Forum - View topicINTEREST: Traffic Accidents Top List of Causes of Death for Isekai Protagonists
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Moderator
 Posts: 18222 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yeah, I wonder about both the banana and "tanker truck in classroom" cases, too.
Wonder where on the list "So I'm A Spider, So What?" falls, given that it was death due to a dimensional rift caused by a Hero/Demon King battle. Anyway, this is all just some random person's arbitrary classifications, so we shouldn't expect anything for specifics. Still, it's interesting both as a breakdown and as an indicator of how many of those kind of stories are out there. |
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0nsen
 Posts: 256 |
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Classic.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Interesting, so there is some ambiguity between them too, depending on whom you speak to. Me, the source I had was Story by Robert McKee. I can't quote the book anymore as I no longer have it, but though he doesn't define a "hero," he defines the "protagonist" as the character whom the story is centered around the most, and while there can be multiple protagonists, he says it's very rare (but uses The Seven Samurai as an example of a story in which multiple characters get roughly equal screentime). Using Robert McKee's definition, in Fairy Tail, only Natsu can be the protagonist if you take the entire series as a whole, though there are stories within told from Lucy's point of view in which she would be the protagonist. McKee defines a "main character" as a character with great importance to the story who cannot easily be replaced with another character without it severely affecting the story. A main character can also be a protagonist, a deuteragonist (Lucy would definitely be the deuteragonist), a tritagonist, a villain, an antagonist, or any other number of character types. He considers it identical to a "primary character." Most stories have at least two main characters but can have many. This is in contrast to a "secondary character," a character who is significant but not important; and a "tertiary character" and "extra," who are mostly there in the background, may interact with a main character sometimes but not often, and are interchangeable. Since August uses Superman as an example, I'll use the franchise as a whole to further clarify how I have been taught (as I studied narratology in college): Superman/Clark Kent - Protagonist, hero, main character Lois Lane - Deuteragonist (depending on how you see it), main character Lex Luthor - Villain, antagonist, deuteragonist (depending on how you see it), main character Jimmy Olsen - Tritagonist, hero, main character Lana Lang - Secondary character Mom and Pop Clark - Secondary character Bizarro - Villain, secondary character, antagonist of specific stories Boss of Daily Planet (forgot his name) - Secondary character Krypto - Tertiary character (though protagonist of his own series) Livewire - Villain, tertiary character (because she rarely appears and has limited character potential), antagonist of specific stories Random people Superman saves - Extras Say, what would John August define as a "secondary character," as it sounds like from his set of definitions, there can only be one "main character"? |
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KH91
Posts: 6176 |
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lol at Truck-kun.
lol I know at least one of them. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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This list presumably includes light novels that haven't been adapted (yet). I, too, want to know the stories behind the most mysterious deaths--Japanese sugar figure, mochi, banana...has anyone been sent to another world from Death by Chocolate? 
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Swinging back, works can also easily lack a Hero, a Villain or both. In many cases, the "Environment" takes up the role of the Antagonist; in others, the Protagonist will simply come into conflict without taking up the moral roles. There also exist vignettes that don't have anything to fill the Antagonist role; it might be a side story to flesh out a character who's part of a larger Narrative, but is likely to be some form of independent character study(or Cute Girls Doing Cute Things). |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13567 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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For a plot twist with the Fuuka manga, how would you feel/react spoiler[upon learning your current girlfriend's dad was the truck driver that fatally hit your first girlfriend?]
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Well, there's the real-life case of a school bus driver intentionally running over the dog of two of the kids on the bus. 
Death Note is an excellent example of that, as Light has all the traits of a villain but the story is centered around him (thus making him the protagonist according to McKee's definition of the word) while L, although in a morally gray area, more or less fulfills the role of a hero in the story, but Death Note is told from Light's point of view, and you are encouraged to side with him and see how he overcomes the obstacles placed before him.
That's why narratologists will frequently use the term "antagonistic force" rather than "antagonist," as what opposes the character(s) we follow is not necessarily another character. This link provides five different types of conflicts that encompass all conflicts in stories: 1. Man vs. Man (one character directly opposes another--most stories are this) 2. Man vs. Nature (may be natural disasters, a hostile environment, or an animal) 3. Man vs. Society (someone who thinks differently or realizes something no one else has) 4. Man vs. Himself (conflict is mostly internal--Greek tragedies often fall here) 5. Man vs. Technology (problems are created through new or high technology) Some will reduce it down to just three, consisting of Man vs. Man, Nature, and Himself, in which "Nature" is anything nonsentient and unintelligent. In this, Man vs. Society would be part of Man vs. Man (many men...and usually many women too), and Man vs. Technology would be either vs. Man or vs. Nature, depending on if the opposing party is sentient or not. The term "antagonist" refers to a specific character, and the protagonist cannot also be the antagonist (unless they are split personalities and treated as separate characters, such as in a certain Chuck Palahniuk novel with soap in it that got adapted into a movie), and thus can only apply to Man vs. Man. That being said, most stories are as such (if there is a character you can call a "villain," chances are it's that), but there are enough stories that aren't that eventually, people who study storytelling moved from "antagonist" to "antagonistic force," as the latter can cover all five types. One Punch Man, for instance, is a Man vs. Himself story, as what Saitama is trying to overcome is his feeling that he is incomplete and feels unfulfilled, which is a much more significant conflict for him than the bad guys he fights. (It is also an example of a story with villains without it being Man vs. Man, though it is that for each specific arc). His ennui, then, becomes the antagonistic force. That being said, there ARE stories with no antagonistic force, which in turn means there is no conflict. I am no viewer of slice-of-life Cute Girls Doing Cute Things anime, but I am sure at least some of them have nothing in the way of the characters we follow in any major way that they must overcome. |
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harminia
 Posts: 2006 Location: australia |
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I knew I had read something with banana peel death! Thanks for reminding me it was that. Anyway, truck-kun needs to work harder. Meanwhile I feel like the death from overwork stories are increasing which isn't a great sign |
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