Forum - View topicNEWS: Attack on Titan Manga Sells Over 30 Million
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yukimasuka
Posts: 44 |
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Wait, a 83% sell-through rate? That seems wrong. What about the 30% overprinting and 40% return rate? I though that is how the publishing business work. 
Jokes aside, I will be surprise if AoT is below OP in the first half ranking. |
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pykrete
Posts: 145 |
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^ I told you already that there's a difference between print runs and actual copies sold.
And these days, when people pay more attention to Oricon and Nielsen, publishers are more likely to understate print runs rather than overestimate, because it's embarrassing when you go around bragging that you printed out 1 million copies and Oricon says we can only verify 500k sold. Just look at this article. It says blah blah in January who and who said that Shingeki has 30m in print, but by April 20 - Oricon verified 30m copies sold. Even One Piece gets some grief when people point out 4 million in print, but by end of the year only 3 million sold. |
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bigivel
 Posts: 536 |
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So basically you're saying that Shueisha was deceiving everybody pre-Oricon but it corrected everything pos-Oricon, right? Not only are you defaming Shueisha, but you're defaming every publishing company as well. And tell me how Oricon didn't caught on that, and if it caught why didn't it reported? You calculate, sales / print, that is the difference(in percentage) between sales and print, but you say there is a difference between the two. Of course there is, you're calculating it, and your calculation says that there is only a 17% difference between print and sales. What happened in reality was an underestimation and not an overestimation. The other company, Nikkei, a financial news source, probably to be safe, only reported print numbers of 30M. Oricon verified that the print numbers were in reality more than that and that the 30M were in fact sales. It has nothing to do with Overestimation, and is believed that Oricon underestimate sales all the time(you even said it should be around 20% in another post). One Piece printing 4M and selling 3M in a year is a 25% difference, and note that Oricon sales report have a error margin, right? And volumes aren't only sold for a year, so this is a good thing for Shueisha that doesn't have to make multiple prints during at least the first year. |
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sim0n2170
Posts: 153 |
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Why does the wiki say 36m
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pykrete
Posts: 145 |
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^^ It is standard operating procedure for publishing companies to hype with print numbers. While they're dead silent about the returns rate, the remainders rate and how many copies end up pulped.
So, no, they're not lying. They're just omitting talking about the other factors which would lower-kill the hype for their product. Or bring shame to it. And yes, these days, with the internet and more interest in Oricon numbers than print numbers - they have to be more careful. People these days are already automatically suspicious that companies are over-hyping. Also people are more environment-conscious and do not like the idea of publishers overprinting to increase the retail space for their books. Think of the trees. |
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yukimasuka
Posts: 44 |
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Facepalm. I thought you were better than this. I was wrong. Your hatred for OP is showing. |
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pykrete
Posts: 145 |
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^ I do not hate OP. I even think its Oricon sales post-2008 is underestimated.
As for Japan (because it's Japan) not overestimating, overspeculating and so forth - I don't even understand the pedestal its being put on. The bubble it went through in the 80's to 90's was so bad that it took a decade and more to recover from it. And it's not as if Japanese manga and anime companies didn't have any participation in the rise and crash of the anime-manga industry in the USA. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Uh, what? Nothing he said was even controversial, let alone incorrect. |
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yukimasuka
Posts: 44 |
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Not in this thread. animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2833172&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45 Enjoy. His math for AoT contradicts with what he said in the thread above. Btw, he has never once tried to calculate the sale number for one piece. He denies my math even though I use his method of calculating. @pykrete Where are you getting these info? Give me sources. Nvm, I don't even trust your source since you tried to pass them off as something else in the other thread. Good thing I checked them. Do you even see the inconsistency in what you said? -40% return rate and 30% overprint in 2012-2013 on average. -AoT is currently 17% below its circulation. -what is so special about AoT and so average about OP that OP must follow the data you give out? -btw, for the last time current OP vol is 25% below its circulation. Not 40%, not 30%, but 25%!!! |
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pykrete
Posts: 145 |
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^ Jesus Christ
My math for Shingeki is based on SALES information. Your math for OP pre-2008 is based on PRINTED NUMBERS. You still don't get it. |
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bigivel
Posts: 536 |
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36M is print number while 30.37 is the sales! Basically Kodansha made 36 Million books of Attack on Titan and 30.37 Million of those were already bought by customers. The rest are in the stores or in storage. |
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bigivel
Posts: 536 |
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Sales and Print. Where did you get 36M? I believe that is print number. If it isn't than is a mysterious number. |
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pykrete
Posts: 145 |
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I only use the print number if I want to calculate sell-through ratio. For sales, I just use sales data. Btw, the last time I calculated OP sell-through rate for post 2008 -it was around 90% which I thought was too high and thus I think One Piece printed more copies post 2008 and used up stock-pile from 2007 and before. With 20% underestimate for Oricon sales, I even think its sell through rate for post 2008 is over 100%. So yes, I'd prefer to not be labeled as an OP hater. Cause this looks more like OP-hyping. |
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bigivel
Posts: 536 |
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All of that was assumptions and was talking of the overall industry(Manga industry), but was being made as a case for a single company(Shueisha, more precisely Weekly Shonen Jump). Basically what he said is that Shueisha One Piece print numbers before Oricon in 2008, where all wrong and were all overestimation, so Shueisha in fact deceived all those years the store owners. He has no proof nor any reason to think that is true. The values given for One Piece print numbers, before and after Oricon, merge very well and Oricon never said nothing about such thing(wouldn't it be the first target of Oricon to correct the overestimation of the best selling manga of Japan?). Given that, why should be the default to think that the previous values are wrong. If you don't believe in those values than you believe in what? Anything, other than them? |
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bigivel
Posts: 536 |
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I'm not calling you OP hater. So you don't use wrong number if they are alone, but you use them if they are followed by a correct one? That is strange, really strange, and wrong. "Btw, the last time I calculated OP sell-through rate for post 2008 -it was around 90% which I thought was too high and thus I think One Piece printed more copies post 2008 and used up stock-pile from 2007 and before." So you assume over an assumption, and because of that you disregard the values that you have. Not only you think that the print number is incorrect, but you assume that the difference between print and sales number should be around 20%(or something of the genre), and because the number say is only around 10%, you disregard the data. You even assume that it picked from before 2008, but do you understand that because you're using total print numbers the pre-2008 print were already included? It seems like a conspiracy theory. So Shueisha overhyped the numbers before. Than Oricon arrived, and Shueisha secretively stored a lot of those copies printed. Then One Piece had a Boom of popularity, and so Shueisha used those missing copies, but didn't add them to their total print numbers. While all of that happened Oricon didn't caught anything of what was happening, but you did. |
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