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CCSYueh wrote:

I didn't think there were any "good" types of cancer.
It's their hard work & their livelihood. Can't really blame them for the "Drop Dead" comments we all make when people say or do stuff that anger us. One can only smile politely for so long.
We've been seeing the subbers insist the artists love them as an excuse for their existence. Doesn't sound as though there's much love left if there ever had been any.

What love? One fansubber said that he LOVES subbing on that Black Butler author's condemnation news post. We could see that subbing outweighs the love of anime & manga. It's like a womanizer who says love to a girl, but still sleeps around with other women. Am I right or am I wrong?

It would be nice if a black magic is a real thing. They could just curse the subbers to eternal misery.
Okay... fantasizing aside, I'm glad that Black Butler author isn't alone with condemnation.

agila61 wrote:

IndeterminateForm wrote:

Oh, all I was really saying is that the US doesn't make up the whole 25% of the rights income, as Japan licenses manga and anime in other countries as well. It's entirely possible that I'm missing something in this data that's relevant to that though.

I know, and all I was really saying was that piracy normally ignores national boundaries so under your hypothetical that piracy was bad enough that it killed off the R1 industry, would also mean piracy is so bad it will kill off or seriously damage most other international markets.

So for your hypothesis, its not the 5%~10% or so rights income from the US market, but the whole 25% rights income in international rights income that is at stake. All the international markets have the delays of licensing, the delays for localization approvals, the slower publication schedules due to smaller markets. They all have similar vulnerability to the same kind of pirate scanlation and fansubbing activity.

Ah ha, a very good point there. To futher that point, any country that doesn't have established publishers confident in the profitability of manga, who may just be dipping their feet in, could possibly(probably) fail, thus killing whatever potential their market had.

Last edited by Kirkdawg on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

ikillchicken wrote:

Yeah, actually I kinda think you are. I don't recall hearing from you any other times so I'm not sure but right now you're coming across like one of the many people who just hangs around looking for opportunities to act self-righteous on the internet. First you get all offended over a joke, then as soon as something else for you to complain about comes along you jump on that.

I've been reading around these forums for quite some time and I just notice you tend to be rather snarky in your posts, that's all. A lot of the time I perceive it to be condescending, which is just an annoying personality trait in anyone (I would think, no?). I just haven't bothered posting or contacting you about it. Believe it or not, I do think for myself and I said earlier that I find the jokes to be rather tasteless; I can understand why people would be offended.

Anyhow, I'd rather not get too involved in a pissing contest over our personalities.

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Though I feel sorry for the mangakas but manga is f-king expensive and inconvenient to buy if you're a true fan and don't live in Japan!

If it's too "expensive and inconvenient to buy", feel free not to read it. And how are you a "true fan" if you can't be bothered to contribute anything to the people whose work you're a "true fan" of.

Quote:

If I had the money or patience to wait for the shipping, I would.

I'm sure that's ever so comforting news to artists everywhere.[/quote]

I don't have the money to buy it 4 times a month, didn't say I don't contribute. I try buy all the volumes of the manga I follow, not just every freaking month and all at once. ; Anime hyper

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Manic_Monkey wrote:

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

If I had the money or patience to wait for the shipping, I would.

You know there was once a time in the world when if you couldn't afford something you'd usually have to do "with out" for a while before you could obtain it.

I'm in the same boat as you are and I'm not dying of pancreatic cancer due to waiting alittle.

Once upon a time in the beginning of the 90s when internet didn't exist. But this is 2010 and I don't have time for them to realize that their way of publishing manga is outdated. If they can get out of the 90's and make use of the internet like everyone else is, they'll make alot more money and everyone will be happy. (　ﾟ∀ﾟ)彡

I did say I don't have the patience and time to wait for it. Stress is 90% of me being alive these days.

No I'm pretty sure your still not entitled to free stuff even if the publishers haven't gotten with the times yet. (I'm not a luddite and as long as the stuff keeps coming over I don't care if its in e-form or not.)

Perhaps the jokes were a bit over-the-top, however I still chuckled. It's about time that the mangaka are standing up for their rights and telling people that they're tired of "fans" pirating their work. I'd actually like to see more mangaka start to make their own statements like this (albeit not like this, since I don't think we need several rounds of mangaka telling cancer jokes just to get their point across Anime hyper

).

Manic_Monkey wrote:

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Manic_Monkey wrote:

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

If I had the money or patience to wait for the shipping, I would.

You know there was once a time in the world when if you couldn't afford something you'd usually have to do "with out" for a while before you could obtain it.

I'm in the same boat as you are and I'm not dying of pancreatic cancer due to waiting alittle.

Once upon a time in the beginning of the 90s when internet didn't exist. But this is 2010 and I don't have time for them to realize that their way of publishing manga is outdated. If they can get out of the 90's and make use of the internet like everyone else is, they'll make alot more money and everyone will be happy. (　ﾟ∀ﾟ)彡

I did say I don't have the patience and time to wait for it. Stress is 90% of me being alive these days.

No I'm pretty sure your still not entitled to free stuff even if the publishers haven't gotten with the times yet. (I'm not a luddite and as long as the stuff keeps coming over I don't care if its in e-form or not.)

Not saying it's legal or that I'm entitled to anything, I'm pointing out stuff that should already exist, and that they should work around the problems instead of stopping or asking someone to die because of them.

"Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

Manic_Monkey wrote:

In short it could only do more harm than good by giving them a BS way to justify it all.

As opposed to the BS reasons being used to justify it now?

Just like all of the "outrage" over the cancer joke is going to be used as a way of "sticking it" to mangaka? Just like how the mangaka for Black Butler's comments drew a big tiff from users at ANN?

Fansubbers and uploaders simply don't care about anything other than catering to their fans as a source of e-peen, or in more serious cases, carrying on a righteous crusade to get anime/manga attention and sticking it to the MAN (ie, big business), but when that little self deception starts to crumble, they are gonna lash out in any way they can to keep on top.

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Not saying it's legal or that I'm entitled to anything, I'm pointing out stuff that should already exist, and that they should work around the problems instead of stopping or asking someone to die because of them.

"Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

Can't argue with that. Cool

I am very disappointed the way creator speaks out their opinion. While they have legitimate and understandable concerns about their rights, but the way they present is tasteless - especially considering they are far more intelligent than a typical teenager chatting in FPS or Internet forum flame wars.

In fact, talking like that will fuel even more uploads - the uploaders will just upload more to spite them. Wonderful - E-Peen war between creators and book pirates. Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Marcus H. on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

(First post here, by the way; I just made this account and I have no idea where the Introduction Thread is. Anime dazed

To all the users from AS, I'm the same Marcus H.)

So I just read the OP and actually, I'm not surprised. Japanese people are less likely to hold back when their comfort zones are invaded by "fans" who don't contribute to sales. Also, although their approach is less than civilized (to the point that it's 2ch-ish), it's a big sign that they are no longer staying mum about the issue.

However, what's the case around the world? I, for one, can't get hold of my favorite manga because it's expensive to get an untranslated copy from Japan and only a handful of Del Rey manga managed to land on the nearby bookstore.

Also, I noticed that the mangaka's statement only targeted "those pirates". However, it's more complicated than that. Why aren't they getting the lion's share--or even 40%--of the entire sales of their work?

That's right, the publishers. They suck up so much of the mangaka's supposed income that the original creator gets mere pennies for his work while the publishers haul their money by the bulldozer. However, the mangaka seem to display a certain fear towards questioning the publishers (as their work would be trashed when they complain) and thus, they are forced to look for a scapegoat... the pirates.

Look at page 7 of this PDF: http://www.jetro.org/trends/market_info_manga.pdf. It shows how little the original creators get from all that processing.

All in all, it's not the fault of the mangaka nor the entire (emphasis on entire) fault of the pirate. The middlemen who make this possible is also stealing from the mangaka themselves.

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Not saying it's legal or that I'm entitled to anything, I'm pointing out stuff that should already exist, and that they should work around the problems instead of stopping or asking someone to die because of them.

These are manga-ka ... if they spend their time working out how to electronically distribute their manga ... uh, they wouldn't have time to make the manga itself.

The manga-ka were probably talking among themselves in these terms for years ... its just twitter is something they can do in little nooks and crannies of their long production days ~ eg, while on a train ~ so the way they think of bloodsucker parasites is a bit more visible than it was a couple of years ago, once the topic gets raised by a couple of blog posts.

Kirkdawg wrote:

Believe it or not, I do think for myself and I said earlier that I find the jokes to be rather tasteless; I can understand why people would be offended.

Well okay, fair enough. Maybe I misjudged your intent.

scchan wrote:

I am very disappointed the way creator speaks out their opinion. While they have legitimate and understandable concerns about their rights, but the way they present is tasteless - especially considering they are far more intelligent than a typical teenager chatting in FPS or Internet forum flame wars.

Dude, Hiroe and Hirano's works involve gun-peddling psychotic nuns and baby-eating Nazi vampires. You're actually surprised that they're responses to this kind of thing come off as a little "tastless"?

[quote="agila61"]

AmeendayoOmaera wrote:

Not saying it's legal or that I'm entitled to anything, I'm pointing out stuff that should already exist, and that they should work around the problems instead of stopping or asking someone to die because of them.

These are manga-ka ... if they spend their time working out how to electronically distribute their manga ... uh, they wouldn't have time to make the manga itself.

True, it's the publishers job to solve problems like this. But they're happy where they are, doing almost nothing.

And from another perspective, manga is alot more fragile than music or films. Music have their concerts, cd sales, radio, TV and the commercial bits like interviews and such. Films have the cinema, dvd sales, commercials, rights for TV and toys.

Manga has what, the sales of the manga itself, and fan items related to the manga itself. I wonder why they haven't thought seriously about online reading before, it must have come up during discussions..?

But the publishers is to greedy to solve the problem, loosing a little money by going online. They instead waste time and money fighting a problem that will never go away as long as internet exist.[/u]

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