Forum - View topicMobile Suit Gundam 00 (TV) (all seasons + movie) - Japanese broadcast (w/ index).
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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I don't think the first season of Gundam 00 was very good. Pretty much the only reason I'm watching it is that it has the Gundam name attached to it. That said, it was not even close to being on the same level as Destiny, which was just an all around train wreck. 00 has a coherent (albeit simplistic) plot and seems to have been at least somewhat planned out, compared to Destiny, which starts strong, completely shifts gears, treads water forever, and pretty much seems to change its focus every other episode, where the end game storyline was just patently absurd even by Gundam standards. 00 is certainly no worse than Gundam Wing, which isn't exactly high praise, but it's way beyond Destiny at least. I've ruminated at length about the problems with Destiny in other threads, so I'm not going to go over it again, but suffice to say that Destiny suffered from fundamental formal flaws and even on as objective a level as you can get, from simply a mechanical storytelling perspective, was a total mess. 00 isn't plagued by those kinds of problems, it's a properly executed show that just isn't that good. I don't buy the Zeta comparisons. I don't mean that the connections aren't there, I just don't think that it matters. Back in the day, I was all about ripping on Wing and SEED for being "unoriginal," but I don't care anymore. I evaluate each show in as much of a vacuum as is possible. I don't care if SEED just straight up plagiarizes First Gundam, if the show is still well made, entertaining, and interesting. I don't care if it tells a completely original story, either, if that story is dull and the execution is bungled. I guess this is just a personal opinion, so I'm not gonna try to tell you that you're wrong to invoke Zeta comparisons, I'm just going to tell you that they aren't going to sway me at all. In my mind, 00 lives or dies on its own merits, not on what comparisons you can draw between it and some other show. I do think you're still being way too hard on the second season, considering we've only seen two episodes so far. How do you know there's no desire to explain anything? How do you know they're not going to explain things over the coming episodes? For that matter, how do you know what's "uncharacteristic" of the characters when they haven't yet completed their development arcs? Exposition is boring and should be limited to the extent that the story allows. This is just basic storytelling. There's 22 episodes left for them to fill in the holes of the past few years, and I'm glad they're choosing to do it gradually instead of just narrating the whole thing to me up front. If we get to the end of the show and they haven't explained anything and there are relevant plot points that are left hanging and some characters seem to have acted completely contrary to their established personalities, then you'll have something there, but until that happens, you're just extrapolating two episodes and making assumptions about where the story's going to go. I guess I'm doing the same thing, but the difference is that I'm making the logical assumption that they'll probably do as reason and storytelling dictate and answer these questions, and you're assuming they're going to do something completely irrational and then you're crucifying them for it. If your predictions are accurate, you'll have been right all along and I'll be the first one to say it, but it doesn't make sense to me to predict something that, well, doesn't make sense. Every Gundam show borders on that hypocrisy that you attach to 00; that is the nature of a show which attempts to denounce war even while deriving entertainment value from it. Turn A, with its comparatively few battles and its fiercely pacifistic (and yet still pragmatic) protagonist, and G Gundam, which doesn't even feature a war, are probably the only shows that are arguably not hypocritical, but even that's questionable. I guess you can throw 0080 into the mix there, too, and you can probably make the strongest argument for it not being hypocritical. Still, this is clearly the exception, not the rule. If you're going to blast 00 for "hypocrisy," then let's not leave out the rest of the franchise. If you don't like the show, that's fine, I don't really care. I'm not a big fan of it myself, even if you think otherwise. But I think you're being a little unreasonable to watch two episodes of the season and complain that nothing has been explained, that characters are acting uncharacteristically, etc, and personally I think you're just nitpicking with the Zeta comparisons. The direction so far in season 2 hasn't seemed to me to be any better or worse than season 1, but I don't recall you (or anyone else, for that matter) complaining about it then. What, specifically, has bothered you about the direction so far? I'm genuinely curious about this because I don't know, maybe I just set my expectations lower than you did, but it hasn't seemed notably bad to me. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Two episodes before the discussion descended into bashing and "it's a trainwreck". Well at least people are throwing away any pretense this time around of giving the show a chance.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Because of R2, my faith in Sunrise really took a hammering. It caused me to reassess my feelings of the first season of Gundam 00. Ergo, I'm going to be very critical of season two. And you know what? If the season (and therefore series) turns out to be good, I'll be happier than anyone else here.
But the series has to prove that it is good, not just expect us to assume so. I want more than just pretty animation, catchy songs and adrenaline-filled battles. I want good and well-based character development, characters who "die" staying dead, and competent direction.* I also want the series to fulfill its promise of an intelligent Gundam, one that makes politics an integral part of the story. We've had politics before in Gundam, but its always been presented in simplistic terms. "The Federation is weak" is an over-used theme that doesn't satisfy in today's world** (and today's viewer expectations). So anyway, expect me to take a negative tone, and jump on small mistakes like a rabid dog. Also expect me to be the one who sings Sunrise's praises the loudest, should they produce a good season that actually delivers what we were promised. * What I mean is, the aspects of the production like story-boarding. The first episode of season two was incredibly poor in this regard, with incredibly choppy scene transitions, and a scatter-gun approach to which plot elements - and which characters - were included (all of them, it would seem). ** Okay, so the United Nations is feeble, but that's old hat. I want issues that are relevant to today's world. The idea of energy wars was a great inclusion into Gundam 00, as energy is currently a very pressing issue globally. But it was never expanded beyond a certain point, though there have been allusions (like the Agrippa's prior battle-history). I say, give me more of that. The ethnic cleansing was also interesting, but got little coverage outside of the Azadistan arc. Even then, we still didn't get the full background. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I'm enjoying this season so far. The only problem I have with it is that the CB costumes look doofy with that green diamond in them. Otherwise it's a good show so far. Yeah, they started out in media rez and all, but that's cool, I'll give them the space to fill in the blanks, as they started to do this episode.
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Well that's mostly ridiculous then because the way you are going to be watching it it's impossible for it to ever leave a good impression anyway. You go ahead and kill the show for yoursell, but leave me out of it please. I would however ask you to take note of the many "I wants" in your post though. When the show doesn't achieve one of your "I wants" whose fault is that? Was it the shows intent to deliver on that apsect in the first place or is it just you demanding it goes down the path you think it should? |
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abynormal
 Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
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I just watched episode one. I regarded the first season as mecha junk food, and season two looks to be no different. And you know what? I'm glad. So long as I can relax and enjoy the swiss cheese plot, blatant throwbacks to previous series, shallow characters and mecha porn, I'll be alright.
My only concern is that Macross Frontier has already set the high water mark for epic mecha action, even though it had fewer battles as a whole. I have no idea how Gundam 00 intends to top that or if it intends to. |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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You're still just speaking in very general terms. Which specific scene transitions bothered you? I mean I don't hold 00 up as a particularly great example of competent direction, but I just don't think the first episode was nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. And it also seems a bit inconsistent to me that you'd hammer the show for not offering enough backstory and at the same time complain that they included too many characters. Showing each character, even if only briefly, gets us up to speed on where they are now -- and later, presumably, we'll learn how they got there. You want more exposition but you want to be reintroduced to fewer characters? So you basically want them to just narrate to you what Setsuna's been doing the past few years? And how would that not be boring? Wasting an entire episode like that would actually be a great example of poor direction.
We're two episodes into the season, only barely more than halfway through the series overall. How do you know the energy issue isn't gonna come back into play? |
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IchigoK90
 Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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Okay I'm just pointing this out for anyone still complaining about the one sided battles of season one prior to the GN-Xs falling into the hands of the United Nations Forces. At least take into consideration that even though the battles were overwhelmingly one sided that Celestial Being at the time had technology far more advanced than anything the three major powers could boast. Also this isn't the only instance in any science fiction where one side has far more advanced technology and has the complete advantage over another side. Once the level of technology balanced out with the 3 powers gaining the GN-Xs it became a test of skill between the pilots and not a question of technology because the playing field was now equal in that area. I took that into consideration when watching season 1 and thus I didn't have any complaints about the battles.
Oh and just a little thing for the side but has anyone here bought any of the model kits for any of the suits? I currently own both the HG 1/144 Gundam Exia and the HG 1/144 Gundam 00. |
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BladeDragoonZETA
 Posts: 586 |
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dtm42:
what the heck is your problem with the scene transitions; I don't see it at all. 00 has, so far, been very well written and directed.* If you really don't want to watch 00 then don't, it's that simple; I don't think any of us are looking forward to hearing you nitpick every week. now then as for the 00 models; they are very nice. I have, so far, the HG 1/144 Exia, HG 1/144 Graham's Flag, 1/100 Nadeleeh/Virtue and (currently assembled) 1/60 Exia. Most of the new kits are very nice and have great posabillity. Honestly I'd not hesitate to say these kits are 10 times better than older ones. |
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IchigoK90
Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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Oh nice, I haven't found a 1/100 of Nadleeh/Virtue so I guess I'm assuming that means you can remove the armour right? And frankly I'll have to agree with you on these kits. I think they're well designed and definitely more fun for me to build than the previous generation from SEED, SEED Destiny and C.E Stargazer as well as the MSV and etc. Those suits were pretty boring to build... well not building but the parts used were just so plain and a lot were used in a lot of other suits. Too much repetition in the parts for my liking. Hopefully I can get my hands on the HG (I believe its HG) Dynames packaged with the GN Arms Type D. If not I'll just settle for the 1/144 Dynames and hope the new Cherudim is out by my birthday. Plus... I guess I should say its back to be on the forums after basically an 8 month absence or so. Last edited by IchigoK90 on Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BladeDragoonZETA
Posts: 586 |
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yes this one: http://www.gundamstoreandmore.com/ban953123.html I really need a stand to display it properly though since the GN Bazooka is heavy and hard to balance with. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I have to agee that you'd be shooting yourself in the foot right off the bat if you're letting a completely unrelated show affect your objectivity. CG is not Gundam. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Never said it was. What I did say was that both are made by Sunrise. And if Sunrise can stuff up the second season of Code Geass, who's to say that it won't stuff up the second season of Gundam 00? Of course, who's to say it will? I'll tell you; their record. In this business, you are only as good as your last production. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I wouldn't worry unless the staff members are all the same people which given Sunrise is a large company probabally not. (and in my case I wouldn't worry at all)
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3896 |
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I currently own three Gundam 00 models. I have the 1/100 scale Dynames and Kyrios mobile suits and the 1/400 scale Ptolemaios.
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