Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - The Rise and Evolution of Old Classic Dubs
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YagamiBlackstone255
Posts: 86 |
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Well if you feel free to paint "dub haters" with such a brush then I must certainly respond in kind. -Art is never for everyone, it evokes different responses in everyone. Some like it, some hate it. You cant modify art just to make it appeal to a nebulous "everyone" -What is okay to do, is soften up some aspects of it so its okay to broadcast. This is okay but it is NOT improving the show. 4kids thought they did and look what happened to them. And Saban too! Saban doesnt exist anymore because every single property of theirs flopped, including Digimon and Pretty Cure. -I think what makes the Digimon English dub endure is that it knew when to be true to the Japanese version while also keeping it for kids. NOT any of the added jokes. -Davis and Yolei's characters in particular are DESTROYED in the English dub. They are impossible to like and this had made people hate them unfairly. Heck I used to wonder why people loathed the entire season so much and it is because of the dub. -It's hilarious that you say people who criticize the dub are "Dub haters" since Discotek would NOT release a new uncut dub if people didn't want a more faithful version. -I am not a dub hater, I grew up with the Latin American dub. And that was the Latin American Version that's pretty much the Japanese version but in Lat AM Spanish. -The only dubs with added jokes I like are Samurai Pizza Cats and Super Pig. Second, I feel extremely sad at seeing Nick and Chris make fun of the Canadian Pretty Cure dub. Its a very well made dub. I think its the best kids aimed dub ever made. All the allure of the Japanese version with some Saturday Morning feel dub dialogue that feels genuinely funny and not awful and condescending. And no they dont "Improve the show" but are extremely careful not to ruin it either. You might make fun of "Natalie Blackstone and Hanna Whitehouse" but Nagisa Misumi and Honoka Yukishiro are JUST as punny to Japanese kids which is something that apparently was lost on people. In fact I will say what Mike O Toole said. And I am not even kidding when I say it "I want Hannah Goddamn Whitestone and Natalie Bloody Blackstone on Blu-Ray, dagnabbit!" Make it happen Discotek! And bring back Rocio Barahona and Michelle Molineux for the Max Heart Movies while you are at it! |
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Gwydion
Posts: 156 |
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I really appreciated this back and forth, not shying away from the fact that Digimon did add its own jokes for better or worse but acknowledging that it ultimately remained true to the heart of the story being told. As someone who loves both the English and Japanese versions, it was refreshing to hear amidst a fandom that has felt very divided between English dub lovers and purists for a long time now.
Joshua Seth (Tai) - as well as a lot of the original Digimon cast - did quite a bit of work on "straight" dubs. For examples you could look at his work as Tetsuo in the 2001 dub of "Akira" or Hige from "Wolf's Rain" (or even just the Tri/Kizuna movies as he's in those and the scripts are more faithful to the original Japanese script). Michael Reisz (Matt) was Rock in "Metropolis", and if you look into "Wolf's Rain" listen for Mona Marshall (Izzy) as Toboe. If you can't get excited about the redub due to being unable to picture the original cast with a more serious script, I would recommend looking into their other work. Maybe they'll pleasantly surprise you. |
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YagamiBlackstone255
Posts: 86 |
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Yes! Yes! YES! Please dub the Max Heart Movies! The Pretty Cure fandom will love you FOREVER DISCOTEK!!! |
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Southkaio
Posts: 348 |
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The Latin American Spanish dub of PPGZ also recasts HIM and Fuzzy Lumpkins, to name a few. |
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Hagaren Viper
Posts: 773 |
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The Digimon fandom collectively lost it's mind over the dub announcement to the point where there was more buzz about it than the full trailer for the new 02 The Beginning movie the same day. Plus it's going to use the same style of subbing they've used since Tri - completely uncut and a faithful but looser script, which people have been fine with. Discotek probably knows their audience better than any other licensing anime company if we're being honest. |
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KlarkKentThe3rd
Posts: 108 |
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That was quite a long transcribed correspondence.
I won't be selling my firstborn, or even secondborn, but I would pay a lot for officially and properly (with care) subbed release of the original Pokemon series (the seasons Takeshi Shudo oversaw). Watching hardsubbed 640x480 files is just not optimal (especially when the subber's personal choices get too personal). I know the first episode was remastered and released in Japan with one of the movies, and I know it is possible to remaster all of them. And before anyone mentions THE porygon, that episode can be included as an extra, with a warning. OR, with a simple masking tool, the seizure effect can be swapped for something better. Ideally, there would be a partial redub, to fix the censored/weak parts (the 4Kids dub was actually mostly great), but I know that is not happening since season 1 was already released in the west anyway. P.S. Ironic that the removed porygon episode indirectly lead to Mewtwo Strikes Back being as good as it was. |
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YagamiBlackstone255
Posts: 86 |
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I think you meant DUBBING here but otherwise I agree. There are people who wanted better dubs for years and people use narratives to erase them. |
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Primus
Posts: 2778 Location: Toronto |
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You don't see dubs like the original Digimon's anymore because anime largely isn't marketed towards kids in the anglosphere and hasn't been for a long time. I mean, just look at the recent Digimon shows. They either don't get dubbed, or get a lowkey streaming release targeted at adults. There are a few reasons for that. From the teen/adult market opening up, to struggles with distribution partners, to Japan just prioritizing late-night anime production to the detriment of everything else. What is still promoted to kids are cross-generational merchandise-driven IPs: Bakugan, Beyblade, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi-Oh. The youngest of those is over 15 years old now. Half still hold onto the localization methods of old (replacement scores, edits, renames), while the other half are either co-productions or designed for global audiences.
You still see the old mindset pop up now and then when new brands are attempted. This article already focuses heavily on Pretty Cure, but LBX was undoubtedly the most extensively edited show of the '10s. Yo-Kai Watch and Zoids Wild had their alterations in both content and character names, though they weren't as dramatically altered as they might've been in the past.
There are a couple of other minor things. The original Macross has received multiple uncut releases in the US and even has its own dub separate from Robotech. Additionally, all of Medabots was dubbed into English. Yes, it's edited, but I don't know why anyone would want a re-dub of the second series over the first. That one's not good in any language. The theme song and some character designs are the only really amusing bits. |
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GNPixie
Posts: 310 |
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What they did with Danball Senki pisses me off to this day because it basically prevented us getting W (either the anime or the game) and considering the cuts the first season got, they wouldn't have even touched Wars given the entire premise is a full scale proxy war between real countries using the war game premise as a way to keep the kids in the dark. At the very least, Bandai should've continued with the kits but that didn't even happen. I would've bought all of the Wars kits without a second thought, doubly so if meant we got a Dot Blastrizer G-EXT that's actually affordable rather than verging on the cost of an MG Gunpla. |
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YagamiBlackstone255
Posts: 86 |
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Yeah I was wondering why that poster only wanted the second series dubbed and not the first. Maybe they liked the dub of the first season? |
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Top Gun
Posts: 4621 |
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I don't really understand why the Ghost Stories dub was getting dragged in here, given how different its situation was than most of the other shows that were discussed. I mean, the original series was essentially Japanese Scooby-Doo, a low-budget "spooky" show aimed at elementary school kids. It's not the sort of thing that had any sort of widespread appeal among anime fans then or now, and almost no one would have known or cared about its existence if not for ADV's dub of it. I've heard mixed reports of how it even fell into ADV's lap in the first place, whether it was a package deal with a show they actually wanted or something that the Japanese producers sought to release, but what's clear is that said producers didn't care what ADV did with it so long as they got paid, and a whole bunch of people thought the results were hilarious. I can't see how there's any sort of market for a faithful redub of a mediocre-looking 20+-year-old kids' show.
Escaflowne is another case where a redub never made any sense to me. The "director's cut" version of the series consists of less than 10 total minutes' worth of largely-inconsequential new scenes scattered across the first several episodes. Funi could have easily included those scenes as a separate bonus feature, or even better, gone to Ocean Studios to get as many original cast members as possible to dub those scenes, which would have presumably been fairly cheap to do. Instead, they chose to redub the entire series from scratch for the sake of those 10 minutes in what felt like a vanity project (especially given some of the casting...McRapey as Folken, really?), and in a truly bizarre move proceeded to do the whole thing as a Kickstarter project. I have no idea what they were going for, but I do know that I have no interest in listening to their attempt when the original dub (in its uncut form) was just fine. |
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1dbad
Posts: 710 Location: Texas |
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I wish the series itself had gotten redubbed instead, but I guess this is the next best thing? Though as a fan who's only seen Digimon subbed, I'm more interested in these movies getting their first ever sub release than I am a dub that's trying to balance between faithful and Saban-esque.
I remember the Clear Card dub team stated a series redub was possible if Clear Card sold well, but I take it either the show underperformed, or Netflix got in the way. (Speaking of, still SHOCKED they didn't redub it) As for the rest, even a sub-only home video release would be a dream come true. But it would be cool to see the Canadian Pretty Cure preserved. It's easily the best localized kids dub I've ever seen, and it makes me sad how rarely it's brought up in kids anime dub discussions.
Yeah, Discotek mentioned previous sub-only releases of kids anime underperformed. But that seems to be changing? I've noticed the sub releases of Shaman King, Sonic X, and Digimon Adventure are listed as a Best Seller on sites like Rightstuf, so it seems they're selling better than they used to.
Blander characters? I'd actually say that's more true of the dub. Edited dubs tend to simplify characters into one-note archetypes, while there's usually more nuance and character development present in the Japanese versions.
Because Discotek is a small company with a limited budget. They've never dubbed a title longer than one cour, and most of what they have dubbed have been specials or movies. I imagine that's likely why Sound Cadence is their go-to studio as well. It's probably more affordable than other studios. |
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Primus
Posts: 2778 Location: Toronto |
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Dentsu actually tried dubbing W. The first 26 episodes (compiled from 41 episodes of the Japanese version) actually aired on Nicktoons, just without any on-screen distinction. It ends in an unresolved tease. Alongside Doraemon, that show's dub is probably one of the only 2010s American productions to just get memory-holed. It solely aired on television in the US and streamed on Nicktoons' site. No home video release, either physical or digital anywhere. Even things like Scan2Go and the B-Daman reboot series were either streamed officially on YouTube or got an iTunes release. Who knows if that will ever change since it clearly wasn't a success. There are uncut dubs of the original LBX shows produced in Hong Kong for Animax, so I guess that's an avenue if anyone wants to release them. It's possible Dentsu produced a less hacked-up dub. Blue Water's Alberta casting site has the show listed under two separate entries. One has 26 episodes. The other is listed as 78. There's no guarantee that wasn't just a typo (Zeta Gundam's also listed twice), but the 78-episode entry dates back to 2012. The dub debuted on Nicktoons two years later and the two hackjob seasons don't total 78 episodes. Though, I don't think that many episodes of LBX even existed in 2012.
Ikki's voice actor was replaced for the second series. Julie Lemieux is a solid actress, but it's a different voice. The thing is, Damashii just isn't a good show. His original voice actress may or may not be acting again, but it's hard to say if she'd sound the same 20+ years later - especially given she isn't regularly doing voice work.
It's an interesting contrast. Much of the edited dubs were trying to make a show as marketable to Anglosphere kids TV as possible. Ghost Stories was the inverse - taking a kids' show and trying to make it marketable to the audience buying DVDs of stuff that didn't air on TV. |
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KlarkKentThe3rd
Posts: 108 |
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Funny reading that, Ghost Game is perfectly child friendly, as long as the children aren't 5, and aren't pampered. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14796 |
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No Samurai Pizza Cats?
The search for the 8th Digidestined Child was a big deal back then - even Fox Kids ads about it aired on other networks Sailor Moon was localized all around the world (ya should see the different languages OPs). Didn't stop it from becoming a phenomenon in many countries |
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