Forum - View topicAnime Expo 2008 - Industry roundtable: Fansubs - The Death of Anime?
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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How is it that you apparently can't detect sarcasm? I was really referring to MW's post, where he posted a brief statement, then after I countered, he didn't use a rebuttal but rather YOUR statement, and acted like he won the argument, although he conveniently quoted only a portion of your quote, while the part I quoted shows, "okay, maybe not 'stealing'. but still illegal". I don't know why you're attacking me when I wasn't even talking to you, rather simply quoting you. But anyway, the article quote holds true. Even if it's not 'stealing' (and I raise an eyebrow at such a notion, but whatever), it's still illegal, and so, you can explain it, but you can't justify it. |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1820 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Sorry about that, but the board doesn't indicate which post you're replying to. |
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doctordoom85
Posts: 2093 |
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Gotcha. I think this was all the result of some confusion. When MW first posted, his post made it sound like he thought lawyers would say fansubbing is perfectly legal, when it fact he probably meant to say that they would argue that fansubbing is illegal but not considered actual "stealing". And the rest is history..... So I hope we're cool. You know, as cool as people can be on "potential for future flaming" threads such as these..... 
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fuuma_monou
Posts: 1820 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Probably didn't help on my end that there was a bit of tension in the office earlier. I don't know who came up with it first, but I've heard the Internet called the Electronic Arguing Machine. |
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doctordoom85
Posts: 2093 |
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It's all good. Hope your weekend is better. |
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 367 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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With one of the big complaints (and an apparent cause of fansubbing) facing the North American market being that in Japan, they can watch anime on TV, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever considered the idea of a web-based TV channel? It seemed to me that the biggest problem with things like the Anime Network's linear service or the FUNimation Channel is that most fans don't have access to them because so few cabel and satelite providers would pick them up. And if they did pick them up, it would only be on one station for a couple hours once per week. But if you had the exact same thing, but web-based, then any anime fan with an internet connection could sign up for it.
I dunno if the idea has come up before and been horribly shot down, but it makes sense in my head, and I would seriously consider signing up for something like that as long as it wasn't prohibitively expensive. |
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taropsyche
Posts: 2 |
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A little OT first off, but I registered just for this topic, so please be gentle with me.
I came into the fansub demographic alittle late into the game and so I guess my views are skewed, but I understand both sides of the fence. I love that alot of the common arguments were brought up in this panel and even thought at the end of the day most of these issues wont be solved easily I hope for a possible resolution eventually. :: This is the non informative history that I'm going to be long winded on and shouldn't be taken as being justifiable to what I do. I marked it as spoiler so that the commenters that want to get down to the meat and potatoes of my comments can do so. :: spoiler[ I came into Anime via TV originally back in the day when Sailor Moon came on just before school and later on Tenchi were we got Dish. When I got into Tenchi I noticed when I bought my DVD that the content was different from what I saw on TV as apposed to what was in my possession. Openings and closing credits where and are a huge thing for me, the uncensored parts and the additional scenes that I didn't know about or wouldn't have known about shocked me. At that point in time the big push on Cut VS Uncut really wasn't noted and the care meter didn't really come into effect. Through out the years I started growing my anime collection with good stuff and stuff that if I had seen on tv I would have probably just seen and not really cared to buy on dvd. At about that time I started getting into subs and my views on anime changed. My viewer ship changed and I wanted to basically have nothing to do with dubbed anime even though I acknowledge what the dub actors do and do appreciate what they do as a career and for the industry. More time passed and when I got heavily into sites like AnimeOnDVD and AnimeNewsNetwork I discovered about even more anime that expanded my anime views. Then Netflix happened and I didn't have to buy stuff that sucked and they had stuff that even Blockbuster or Hollywood Video would never think of putting on their shelves. Evolution happened again and I discovered new anime that would come out and I wouldn't really get a chance to just see it until it was even considered for release here. I discovered sites like animesuki and anidb and got into new release stuff that just came out and would either IRC it or BT it. I still feel guilty about what I like, but I dont distribute after licensing would occur and most stuff would get deleted or id end up buyin the good stuff on dvd once it went to dvd. I think the hardest thing about getting a fansub and then getting a pressed dvd is things that are changed / or must be changed to complete the licensing process. My little guilty pleasures are the original credits and karaoke subs. I can understand both but I love the animation effect that are present on some animes as opposed to just pop-up credits. ] In the greatest sense I think being a fan that ends up finding out about the more content that is out there and finds out ways of viewing and acquiring it will probably have the greatest misfortune. We are in this same catch 22 that distributors are in that we are in. When ever I think about my issues I end up with about 5 or more IF sentences. IF I could legally view it when it is shown like it is on Japanese TV. (Cause they have options. They pay their cable bill; can either stay up past midnight to whatever butt crack of dawn hour that is safe for viewing objectionable content, VCR, or Tivo it.) IF their was some sort of buy now when they finish working on specific parts of the show that I would like to see and a coupon for a pressed copy plus additional fees if I was to have a pressed copy. (Ex. Say they sub episode 1. Allow people to download to own with the privilege to keep paying until the price is met [again example of say said series is 49.99 for a digital season pass]. Then pay like 20 bucks for the sending of a disc copy. Boxed copy is released at MSRP of 69.99 I got my anime and dont feel screwed about it.) IF their wasn't a issue with a broadcast VS DVD release. (broadcast DVD vs the original DVD. Again if I lived in japan I wouldn't have to had waited or been misled to obtain.) IF a tv series is dub only . . . . Not really an if, but Its a personal issue: That the Title sequence, eye catches credit graphics effects are changed. I know that this post is pretty much just one fan bitching and a good chunk of a lot of my personal issues could be because of a licensing issue IE Detective Conan being changed to Case Closed, but I donno maybe I should just make my checks payable to the US and Japan . . . . . . . . 
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taropsyche
Posts: 2 |
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On TJ_Kat's comment about web distro, it would be nice if Japaneses broadcasters could look into getting on Joost or other services.
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Commad
 Posts: 6 Location: Philadelphia, PA |
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I think one of the main points that the licensing companies fail to hold themselves accountable for, and would much rather blame fansubbing instead, is that the market is over saturated with crap anime that they spend money on producing, but just cannot sell. There are positives to having selection in the amount of titles available, especially for those looking for new or unknown titles to watch, but in my experience any anime worth watching already has a certain amount of buzz generated already; a lot of which can be linked to the distribution of fansubs.
The reason why most of the industry (here in the US especially) likes to talk about fansubs and how much they hate them/take away their revenue, but still do the bare minimum in enforcing their legal rights is because of the symbiotic relationship the industry has with fansubs. Besides, most fansubbing groups stop distribution when they're asked to anyways. Not all, but most. |
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RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
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I think the idea of a web-based anime system where you pay a monthly fee and get unlimited viewing time is a fantastic idea. Something like Netflix's Watch Instantly, but with a bigger selection of anime.
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Ambrogino
 Posts: 57 Location: York, England |
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I think any proposed solution to fansubbing needs to be able to address the international anime-watching community, and not just the North-American one, or it will end up failing anyway. If turnaround and digital distribution to the US and Canada get resolved, but Europe still ends up waiting another 18 months and isn't able to use the American web-based distribution (as it normally isn't - like for like prices show how high the rates of artifical price inflation and taxation are over here) then it will just shift the rest of the world from downloading mostly-illegall US-made fansubs to downloading totally-illegal US made official content.
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ConanSan
Posts: 1818 |
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If anime companies want to provide the first look that fansubs provide (and not make a total bitch to do so outside the US, more Gonzo/Crunchyroll's solution and less Toei/Adult Swim/every US provider ever's solution) then they should feel free to do so and I will feel free to watch with a view to buy.
But untill then, it's down to the undernet for me for first sight with a view to buy. There's no way in hell I'm buying sight unseen, that's the attitude that allows Gonzo to get away with the nonsence endings they often do. |
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1104 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Again, I have to point out that there should be an ad-based option for people. No matter how great a service is (and a service like this WOULD be fantastic), you will never win over a significant bulk of the potential audience if you have to force them to pay. |
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random intername
Posts: 1 |
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I have to say that I was amused by a table full of (supposedly) educated adults sitting at a table and complaining that people aren't paying for their inferior products months or years after the show originally aired. Theirs is truly an example of an A-plus business model.
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dizzcity
Posts: 8 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the major problem with digital distribution, ad-supported or DRM-enforced or otherwise, is the fact that the Japanese companies don't care about it.
It's not that the licensing companies haven't thought about it, or that they aren't trying to change their business model to suit the fans... it's that they're in a catch-22 situation where their suppliers don't think of changing the model, but their customers are clamouring for it. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't. So there doesn't seem to be much point in the fans trying to pressure the licensing companies to do something about this... it should be the fans approaching the Japanese anime-producing companies instead, to effect some change. Is there any way for the fans to connect more directly to the anime companies themselves, to ask them to work more closely with the licensing companies so that digital distribution (via whatever model) becomes more feasible? -Dizzy- |
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