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Siegfriedl88
Joined: 22 Jun 2017
Posts: 347
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 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:10 pm
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i know im looking forward too getting it, because i never had too chance too play the original since i never owned a wii u.
but i can understand the hate towards too anti censorship people, every game i am getting people seem too just whine about it every.single.one, be it sirens crotch in ff 8 or catherine's dialog changes etc....not worth the effort for me too get mad at them though, complaining is a hobby too some people apparently.
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GNPixie
Joined: 25 Jul 2018
Posts: 303
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:41 pm
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| Quote: | | Atlus released the game in Japan for the Wii U in December 2015. Atlus USA shipped the game in North America in June 2016. |
Minor correction but ATLUS didn't ship the game; it was Nintendo. They only did the localization. And before people put the blame, the-then PR rep for ATLUS USA confirmed all of the changes were on Nintendo's part.
| AiddonValentine wrote: | |
Pbbbt, these guys need to learn some self-awareness. I figured that was going to happen and, overall, nothing important was lost when the game was localized the first time around. |
Eh. That depends. Idol culture in Japan often does include the concept of 'gravure' which is what the big change in Chapter 2 was about. I could understand maybe changing it initially because of the idea being foreign to the "west" but the fact they aged up the characters (to probably avoid any issues in the first place) in addition to changing up the narrative of that chapter directly makes one of Tsubasa's specials make zero sense, considering she never wears that outfit at any point in the western release outside of maybe that one super-minor sequence promoting Amrita.
It's not like the replacement outfit was any better either. If anything, it looked 100% more trashy IMO. But the wedding dress absolutely takes the cake for mind boggling decisions.
Last edited by GNPixie on Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nyren
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 703
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:46 pm
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I can be counted among the number that won't be getting it. I didn't get the Wii U version either. I was interested in the game, still am, but I just can't agree with the changes made to the US version originally, that have been kept the second time around despite the fact they'd probably sell more if they reversed them, and then to add insult to injury they reverse localized the game for the Japanese audience using the censored content, in a country where the game was originally uncensored. And they still expect to sell the same or more in Japan?
If you're still gonna buy the game, that's fine. To each their own, everyone's got their reasons no matter how dumb you think they may be. I hope you enjoy it. I probably would too if I bought it and played it. I just can't agree with changing content no matter the reason.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2227
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:58 pm
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| GNPixie wrote: | |
Eh. That depends. Idol culture in Japan often does include the concept of 'gravure' which is what the big change in Chapter 2 was about. I could understand maybe changing it initially because of the idea being foreign to the "west" but the fact they aged up the characters in addition to changing up the narrative of that chapter directly makes one of Tsubasa's specials make zero sense, considering she never wears that outfit at any point in the western release outside of maybe that one super-minor sequence promoting Amrita.
It's not like the replacement outfit was any better either. If anything, it looked 100% more trashy IMO. But the wedding dress absolutely takes the cake for mind boggling decisions. |
Except the reason they did it was clear: sexualizing Tsubasa, a high school girl, was not okay. It has never been okay and never will be okay. Furthermore, the point about the antagonist for that chapter being obsessive over Maiko was not lost. So again, nothing of importance was lost.
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GNPixie
Joined: 25 Jul 2018
Posts: 303
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:07 pm
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| AiddonValentine wrote: | |
Except the reason they did it was clear: sexualizing Tsubasa, a high school girl, was not okay. It has never been okay and never will be okay. Furthermore, the point about the antagonist for that chapter being obsessive over Maiko was not lost. So again, nothing of importance was lost. |
Then why age her up to 18, the age of consistent in most parts of the world, and still edit it?
I've seen far more cringe worthy stuff at high school and beaches than what was originally in the game.
Last edited by GNPixie on Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nate148
Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 472
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:10 pm
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Because A: she is still a kid in many ways and B: This is the 2nd thing she does as a idol. also the west is not up on idol's hell most anime fan's are not up on idols in this way.
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strawberry-kun
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 301
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:13 pm
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Not to mention that there’s sexualization even with the changes. It’s toned down, but it’s still there.
Here’s a rhetorical question for no one specifically. If you have such a problem with the game, why even have interest in it even with the censorship? Aren’t you still supporting a company that created a game that sexualized minors?
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Minos_Kurumada
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1043
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:19 pm
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Its most probably cheaper to use the US version for whatever reason, Nintendo doesn't give a damn about this kind of stuff anymore.
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Nyren
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 703
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:25 pm
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| strawberry-kun wrote: | | Not to mention that there’s sexualization even with the changes. It’s toned down, but it’s still there.
Here’s a rhetorical question for no one specifically. If you have such a problem with the game, why even have interest in it even with the censorship? Aren’t you still supporting a company that created a game that sexualized minors? |
Are we still talking about TMS or are we talking about practically the entire Japanese side of the gaming industry?
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DavetheUsher
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:32 pm
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: | | I don't remember hearing anything being removed from the remasters of Yakuza 3 or 4. Outside of them replacing the actor who played Tanimura for petty reasons. |
Yakuza remaster removed some trans joke quests and dialog too.
| strawberry-kun wrote: | | Am I the only one that finds it funny that people are complaining about people raging about censorship and yet the most aggressive posts in this thread aren’t even from anti-censorship people? |
No, that's... kinda always been the case. People who make fun of angry gamers when they themselves seem to be in a perpetual stage of anger themselves. I guess in their eyes if a person complains about censorship it's bad, but when they get angry at a game like Atelier Ryza or Code Vein having sexy women in it to the point they obsessively talk about it for weeks on end and how much they hate otaku pandering it's acceptable. I don't really get it myself. I mean, the whole Full Body thing was the culmunation of people spending 8 years of their life complaining about jokes in a video game. That's kind of a lot of anger.
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Lizuka
Joined: 27 Jul 2018
Posts: 261
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:33 pm
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Hard pass. Not due to the reduced fanservice, don't really care, but due to the story changes.
Though really it's not that big a deal. The fan retranslation is very easy to get ahold of.
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strawberry-kun
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 301
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:38 pm
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| Nyren wrote: | | Are we still talking about TMS or are we talking about practically the entire Japanese side of the gaming industry? |
First part was about TMS. Second part was more of a point about how edits in general are a stupid solution that please no one. If Nintendo wanted the game to be less problematic, they should have worked with Atlus to make sure the content met their standards to begin with.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2227
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:39 pm
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| strawberry-kun wrote: | | Not to mention that there’s sexualization even with the changes. It’s toned down, but it’s still there.
Here’s a rhetorical question for no one specifically. If you have such a problem with the game, why even have interest in it even with the censorship? Aren’t you still supporting a company that created a game that sexualized minors? |
Here's the thing: someone can both have problems with a game and still like it. That's not being hypocritical, that's being an adult who realizes that things aren't a zero-sum game. You can criticize a company while still supporting it. For the most part companies and creators will listen to good faith criticism when confronted with mistakes they made.
Furthermore, the reason people liked the game was that it was a crazy mashup that was pretty inventive and did some neat things with both series in terms of gameplay and characters. It was essentially Nintendo's version of Sakura Wars (then Sakura Wars got a new game, so this is retroactively hilarious) what with it being campy, colorful, and silly. It's just a fun ride.
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encrypted12345
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 718
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:42 pm
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There is some interesting speculation that part of the reason for the censorship coming even to the Japanese version is so that they can have a single global version that is able to conform to Chinese standards. If that is the case, it may be possible that content will be restricted in future first party Nintendo games to conform to Chinese standards, and that likely includes both fan service and LGBT content. This doesn't affect Mario or most Nintendo franchises, but it would affect Fire Emblem. I wouldn't mind if Nintendo simply made a version that conformed to Chinese standards and one that was fine with the rest of the world, but it's cheaper to make one version and simply be done with it.
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Nyren
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 703
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Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:48 pm
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| strawberry-kun wrote: |
| Nyren wrote: | | Are we still talking about TMS or are we talking about practically the entire Japanese side of the gaming industry? |
First part was about TMS. Second part was more of a point about how edits in general are a stupid solution that please no one. If Nintendo wanted the game to be less problematic, they should have worked with Atlus to make sure the content met their standards to begin with. |
I wouldn't even really call the content problematic. The fanservice is no better or worse than any other JRPG on the market and there are plenty of anime that go even farther without being outright hentai. TMS is honestly fairly tame in that department. And the message of chapter 2 was originally about being comfortable with your body rather than ashamed or embarrassed by it. You'd think that'd be a really positive message, but to my knowledge the whole chapter was practically gutted and the message changed. And that's honestly my biggest gripe with the whole thing, not to mention the needless smokescreen over some characters that just disappears in the next shot anyway. It was really half-baked censorship. If they fully restored Chapter 2 and the wedding dress, I may be able to live with the game as it is, but as it stands it's just ridiculous.
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