Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Sword Art Online: Alicization
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Dr. Wily
Posts: 285 |
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Man that's a lot. I feel like they were right to cut a lot of that, but they should have at least mentioned his family before now. Like when Admin mentioned his brothers I immediately thought "what brothers?" since basically all we get to see of his life before he and Kirito finish chopping down the tree is that he definitely has a crush on Alice, Selka has a crush on him, and that the village guard (Jink, I guess?) is a dick to him, but he seems like he could just be a dick to anyone.
I mean, she's still using sex/sexuality to get him to lower his guard and give her that control when you can see inside his mind, via the projections of Alice, Kirito, and Tiese that he's not fully consenting. But I mean at that point we're just splitting hairs about what constitutes rape. No matter what you wanna call it, it's messed up. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
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 I was going to ask for specifics because I couldn't think of a single show in anime that fit your description until it occurred you might be talking about Death March and Shield Hero. Two shows, any others you can think of? So as to not veer too far off topic of SAO:Alice, I believe the major factor you are ignoring is the contrast of how the shows handle the characterization of women and their relationship dynamics with the primary male protagonists. This has been brought up many times and I believe you know the following but to remind...
In the "slave harem" shows mentioned, slavery is normalized in their worlds and slave girls/women are regularly abused (by men in particular) and are in general powerless. The protagonists buy the girls/women and treat them as individuals with rights on the same levels as their own and essentially allowing them as much freedom as possible within the societal bounds, sometimes acting to get around the same. The protagonists take no advantage, do not disparage and only encourage and support. In essence, the protagonists empower them and in response the girls/women act freely with their own agency essentially as part of a team with the protagonists out of gratitude, a sense of safety and admiration. There was a big wrinkle relative to this at the beginning of Shield Hero, but the show has quickly moved away from that and is tending in the direction I outline above. In contrast, with the exception of Asuna (and then only at times), the women of SAO act with only occasional agency and after encountering Kirito are relegated to near-passive supporting roles and passive admiration (the "Ex-Would-Be-Waifu Club"). I can't remember many instances where Kirito supports or encourages the women he encounters and he seems to be always in the position of saving them as he always takes the lead in any situation and they are never a full "team member". This by itself wouldn't be so bad but the franchise needs to go one better by having the women be made more helpless to further the drama. The once nearly co-equal Asuna is caged and helpless in both the virtual and real worlds relative to the abusive fiance' power until Kirito can swoop in to save the day. We have the capable but insecure and conflicted Sinon meet her match in Kirito to the extent that she can only helplessly (out of abject admiration of his emotional strength) join Kirito in fighting Death Gun. Now in Alice, we have the double instances where Kirito disparages Lady Fanatio for being so weak when her attempts to masquerade as masculine were exposed and accusing her of trying to please some man. Alice herself is in the position of needing Kirito to save her from falling to death. Asuna came to get Kirito away from Rath like a strong woman, but now she powerlessly just hangs around waiting for the evil empire to "help" and return him to the real world. I'm not sure having the Pontifix seduce Eugeo to turn him into her puppet is "empowering" but it seems like promoting an unflattering stereotype. I say SAO is worse because I see a pattern of setting up women to have agency and strength only so they can be saved by Kirito and thereafter passively bask in his kindness whereas the "slave harems" empower women to be co-equals. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Keep watching. That's going to change. (Especially in the second half.) |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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Those were the two I was thinking of. I don't claim extensive knowledge of what individual people are watching (and I'm not generally concerned about that anyways), so I don't know if I can get anymore examples. I only remember those two because one is currently airing and you named the other one of your top 5 last year.
I don't think slavery is compatible with any real agency or female empowerment, aside from relatively within the bounds of slavery. Sure, he may give them some autonomy, but at the end of the day, they are his property. That autonomy can be withdrawn at any time, whenever the master so chooses, so they do not have real control over their lives and they are not the master's equals. Slavery does exist in their society, but I doubt society in either show would be appalled if the protagonists freed their slaves, and in Shield Hero's case, quite the opposite, given the objections raised in episode 4, regardless of the ulterior motives of those who brought it up. This isn't really the place to go further in depth on the issue, but I can't really see slaves as having any true agency or equality with their masters, aside perhaps relatively to their fellow slaves, and not free people associating with the protagonist of their own accord and who are free to leave whenever they want. Even putting aside the slavery issue, I don't think the protagonists of those two shows are co-equal with their haremettes. Filo acts as a pack animal half the time, and Naofumi still sees Rapthalia as the child he knew her when they first met. Despite their combat roles, their interpersonal relationships are parent-child at best at this point, and the protagonist of Death March has much the same relationship with a number of his harem (not inappropriately given the age of those girls). Neither Death March's or Shield Hero's girls have much much going on in their lives beyond serving or loving the protagonist (at least at this point for the latter), so I don't know that I could see either as positive examples of female characterizations, especially the former, as I can barely recall any of the female characters, and of the ones that I have any recollection, I could probably almost completely describe their character in 2 or 3 words. While SAO could certainly improve its characterization of female characters, including in terms of agency (which I have argued elsewhere on this site, and were also among the areas of improvement that Kawahara identified in the interviews I mentioned), I think you still overstate the case in some regards. While Kirito is the strongest among his peers, the female characters are not absent from direct combat roles, even against the big bad. They are members of the team all the same, despite Kirito being stronger. Nor are they totally passive in their stories, again joining in on the combat, and in Sinon's case, she actually was the one to fend off Death Gun's IRL attack (as Kirito had slipped up when he attempted the same). Your analysis completely glosses over the Mother's Rosario arc, where Asuna was the protagonist and Kirito only played a supporting role. And going by Key's word, there seem to be more such counter examples coming. As to Fanatio, you are again twisting what was said and done to say things that were not meant by the author. He was criticizing her for being embarrassed about her gender, not that she was acting in a masculine way when she was not a man (nor identified as such). She had good reason to do so, but it must have seemed a little silly to Kirito when his girlfriend was also the second ranked member of her guild by virtue of her skill and even his mentor in this world was an accomplished female swordsperson. Not the best way to go about addressing her hangups with her gender, but it was in no way meant to suggest that she was less of a person due to her gender, nor to suggest that she was not indeed a very powerful foe. |
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HandofBobb
Posts: 81 |
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I keep seeing people complaining about the things Kirito said to Fanatio, but one should really take into account, those things were said to an opponent, in the middle of a fight- some or all of it could have just been psychological warfare.
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zenbud
Posts: 96 |
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"Then again, we are talking about a Reki Kawahara story here, so I doubt the nudity was intended to be that deep. "
Kawahara said almost exactly what you said thought "Kawahara says that Quinella isn't a nudist, just that she knows that Underworld is a fake made by people from the outside world, so she doesn't care about her avatar being naked. Instead, she believes that it's ridiculous to be embarrassed by such a thing." https://twitter.com/kunori/status/1104418178770264064 |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11406 |
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I guess I just don't have the heart of a swordsman, since I would've staked the little pigball to the floor while he was groveling. They almost seem to be standing around waiting for him to power up out of sheer curiosity to see what he can do...
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Gohanangered
Posts: 39 |
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Sorry but the only female that kirito is really interested in is Asuna.
 Not sure why people think alice has a chance with him.
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2529 |
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BTW I do like SAO in general but Alice has given me some "WTF" chuckles. Like Gina Szanboti remarked, it seems like Our Heros/Heroines at times go too conveniently off-task when bad guys are around. This Ep reminds me of the old (bad?) Kung Fu movies where the Hero allows himself to get completely surrounded by bad guys and they all just stand around in a circle waiting their turn to get disposed of one by one. And then they throw in Charlotte from almost nowhere because we need pathos apparently. Annoying way to treat a character
@Gohanangered Not sure who is saying that but it has been seeming to me that Alice was getting a little too flustered at Kirito's "nice guy" behavior so if anything I'd say fans are just taking cues from her. Again to my earlier observation about nascent sexism, SAO wants every female to fall for Kirito whether it makes any sense or not. Gurl, Eugeo's your guy, Kirito's married... |
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MoonPhase1
Posts: 492 |
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I’m still trying to figure out what went wrong on Toonami’s broadcast of SAO this past weekend. It was on Toonami’s 22nd birthday.
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delariean
Posts: 55 |
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Per Jason Demarco: Link: https://twitter.com/Clarknova1/status/1107738478736039938 #Toonami fans, sorry about the Sword Art Online glitch this past Saturday night. We'll be replaying (and hopefully finishing) eps 6 this coming Saturday at 12:30a. We'll then be running eps 7 and 8 back-to-back on Saturday, March 30th from 12:30a-1:30a. Sorry again! This is also a perfect time to run two episodes the following week as Megalobox is finishing its run this Saturday. They also have a new show coming but are not allowed to say until given the ok.... |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4385 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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i dont know why their keeping it hush hush. we all know that its going to be the remainding seasons of attack of titan & one puch man! its not that big of a deal! also their is the notion of kirito's brain damage at the hand of death gun might lead to memory loss once he comes back, so the odds of him coming back to asuna is small at the least! hell considering that the author is allowing parts of ordiance scale in the anime series more or less hinting that he will eventually make that movie canon! |
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delariean
Posts: 55 |
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Legally, I think that they could be in a lot of trouble announcing something they do not have the clearance yet to do. It to Ben on the safe side IMO. |
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Squidslinger
Posts: 76 |
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Yeah SAO went from a solid story to a harem anime so quick. Just, if you really look back at it, you can almost see the point where some editor told the creator,"hey you know what would make this better?!" Then it became a textbook harem. The SAO games are even worse harems. Trouble is they never introduce characters Kirito's age that could be viable alternatives. If you look at most of the male cast, they are either older or psychos. This is where these kinds of series could learn from others like Grimgar where there are viable alternatives. |
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Kuroi Ren
Posts: 143 |
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I am just saying. Cardinal literally died for nothing. Also, wasn't she the one who wanted to end the world, and now she can't kill 300 people. Seriously?
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