Forum - View topicANNCast Holiday Special The Third: Part Deux
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Fifth B
 Posts: 213 |
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I'm going to jump in on the Wolf's Rain love, as that is the only thing discussed on this show which I have seen (aside from the Fifth Element but I haven't watched that years). That show really would be incomplete without that particular ending (in ways aside from the obvious), and I honestly don't think it could have ended any other way.
I personally didn't mind the human characters the first time I watched the show, but upon repeated viewings, I think they've grown on me quite a bit, and I even enjoy that episode which focuses on Hubb and Quent. I think a big part of that was realizing that a story about the apocalypse can't not include humanity in some form. After all, a story which deals with the world ending cannot do so successfully or completely without exploring the two main actors, humanity and nature, and their roles in the world, as well as their relationship. At least, that's what I thought. Also, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone in thinking that Wolf's Rain was Yoko Kanno's masterpiece. Great to hear that people appreciate Keiko Nobumoto and Mary McGlynn. They deserve it.
Whoa whoa whoa. As in Lain, Rahxephon, and Princess Tutu Chiaki Konaka? Chaki J. Konaka? Holy balls! I remember really liking Tamers when I was 10 or 11, and I guess that explains a few things! Between those Mamoru Hosoda movies and Tamers I might be taking a trip down nostalgia lane sometime sooner than expected!
Wouldn't that make somebody like something even more? |
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kawaiibunny3
 Posts: 534 Location: Houston, Texas |
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Watched To-Y just now based on the recommendation that it was good for 80's fans (thanks guys!)
I can definitely see where Justin's coming from when he views it as a character study, and maybe that would come through alot clearer if I had read the manga it's based on. but OAV alone, the people making it I think wanted to depend more on visuals like Zac said (maybe they figured they should stand out from the source material so they just made an hour long music video?) but whatever, I liked it 
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Melanchthon
 Posts: 550 Location: Northwest from Here |
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I hate Wolf's Rain. And not a good hate, like Berserk, but a complete, utter, contempt. And it has nothing to do with the recap episodes, since I skipped them. I hated how boring it was. Yeah, the end of the world sucks. I get it. You don't need to drag this out for so fricking long. And beginning was boring too. In other words, I felt a lot like how Zac described Match Factory Girl. But, really, I think the problem with Wolf's Rain is that it never convinced me to care about the characters. Since I didn't care about them, their dying struggles meant nothing to me. Also, it was a total sausagefest. Not really my thing. If you want a good show about the end of the world, try Saikano. To me, Wolf's Rain came across like a Faulkner novel: pretentious garbage.
Now, Windaria, I liked Windaria. I fact, I think I'm going to grab a glass of my poison of choice and re-watch it, or at least the last hour. I think I have the uncut Japanese version, but I didn't know the R1 release was so butchered. And I was entertaining the idea of buying it too. Well, that's out the window now. |
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Zump
Posts: 131 |
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On Windaria: I haven't seen it, but I think I have an idea of what Zac was talking about when he was describing the over-the-top tragic scenes in the film. Over-the-top tragedy seems to be a recurring trend in some anime, like in a lot of the Gundam series where characters will burst into tears and cry out the names of their recently fallen loved ones (e.g., spoiler[LALAAAAAHH!!!]).
This podcast has convinced me to revisit Wolf's Rain. I had been thinking about doing so for a while, and I think it's time I gave it another look. And the dub is one of the best ever produced. I'm glad that Justin gave due credit to both Keiko Nobumoto and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn, two very talented women who don't get nearly the recognition they deserve. I really wish they would get hired more often for writing/ADR directing. I agree that The Fifth Element holds up remarkably well, partially due to the combination of practical and CGI effects. And Ruby Rhod is all kinds of awesome. All night long! All niiight! 
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ZenAmako
Posts: 92 |
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I was watching the end of Shin Kimagure Orange Road again recently when I noticed that director Kunihiko Yuyama used the same "sunlight peeking through the tree" shot he used at the end of Windaria (Yuyama directed Windaria, Shin KOR, and... a bunch of Pokemon). Side note: Tohru Furuya was the voice actor for both Izu and Kyosuke.
When I first saw Windaria as a teen, I was also blown away by the tragic ending. It wasn't until much later that I saw Kenji Mizoguchi's classic Ugetsu and realized how much of the story in Windaria was borrowed from or inspired by the same stories that inspired the 1953 film. Windaria is basically an anime version of Ugetsu with some Romeo & Juliet thrown in (and a smidge of Nausicaa, of course). Things I still enjoy in Windaria: The dated but still attractive character designs by Mutsumi Inomata (Fantastic Adventure of Yoko: Leda), the animation by the late Kaname Pro (Windaria was the swan song for the studio), the soundtrack and the songs by Akino Arai (Macross Plus). I bought the region 2 DVD when it came out (which was a huge upgrade from the laserdisc), but I wouldn't sell it even at the current market price. |
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neocloud9
 Posts: 1178 Location: Atlanta, GA |
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Oh wow, Central Station sounds like exactly the kind of movie I would adore. Sad to hear about the terrible DVD quality, though. I'll try to track it down regardless...
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GATSU
Posts: 15367 |
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Justin: That's why I loved the hell out of that Nuku Nuku TV parody of M7, 'cus it so needed it. Though I knew someone who hated the original Macross, 'cus of Minmay, and preferred this show. [Kawamori was clearly being diplomatic when he said he liked both her and Basara when he was at AX. I am surprised the seiyuu for Basara ended up being so awesome as Guts in Berserk, though.] Though for all the hate Macek got on Robotech, he does deserve credit for coming up with the idea of Max and Miriya having a daughter first. Plus, if it helps, I knew an IRC user who wasn't into KOR.
Zac:
Well, Besson did visit Buichi Terasawa that year. 
As for anime I haven't caught up with yet, I've been slowly trying to finish Five Star Stories. And Ushia and Tora's rotting on my pile. And I didn't get into Dazed and Confused, 'cus it seemed to glamorize total douches, which gave me a hint about what I could expect from the 90s. Plus, I also would have liked Fifth Element more if it was Tucker-less. Everyone hates Jar Jar, but gives his shitty acting a pass. As for Observe and Report, I didn't see it yet, but I did dig this Spongebob mash-up.
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3492 Location: Back stateside |
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@Melanchthon:
It's interesting that you bring up Saikano as a counter to Wolf's Rain, since everything you said about Wolf's Rain I feel about Saikano. It's watching whiny (noseless) people suffer and die for thirteen episodes until the world ends. spoiler[Only, you don't get the concept of cyclical renewal the way Wolf's Rain does, which means that it's utterly nihilistic by the finale.] Saikano left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't see what the point of it was. It felt like misery for the sake of misery. But that just goes to show that different shows connect to people in different ways. |
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Zhou-BR
Posts: 1434 |
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Aw, man, because of my bad habit of skipping the non-anime-related portions of the podcast, I didn't notice you guys talked about Central Station. Nice recommendation, Justin! It's probably the Brazillian movie that came the closest to win a Best Foreign Picture Oscar, and Fernanda Montenegro even went on Letterman after she got nominated for Best Lead Actress. She lost to Gwyneth Paltrow, and pretty much everyone in Brazil thought she was robbed.
By the way, Vinícius de Oliveira (the young actor who played Josué) is still working as an actor, and thankfully didn't have the same fate as the lead actor from Pixote as Roger Ebert feared. His mother and his brother were arrested last year for credit card fraud, though.
Max and Milia's first daughter, Komilia, was born before the end of the first series, although I'll give you that Macek thought of the time skip first, simply because Kawamori wasn't interested in doing a Macross sequel back then. Last edited by Zhou-BR on Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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The discussion about the static camera scenes in Match Factory Girl had me smiling. It made me remember a somewhat recent film, Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans by Werner Herzog, where he parodied the technique in a couple of highly paranoid and funny scenes that involved spoiler[lizards].
I can recall internet discussions about that film where people were confused as to whether these scenes were intentionally funny, or if it was just Herzog messing with them. I think it was a little bit of both, since Herzog has used the technique before. |
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SoandSo
 Posts: 204 |
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I'll have to check out some of this stuff once I get chance. Macross 7 was always tantalizing cause it sounds like a total riot, I'm kind of a Macross fan, and if there's any series premise as ripe for piss-taking and parody as this one, I've yet to see it.(Honestly, Frontier had the opposite problem.)
Lovin' the shout-outs to Wolf's Rain, especially to Keiko Nobumoto. Lose Mari Okada and bring her back, please, Japan? Pretty please? Next to Ikuhara, Yoji Enokido, and Konaka(though I'm not crazy about him; his stuff tends to fray at the edges when it comes time to come together at the end or just make sense), she's one of the most fascinating screenwriters working in Japan and I'd love to see her make her return. Leaving a short-but-sweet resume is prefferable to a possibly dissapointing comeback, however. Few thoughts about the show; while I love it and own it, probably wouldn't put it on any fave lists. Part of it is that middle portion, yeah. It's still interesting and reveals some neat things about the characters, albeit at a glacial pace, but not quite deeply enough or satisfying enough to elevate it alongside other, richer but similarly-maligned middle-road narratives like the Black Rose saga in Utena. That, and growing up, I always found the wolf characters extremely alienating. I was watching the Adult Swim broadcast and wasn't used to the hours so would fade in and out, but I typically found their constant "durr those silly humans, they're lower than dogs, mistreating us and the planet" jawing really obnoxious and was sorta put off that these were supposed to be the leads. Interesting idea, but a massive barrier of entry. Sorta the same thing that had me worried about wanting to play Okami(thankfully, I was again proven wrong.) Then I rewatched again older and wiser a year or so ago and realized that wasn't the point at all, or at least they drop all that early tripe and sorta come around to the good in humanity pretty quick. It's just a look into two very different perspectives, and I think it worked. The wolf characters still have their flaws; their interactions, pasts, dramas and even basic archetypes are kinda one-note and while they grow subtly over the course of the show, their don't really reach any big payoff until the VERY end, and by then the same old arguments have gotten a tad tiresome. I do congratulate the writing(namely, Kiba's method and reasoning for how he defends himself) for being the first time I was ever truly disturbed or just kinda made to think by a "hero" killing the "bad guys." Taking a typically glossed-over action trope, not just for Hollywood but in anime, and putting it in a harsher, more ambiguous context was really new for me and may have made me as alienated and more judgemental of the characters as I was. An interesting thing about the ending is how many subtle punches it actually pulls, like with what happens to Cher. Realistically, she should've been splattered across the ice like strawberry jam in a chic coat, but she doesn't look too bad for a dying woman, gets payoff, even last words. I think they all do, if memory serves. As horrible and dark as what happened actually was, the ending was nowhere near as needlessly cruel as it easily, easily could have been, and I appreciate that immensely. God knows it was emotionally strangling enough. Great as the sub is, I typically stick to the dub, mainly because the often cryptic dialogue is easier to digest that way, and partly so I don't have to waste time focusing on the bottom of my paltry tv and can just sit back and take in all the ~Pretty.~ Once again, I'm in complete aggreance with Justin on the soundtrack(though I'd place the blame for music overpowering plot or imagery on the general and sound directors not knowing how or where to cut or use what, something Watanabe and Kamiyama seem far better at then Okamura or Kawamori), though if I had to point out a flaw, it might be the Wolf's Rain, to me, represents the beggining of Kanno going a tad too overboard with her controversial "plagiarism" habit. Yes yes, save me the arguments. Kanno's still my favorite composer and musician in any medium, EVER, by a looooong shot. But I'm sorry, I have ears. I can't just sit here and pretend "Heaven's Not Enough" and "Face On" aren't Craig Armstrong's "Wake Up in New York" and "Finding Beauty", or that "Beyond Me" isn't "The Death of Falstaff" from Henry IV. Even "Strangers", a beloved of mine, isn't safe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKLyxnOZprE (This song was originally written in 96.) Whether this is shocking or reprehensible to anyone is up to them. Myself, I don't particularly care. It hurts the idealized image of this endlessly creative goddess of music I created for Kanno for myself growing up, but borrowing or quoting or sampling musical ideas only concerns me when it's a symptom of lacking creativity, talent or writing chops, and I never get that vibe from Kanno. Rahxephon, my favorite anime, likely wouldn't have been made if Eva, which I sorta despise, didn't exist, Okami used Zelda as a jumping point to great effect, Star Wars was old Jidai epics and westerns, which in turn copied from each other, Utena spouted from Rose of Versailles, and so on and so forth. Kanno's always done this in some form, from waay back to Macross Plus and her game scores for KOEI to now, and she still does. Considering I can still listen to her work, love it and never have a note of what she lifts from cross my mind(and I follow the accusation threads, I've seeked out the comparisons and found a lot of awesome new artists that way), it doesn't ruffle my feathers one bit so long as she adds that unmistakable dash of Kanno magic. But objectively, Wolf's Rain marks, to my ears anyway, the point where she started getting particularly egregious, with Frontier the zenith, though I've no doubt all the Hollywood references aren't totally intentional. One final point: I completely disagree with the notion of cutting Darcia to put more focus on Jagura, Zac. Kinda always felt the opposite. I mean, they reference her from the very beginning and she causes a lot of bad shit to go down, but I dunno, she's just too distant, too removed from the story for her role to have any weight. She's sorta like a far weaker Johan; you have this vaguely mythic-feeling villian whose mentioned regularly in fearful whispers but only in passing, her shadow casts a threatening pall over the world and plot, clearly has significant influence and power, but for the most part it's all just faceless thugs in armor smacking people down. She herself doesn't really do much even indirectly and when we finally see her, her motivation is revealed too quickly and is honestly too pithy to paint her as a legitimate threat or interesting figure(and the whole 1984 thing she has going is just a tad cliche.) Whereas from the get go, you have this other villian whom you see immediately, spend far more time watching and delving into his backstory, is way creepier and oddly charismatic, does far more horrible, nasty shit directly to the protagonists, wolf and human, and lest we forget, basically caused the entire apocalypse. Jagura(accidentally) set it into motion, but Darcia shoved the jalopy down a cliff smilin like a boss, and she probably could've been cut out entirely if a few details were reworked. Wow, long post is loooong. Never woulda guessed I had this much to say about a show about dogs running places. 
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Wait, what was the point of the misery in Wolf's Rain? I missed that? (Somewhat) joking aside, I feel Saikano and Wolf's Rain are worlds apart and can't even begin to be compared because other than sharing an end-of-the-world feel, they have nothing in common. Where Wolf's Rain has Kiba searching endlessly for some Paradise, Saikano for the most part is simply Shuuji, Chise, and a few other characters being consumed by the destruction of war around them. If you're asking for a point in the analytical-artsy sense, then I would say that Saikano (the anime/manga as a whole) is a symbol for the futility of love. That it isn't some all-encompassing force for good as it is depicted so often in various media. That said, I never cared for Wolf's Rain. I saw it to its conclusion and didn't really think it had much to say. The music is gorgeous (except for Stray, I really hate that song) though. So I suppose that is one point I can agree with. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Wouldn't really be wolves if they didn't do a lot of running, now would they? Running would be what wolves do when humans are having an internal monologue. Of course, whether what they are running to has a payoff is a subjective judgement ~ if the payoff is totally airport city for you, then, yeah, it'd be a lot of running while nothing "worthwhile" occurs.
Nope, the judgement of a show is intrinsically subjective, and for those who are forewarned, simply not watching the four clip episodes and so never experiencing them is an option. So its perfectly legitimate to assess the series without the clip episodes. |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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"bonding with your elders through Stockholm syndrome"
Okay, I burst out laughing at this. |
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Arsenette
 Posts: 175 |
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Even though I've been watching anime for .. er.. probably longer than half this board's posters was even born.. I never watched 95% of this list.. I've known of just about all of them but I never watched any of them.. maybe tastes getting in the way of even trying to see them.. though I have to admit.. out of the entire list.. I.. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Fifth Element.. that is all
 I know I'll be getting the Bluray now that I have a friggin' PS3..
I laughed so hard during the Observe & Report part I had to stop the podcast to wipe tears away.. Though I did (again) cement that we reaaaaaaaaaally have different tastes in movies.. (well outside of Fifth Element) |
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