitely worked with about everyone else I've seen comment on that scene. There was definitely variation with these fantasies. Maybe they were the same length of time a-piece or whatever but so what? The first involved Kureha waking up and greeting Ginko with a 'gau gau,' the second involved Kureha feeding Ginko oversized fish (among other foods), the third involved Kureha walking into the bathroom and baring herself name. All were distinct but still delusions of Ginko, and with no recycling of the same animation sequence either, unlike the kicking-Mirun-down-in-a-box parts of episode 4.
I think a lot of the execution and directorial version counts for it. Not to mention, you're being awfully reductive about Lulu's flashback episode and selling the story and the character motivations shorter than what'd be the minimum. -----
I sympathize a lot with CrowLia’s sentiments here. I may have had the good fortune of not getting spoiled on Revolutionary Girl Utena as I watched Mawaru Penguindrum—at least up until spoiler[the end of it, where the circumstances and my desire to better understand it led me to being semi-spoiled of how Utena ended.] While it definitely doesn’t concern me much today, having the benefit of hindsight and the fact that I’ve already seen all of Utena twice over now, I was definitely a bit antsy and tried to ignore what I learned as I went through my first viewing. If there had been episodic reviews of Penguindrum here on ANN and Utena had been spoiled, I’d probably file similar complaints. I’ve read the essay that Film Crit Hulk wrote about spoilers before, which SailorTralfamadore linked to, and as great as its points are, that still doesn’t mean people can’t get reasonably upset. Yes, even if it may have been suggested, either in an earlier review or somewhere on twitter by ANN staff, that Ikuhara’s other series should be seen “first”— something that which might not even be so necessary, if what kguillas said
holds true for many people— I think users like CrowLia are deserving of some kind of warning. Like she said, maybe it couldn’t hurt to white-out the spoilers for other Ikuhara series or at least give a good disclaimer at the start. Gabriella already goes beyond the call of duty in her lengthy write-ups for each episode; surely it won’t hurt anything to keep some less-experienced viewers and Ikuhara fans forewarned as well? |
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