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Mawaru Penguindrum's dub being directed by... Steven Foster?


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getchman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:


You might as well not watch anime if you have so little regard for an English dub's accuracy to the original product.


i dont think that is for you to decide for everyone.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote
getchman--
I think that the movie (5cm/sec) has an upbeat -- albeit open-ended -- ending. You should really watch the sub version! Anime catgrin Anime smile Cool Wink
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getchman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:08 pm Reply with quote
maybe at some point in the future, but not any time soon. i dont think watching it in japanese is really going to change my opinion of the show. i dont get my panties in twist when Foster does something Fosterish. i love high school of the dead, in both languages
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 710
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:59 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
[This content was removed]

"English is the original to me." This is not a matter of opinion. It is a FACT that the Japanese version is the original. If the Japanese original didn't exist, the English version wouldn't exist, because there wouldn't be anything to dub in the first place!

You don't even care if an English dub is inaccurate? If it disrespects the original material? If it spits in the face of the hard working people who made the show in the first place? You might as well not watch the show at all if that's your attitude. An anime is Japanese. The people who made it, the people who originated the storyline, the dialogue, the music, the voices, all Japanese. Now, that doesn't make them inherently superior because they're Japanese, it makes them the first, it makes them important because they were the first, that this product doesn't exist without them.

English dubs are a marketing tool. An anime can exist without an English dub. It cannot exist without the Japanese crew. It simply does not exist without them.

You might as well not watch anime if you have so little regard for an English dub's accuracy to the original product.

And someone is overreacting to what I said.

To me, anime are just cartoons, nothing more, nothing less. They're just 2-d drawn characters with voices, it's nothing special to me, it's why I always wait it out and get complete sets. To me, the English is the original, I'm NEVER going to watch the Japanese track, to me, it's a worthless add-on to me. Todd and Jason with be the voices of Allen and Lavi to me, not the Japanese VA.

I can't stream, I don't watch any of my anime until it hits the US market, I mostly blind buy my stuff based off reviews and the genre. And I ended up getting out of anime because Toonami was taken off in 2008, my means of watching this stuff, so when that left and they kept replaying the same stuff on Adult Swim, the only means of previewing anime left my life.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
To me, the English is the original, I'm NEVER going to watch the Japanese track, to me, it's a worthless add-on to me. Todd and Jason with be the voices of Allen and Lavi to me, not the Japanese VA.


Except it being the original product, clearly the Japanese version is the original. It's not even up for debate.

I could say that Donald Duck is the President of the United States, but if I say "to me" it doesn't make it any less ********.
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Ausdoerrt



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:00 pm Reply with quote
Wow. Pretending that Japanese anime is actually American cartoons is certainly a curious approach. Guess that's one way to overcome cultural identity crisis Confused

nbahn wrote:
getchman--
I think that the movie (5cm/sec) has an upbeat -- albeit open-ended -- ending. You should really watch the sub version! Anime catgrin Anime smile Cool Wink


Indeed it does, I'm not sure how one could interpret it otherwise. It's pretty much Shinkai's most happy-go-lucky work if there's such a thing. Also the primary reason I hated it. Rolling Eyes
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:19 pm Reply with quote
Ausdoerrt wrote:
Wow. Pretending that Japanese anime is actually American cartoons is certainly a curious approach. Guess that's one way to overcome cultural identity crisis Confused

Because it's just 2-d drawn entertainment to me, regradless where it's drawn. I love stuff like Yu Yu Hakusho, Ben 10, Gargoyles, Generator Rex...they're cartoons to me to watch. You honestly think when kids are watching 4kids dub of anime, they're thinking "this is such a cool anime." No, they're thinking it's a cartoon. Yes, Japan does a better job at making them visually appealing, but western made cartoons also have more details having in the background, they're not standing around and the mouth just moving.

And no matter what, the English is the original to me, regardless of what people tell me. Yeah, so what if the voices were recorded in Japan first (that isn't always the case, Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust was dubbed in English first because the Japanese director liked our work more). But I don't watch the Japanese track, I stick int he DVD play the English track, making those voices the original to me.

You hear people complain about the screwed up English dubs because they "don't live up" to the Japanese VAs. Well, hate to tell you, they're just 2-d drawn characters with no voices.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Wow.

How would you feel if Japan took, let's say, Ben 10 (really, Ben 10? Hahahahaha...) and changed it's script drastically, rewriting whole portions of it, effectively changing the context of the scenes and thus the show itself, took out its music, gave it their own (actually, I'm pretty sure they did this... The Pillows did a song for the show in Japan), and hired VAs that totally missed the things the original English VAs were trying to put across?

Would it not be a slap to the face to the original product?

The English dub of an anime is its ambassador to the English-speaking costumer. If they do one at all for an anime, it has to reflect the Japanese show as closely as possible. Otherwise it stops being the show and starts being something different.
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Ausdoerrt



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:54 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
Yes, Japan does a better job at making them visually appealing, but western made cartoons also have more details having in the background, they're not standing around and the mouth just moving.


Have you watched any anime released in, like, the last 10 years? Shocked I haven't seen a show abuse static animation like that in ages.

And just because kids think something doesn't mean it's right, or that an more experienced viewer can't have a different opinion. I mean, kids think that Shakespeare is something long and boring they have to read for class and Math useless and dumb. Doesn't make it true Laughing

Nor does a poor performance of a classic concerto become any better if I pretend it's just a Beyonce song. Cause that's what a dub's supposed to be - an interpretation of the original, not a re-imagining. I can see how one would prefer to watch everything dubbed in his native language, but I have trouble understanding how it's possible not to care whether the localizers actually did a good job. I mean, if for some reason I'm unable to read/watch something in the original version, I'll make damn sure I find the best translation I can.
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Wow.

How would you feel if Japan took, let's say, Ben 10 (really, Ben 10? Hahahahaha...) and changed it's script drastically, rewriting whole portions of it, effectively changing the context of the scenes and thus the show itself, took out its music, gave it their own (actually, I'm pretty sure they did this... The Pillows did a song for the show in Japan), and hired VAs that totally missed the things the original English VAs were trying to put across?

Would it not be a slap to the face to the original product?

The English dub of an anime is its ambassador to the English-speaking costumer. If they do one at all for an anime, it has to reflect the Japanese show as closely as possible. Otherwise it stops being the show and starts being something different.

Honestly, they don't care. Do you REALLY think that if Family Guy got a script change in another language, you honestly think whoever the hell made the damn show is going to sue? No, companies buy the license, they are free to do with the show as they please.

Honestly, if Japan did get a hold of Ben 10 and did screw with that show, that would be disrespectful to the man that made it because the man died last year. And after he passed away, look what they do to the new series, they change the whole damn style of the show. Ben 10 had that semi-realist style since 2000, they man passes away in 2011, they finished off Ultimate Alien and that is were it was meant to end. Ben 10 already got screwed over because of the man dying, now they're just continuing it for the hell of it.

Ausdoerrt wrote:
Have you watched any anime released in, like, the last 10 years? Shocked I haven't seen a show abuse static animation like that in ages.

And just because kids think something doesn't mean it's right, or that an more experienced viewer can't have a different opinion. I mean, kids think that Shakespeare is something long and boring they have to read for class and Math useless and dumb. Doesn't make it true Laughing

Uh...no duh, I still watch anime. I plan to get Shiki, but watch every DETAIL in an Japanese animation and a western cartoon, western cartoons will have more stuff going on in the background. In anime these days, when they're not fighting and crap like that, they'll just have them standing around and have them talk, nothing else will be going on. Anime might've gotten move visually appealing over the years, but at the lose of detail.

Anime is 2-d drawn character and background with music playing in the background. Western cartoons, they're 2*d drawn characters and background with music playing. I don't see WHY I cna't call them a cartoon, they're the same damn thing. it's like my parents keep calling them "cartoons" I'm not going to fight when about it and tell them different because they're right, they're just a different verity of cartoon. Hell, fans were giving Eric Vale the middle finger because he called anime "cartoons," it's all what you grow up on, simple as that. It's not something to get all pissed about.


Last edited by Vata Raven on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Just because something is legal to do, doesn't make it right to do it.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:10 pm Reply with quote
I think that the biggest bone of contention between Rata Raven and penguintruth is that the latter is a purist while the former is not. Vive la differance!
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:24 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Just because something is legal to do, doesn't make it right to do it.

Can I point out...that Afro Samurai is something drawn by Gonzo studio, but only has a dub-track. Do yo whine and cry about the fact the release is dub-only, even though it was we most know that Gonzo is a Japanese production studio.

You honestly think anime would be as "popular' unless companies did add the English track? I don't think so because Funimation and Sentai have both said that 80% of the fans are dub fans. Most of those people mostly only care about the English cast, so to see who voiced a curtain character and meet them at a con.
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Ausdoerrt



Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
Uh...no duh, I still watch anime. I plan to get Shiki, but watch every DETAIL in an Japanese animation and a western cartoon, western cartoons will have more stuff going on in the background. In anime these days, when they're not fighting and crap like that, they'll just have them standing around and have them talk, nothing else will be going on. Anime might've gotten move visually appealing over the years, but at the lose of detail.


While Japanese animation is more character-focused, the amount of background detail recently can hardly be called lacking. I'm not sure what shows you're watching, but I'd say you must be going for something that really jumped the shark with production values.

Quote:
Anime is 2-d drawn character and background with music playing in the background. Western cartoons, they're 2*d drawn characters and background with music playing. I don't see WHY I cna't call them a cartoon, they're the same damn thing. it's like my parents keep calling them "cartoons" I'm not going to fight when about it and tell them different because they're right, they're just a different verity of cartoon. Hell, fans were giving Eric Vale the middle finger because he called anime "cartoons," it's all what you grow up on, simple as that. It's not something to get all pissed about.


Kids' motion pictures and erotic films are all "movies", which doesn't make them one and the same thing, doesn't mean they're meant for the same audiences, and doesn't mean they can and should be evaluated according to the same criteria. Your argument is so fundamentally flawed that I have trouble taking it seriously at all.

P.S. I feel like you're intentionally pushing the dub vs sub issue when it's not at hand at all. The issue is that a dub that significantly distorts the meaning and the purpose of the original is a poor dub, and just because the target audience is unlikely to be aware of the original doesn't make it less so.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:51 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:

Can I point out...that Afro Samurai is something drawn by Gonzo studio, but only has a dub-track. Do yo whine and cry about the fact the release is dub-only, even though it was we most know that Gonzo is a Japanese production studio.


Ah, anecdotal evidence, the bastion of the desperate.

Quote:
You honestly think anime would be as "popular' unless companies did add the English track? I don't think so because Funimation and Sentai have both said that 80% of the fans are dub fans. Most of those people mostly only care about the English cast, so to see who voiced a curtain character and meet them at a con.


You're quite right, anime's popularity in North America is largely the result of English dubs (though you can't discount the influence of the people watching anime before it was readily available in English, back in the Usenet group days). But that's irrelevant to the point at hand. I readily admit that English dubs are a valuable marketing tool. However, the show can exist without it. It's original form already does so.

If the English dub does not reflect the Japanese product, than it ceases being the intended show.

And naturally the English cast is going to be more popular, simply out of the convenience of the dub being in the language the people here speak. Not because they're any better than the Japanese cast.
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