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NEWS: Tourist Jailed in New Zealand for Child Abuse 'Manga' Images


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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:48 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Pedophilia is no different in classification as homosexuality.


oh goodie. It must be Rocket Science Day. again.

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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:51 am Reply with quote
There's nothing really offensive about the comparison in the context of Mesonoxian Eve's post; the fact that all the offense to it ignores the point made on either side of it for a cheap "How dare you compare a sexuality I think is evil with one I don't mind!" just illustrates what he was talking about: not all pedophiles are child molesters and not all child molesters are pedophiles and conflating the two doesn't do anybody any good.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:18 am Reply with quote
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:
I'm out are you with me??


Yeah, if the thread is just going to be about paedophilia instead of this case in New Zealand then I'm out too.

By the way, I cracked up at the image you used.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:47 am Reply with quote
How is it not relevant? The conflation of lolicons, pedophiles and child molesters is the force responsible for this sort of bullshit.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:57 am Reply with quote
tcsavato wrote:
Being a lolicon has nothing to do with the age of the character in question, it's purely a body style. Nothing more. I'm insanely positive that if a poll was taken on a lolicon's attraction to real kids, you would find very little correlation.

You're conflating being a fan of loli characters with those who are fans of lolicon.

These are not the same thing. Lolicon is very aptly defined as a sexual attraction to loli characters. The word is derived from the book/movie Lolita, which I'm sure most people are familiar with.

The general public, however, will not separate this attraction from pedophilia. It's the very reason these laws exist, and why this article exists.

It doesn't matter if there's a real world correlation. If you took these very same anime lolicon images to the general public, you'll have an overwhelming majority indicate they're child pornography and those who are attracted to them are pedophiles.

This very notion is why these laws exist. Almost every country has laws against sexual depictions of minors, no matter what the medium is.

Even if we were to survey those who are fans of lolicon, I seriously doubt most would answer honestly of being a pedophile because of the stigma that's attached to it.

Being classified (wait: I should say "labeled" since a few other readers of this discussion are incapable of understanding) a pedophile brands a person with a negative view, which is stupid by default.

I'm one to believe it's stupid to hold something like pedophilia against someone. No one can control what they're attracted to, hence why the label is no different than homosexuality.

Yet look how the public treats homosexuality (which is slowly changing, far too slow in my opinion).

No one advocates a sexual relationship with a minor, but one shouldn't pretend such attraction doesn't exist because it makes them feel icky.

Quote:
Under US Law, a Pedophile is some one sexually attracted to a child.

There is no law regarding pedophilia, at least in the US. Pedophilia is nothing more than a classification assigned to patients under psychological care and is used internally. At current, it is not considered a medical diagnosis, indicating it's not something that can be treated. In fact, most cases of pedophilia are assigned CPT codes (for billing) that are no different than schizophrenia, bipolar, and any other psychological disorder.

Quote:
There's not enough information to classify Hadley as a Pedophile.

Which is why I said "most likely". Keep in mind: I'm with firm belief those who are into lolicon are pedophiles. To me, you can not separate the sexual attraction equation from the issue.

It doesn't matter if these lolicons are into real children or not. Pedophilia and lolicon are synonymous with me.

Cut the head off the loli character and tell me if the bodies are different.

Otherwise, we're back into the difference between fans of loli vs. fans of lolicon.

One final cautionary statement: for those into lolicon trying to defend the definition, it's important to realize that I'm one to believe such arguments would be futile when there are adult women with the same body type which can serve the "need", so to speak.

In fact, Australia was aware porn was taking advantage of this and has made it illegal for porn producers to make videos of girls without breasts because it (falsely) promoted pedophilia. Google for verification in an NSFW location.

If the body type is the claim here, it's going to be very tough to convince me that the character has to be underage to achieve it.

Quote:
Laws like this are generally passed in silence and people that report legislation disregard it since "animated child pornography" has no meaning to the public eye since most people likely don't even know it exists.

This excuses the law's passing.

It does not excuse why the law's still on the books when it's made public.

Quote:
And in case anyone does care, I am a lolicon. I do not find real children attractive.

Yet you don't admit to being a pedophile.

Doesn't matter because I know most people aren't going to openly admit to being a pedophile.

But to those who are, in reading this, understand not everyone in this discussion is uncomfortable with it.

I want to make it clear again: pedophilia is not the same thing as child molester. Don't make the mistake I'm one of the many around here who think they're synonymous.

However, you need to be aware by admitting you're a lolicon, to many around here, you are also admitting to being a pedophile and will be treated accordingly.

Since there's honesty here, take comfort this chastising idiocy will not come from me. Anyone who knows a pedophile who's attracted to real children knows what horror they're living with because they're not child molesters.

They'd be treated like one because most people are completely ignorant on the matter.

All thanks to mass media hysteria.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:24 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
...just illustrates what he was talking about:
Pissst. He's a she, just saying.
Quote:
not all pedophiles are child molesters and not all child molesters are pedophiles
So just what is a child molester, if not a paedo? Non slang please. Wink
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
So just what is a child molester, if not a paedo? Non slang please. Wink
A) Most rapes aren't sexually motivated - why are you so sure there's no bleed through to the sort of vile human that would rape a child? B) You're completely ignoring the more important point.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:01 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
So just what is a child molester, if not a paedo? Non slang please. Wink
A) Most rapes aren't sexually motivated - why are you so sure there's no bleed through to the sort of vile human that would rape a child? B) You're completely ignoring the more important point.
Nice way to circumvent my question, but as now I also tack on another request for explanation of which rapes are and are not sexually motivated in your opinion, I'd still like some coherent reply please. Wink
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:21 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Nice way to circumvent my question, but as now I also tack on another request for explanation of which rapes are and are not sexually motivated in your opinion, I'd still like some coherent reply please. Wink
You want a definition stated so badly you won't infer it? Okay: the term "child molester" to me refers to someone who molests children(shocking, I know) and has nothing to do with why they did it(and since the vast majority of rapes aren't sexually motivated(as far as I know, there's no serious dispute on this point), it stands to reason that a great deal of those who target children are less interested in the age of the victim and more concerned with their helplessness).
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tcsavato



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
You're conflating being a fan of loli characters with those who are fans of lolicon.

These are not the same thing. Lolicon is very aptly defined as a sexual attraction to loli characters. The word is derived from the book/movie Lolita, which I'm sure most people are familiar with.


In a general sense, I'm talking about both, but I am just focusing on the lolicon population. Also I'm very well aware of where the word comes from.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
Even if we were to survey those who are fans of lolicon, I seriously doubt most would answer honestly of being a pedophile because of the stigma that's attached to it.


I've talked to a few that have and are proudly open to admit to being both even to family with no real qualms in their social life. If you are an open lolicon, there's really not much else worth hiding in a fetish sense. Not saying it's on of the worst fetishes to have, but it's definitely one that catches people's eyes.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
There is no law regarding pedophilia, at least in the US. Pedophilia is nothing more than a classification assigned to patients under psychological care and is used internally. At current, it is not considered a medical diagnosis, indicating it's not something that can be treated. In fact, most cases of pedophilia are assigned CPT codes (for billing) that are no different than schizophrenia, bipolar, and any other psychological disorder.


I'm not saying that there's a law against pedophilia, just how it's legally defined.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:

Which is why I said "most likely". Keep in mind: I'm with firm belief those who are into lolicon are pedophiles. To me, you can not separate the sexual attraction equation from the issue.

It doesn't matter if these lolicons are into real children or not. Pedophilia and lolicon are synonymous with me.

Cut the head off the loli character and tell me if the bodies are different.


Here's our disconnect. One you also ignored my example of Edna Krabapol. An attraction to fiction does not necessarily translate into reality. Much like Furries are not actually Zoophiles in real life. The sexual attraction mostly lies in the art style of the work combined with the body style and such, with the art style taking precedence because these characters are meant to be attractive in some form regardless of whether it is sexual or not.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
One final cautionary statement: for those into lolicon trying to defend the definition, it's important to realize that I'm one to believe such arguments would be futile when there are adult women with the same body type which can serve the "need", so to speak.


Real people aren't as cute as lolis~

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
If the body type is the claim here, it's going to be very tough to convince me that the character has to be underage to achieve it.


There's plenty of >16 year old characters that classify as loli. Real People too, but meh.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
This excuses the law's passing.

It does not excuse why the law's still on the books when it's made public.


Going back to Oklahoma making Whaling Illegal. It's still on the books despite the fact that it is impossible to go Whaling in Oklahoma. And again, it's highly doubtful that anybody knows it exists. Not everybody knows every law.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
Yet you don't admit to being a pedophile.

Doesn't matter because I know most people aren't going to openly admit to being a pedophile.


If I was, I would admit to it. Real kids are just ugly and uncute.

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
However, you need to be aware by admitting you're a lolicon, to many around here, you are also admitting to being a pedophile and will be treated accordingly.


I really don't care what they think. I just have a high intolerance of illogical thinking. So it would mostly be met with me laughing.

Nothing against you, you do have logic behind your words. I just wanted to bring some education from a lolicon himself.

For the rape discussion, Most rapes are done for power or to dehumanize the victim. When it comes to kids, it's mostly a power thing. It's easier to coerce and over power them, making them easy targets, really.

This may be a bit of a limited example, but prison rapes are about power. Very few that rape others in prison are actually gay.
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
Location: Cheltenham UK
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:58 am Reply with quote
This is still going on?
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:02 am Reply with quote
tcsavato wrote:
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
There is no law regarding pedophilia, at least in the US. Pedophilia is nothing more than a classification assigned to patients under psychological care and is used internally. At current, it is not considered a medical diagnosis, indicating it's not something that can be treated. In fact, most cases of pedophilia are assigned CPT codes (for billing) that are no different than schizophrenia, bipolar, and any other psychological disorder.


I'm not saying that there's a law against pedophilia, just how it's legally defined.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Walsh_Child_Protection_and_Safety_Act
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guildmaster



Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 355
Location: Hot & Humid FL
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:44 am Reply with quote
TsunaReborn! wrote:
This is still going on?


Unfortunately, yes. Rolling Eyes
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:37 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
You want a definition stated so badly you won't infer it? Okay: the term "child molester" to me refers to someone who molests children(shocking, I know) and has nothing to do with why they did it(and since the vast majority of rapes aren't sexually motivated(as far as I know, there's no serious dispute on this point), it stands to reason that a great deal of those who target children are less interested in the age of the victim and more concerned with their helplessness).
I wanted your definitions and just by what you've stated they are mostly narrow minded conjecture, and misconceptions. For your homework look up the actual definitiions of the words Paedophile (correct spelling), rape (as in sexual), and research child molester, and molestation. After those, think about how the word "tool" and the phrase"means to an end" could mean the same thing. Wink
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Khooni



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:07 am Reply with quote
I'm gonna ditch Facebook....... these forums really crack me up!!! Laughing
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