Forum - View topicMobile Suit Gundam 00 - Sci-Fi broadcast (w/index).
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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Agreed, I'd be totally disappointed if Gundam Unicorn doesn't receive a dub just because of this world-wide release plan.
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BellosTheMighty
 Posts: 767 |
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Respectfully disagree. Not on the dub, mind you- but the series was being held back by the logjam of plotlines near the end. Graham failed to get satisfying closure, Andrei tried and failed to avoid being useless, several characters more or less vanished from the narrative (Feldt, Marina, Regene), several others were killed off unceremoniously, and Anew basically came out of nowhere. That last one is especially vexing now that I look at it because spoiler[if you examine the storyline closely, pretty much everything Anew does- being obviously an Innovator, romancing Lockon, betraying Celestial Being, dying with some ambiguity as to where her heart truly was in the end- all of that could have been shifted onto Feldt. And indeed, Feldt was set up to do at least some of that- as early as Season 1, the narrative made a big deal of her being odd. And the scene where she bitch-slaps Lyle plays something like the start of a tsundere romance. Anew could have been excised from the series and made it much more efficient, but for some reason they decided not too.] I admit I may be biased. By the time we got halfway through Season 2, I had pretty much stopped caring about any of the characters except Saji and Louise. Apparently I'm not alone in that, since the writers shifted them to be more important than any other characters save Setsuna. But regardless, this means that there are 2 characters out of a cast of dozens whose fates I'm actually following. I enjoyed the finale, but it wasn't especially memorable. Also, two annoying things: first, spoiler[pretty much nothing was revealed about Aeolia's plan except that he was preparing humanity for a future extrasolar contact which may or may not ever come.]. Second, the last scene is spoiler[Setsuna & co. taking off in the Ptolemias too carry on their armed interventions, just like in the beginning of the series.] While this is fine in a "life goes on" sort of way, doesn't it pretty much admit that Celestial Being failed? That after all their efforts to change the world, in the end the world is just the same as when they started? |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I don't think Celestial Being failed, necessarily.
In the first season, they did manage to unite humanity- against them. But unfortunately it created the A-Laws who were brutal and being manipulated by Ribbons, who wanted to control humans. Essentially that was their mistake, not realizing that what they did would have such an extreme backlash, which is why they didn't sit still and let things go on as they were. Now, I'm guessing they're just going to be ironing out some of the wrinkles of removing Ribbons from power. We'll have to wait for the movie. And as for pairing Lyle with Feldt, people would have bitched about Lyle being too much like his brother if they did that. They already complained, even though the writer obviously went out of his way to make them different. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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This again? The elephant in the room (i.e. the issue you refuse to address) is that there was no reason for Lyle to ever exist in the first place. How the writers handled his character compared to Neil is besides the point; why did they even include him at all? He cheapens Neil's death and his joining Celestial Being creates plot holes (such as how he was so good, and why he would even be recruited). Ultimately, he's there to give the Seiyuu |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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First, Lyle was already in the first season, set up for the next one. If Neil's death was cheapened for you, it was in the first season. Otherwise, I like how there were twin brothers who were different but arrived at similar conclusions about life.
This was far from Space Battleship Yamato's replacement of Saburo Kato with his brother who looked, talked, and acted just like him, and the only reason for them doing it was the fans missing the character (which seems strange, since Kato barely said a damn thing while he was alive, and neither did his brother). You're still questioning why he was so good? The guy worked in Katharon! |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Different? How are identical twins who talk exactly the same, hold down the same job and have the same personality in any way different?
For one, it was only vaguely hinted that Lyle had had MS experience with Katharon. Just because he worked for them does not mean he was automatically a pilot. Secondly, Katharon was a two-bit operation which lacked even the most simplest GN-particle-using MS, let alone machines as complicated as a Gundam. It's sort of like a pilot of a Sopwith Camel learning how to competently operate a F-22A in a matter of weeks (if not days). The fundamentals are similar to a degree, but the way the two machines handle - not to mention the vast gulf in their performance and complexity levels - would cause even the best pilots to take their time adjusting to the new machine. Of course, that's assuming that Lyle was a pilot in the first place. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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They didn't have the same personality. Lyle was more deceptive and hands-off until Anew, and dismissed his brother's motivations as pointless. He was doing it for Katharon, mostly, until towards the end.
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daedelus
 Posts: 743 Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05) |
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@BellosTheMighty:
Yeah, I also feel that Feldt was underused. They sort of hinted at her getting more story, but it's like they just changed their minds, or ran out of time. As far as Lyle's piloting skills, I think Haro probably gave him a hand. All he had to do mostly was point and shoot. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8467 Location: Penguinopolis |
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No, it was pretty clear that Lyle was only pretending to be bad at first, but was sandbagging on purpose.
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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Yeah. It took all of the events of the season to change him for him before he finally makes the jump to leave Katharon and personally take up the cause of living as a true Lockon Stratos as he finally says at his family and Anew's grave, and as for the piloting skills, Sumeragi commented on his piloting skills in the simulator and suspected he had been trained as a pilot prior to his recruitment. The soldiers both veterans and younger aces including the Colonel moved up to the GN-X's with the psuedo-GN drives from the same suits that Lyle would have been piloting in Katharon, since Katharon used old power bloc suits, and while GN-X's still aren't Gundams it's still a starting point for him to get better as a Gundam pilot. Ah yes, daedelus almost forgot, plus the Haro assistance as well in addition to his training.
Personally, like most I imagine given his extremely prominent role in the first season, I wanted more Graham development during the course of the season but when we got to the finale I thought it was brilliant not repeating the mistake of the first season and trying to squeeze in a conclusion for Graham in addition to the main focus of main storyline of the series and Ribbons and his usurpation and manipulation of Aeolia's plans, leave that for the movie when there's plenty of time now that Setsuna's convinced him of something better to fight for, the future, seemingly as his old self again which will also hopefully make for a more fulfilling rest of the arc for his character. If they don't complete his character development in the movie then I'll agree. Yeah I agree with the other guys, Felt even admitted that she shouldn't push those feelings for Neil onto Lyle and that she didn't have any feelings for Lyle it was just at first since he looked like him and Lyle never had a thing for Felt. Sure the slap is pretty common in tsundere romances but Felt's not much of a tsundere and even she recognized quickly what she was doing and that these are two different people. While the Anew arc was relatively successful at it's purpose and goals and looking at the response in various discussions I think the relationship displayed had an effective emotional reaction during the spoiler[tragic end with Ribbons taking her over and Setsuna having to shoot and then Setsuna helping them communicate one last time also foreshadowing what could have possibly happened if Ribbons had been able to remain in control of Louise], I suppose I agree in that Anew was one of the few nitpicks I have with season 2, because she was too perfect in all the various things they said she was skilled in, for obvious reasons being an Innovator but still, but mainly because she was there for one reason and basically one role in the plot. Perhaps if she had been part of the crew from the very beginning before we knew about the Innovators she would have felt more integrated. When did Regene vanish? Regene appeared almost all the time until the end for obvious reasons and was always impacting events. And well I can't think of much more they could have done with Andre. Though Felt was a support character I too loved her and thought she was underused and wish she had more development like they initially hinted we might see especially with her parents being former Gundam Meisters but everything's not going to fit. Marina though I think was kind of destined to take a back seat when her country was lost since even being the given choice several times to play a role she had no desire to stand up and "fight" and the show made it clear that by their choices Setsuna, quite fitting for his entire character and character arc, was destined for a different path from her as she commented in the epilogue, I think they did a good job with balancing her character's role and not letting it grow too far which I was afraid of a few times. I don't know I felt attached to both the main characters and the supporting ones and for a non-pilot Sumeragi got a lot of attention which was great. Saji and Louise were the characters they were pushing the audience to care about though so it's not surprising their outcome took center stage for a while at the climax and that they were most successful with most of the audience with them. As penguintruth said, Celestial Being didn't fail, they've actually completed this stage of their mission twice though the first time it was incomplete due to the outcome as he explained as well. There's a united Earth now which was one of Celestial Being's goals and this time governed by the people, however conflict still exists especially now that the minor powers throughout the world are being given their freedom back to join the federation voluntarily or negotiate their own politics again with their neighbors hence their mission isn't entirely complete which is pretty fitting in a real world sense that they may still have work to do despite the progress. However the major powers are now united unlike at the beginning where it wasn't just minor skirmishes breaking out, the various major powers were carefully playing a war "game" against each other which is not the case with the Federation in place that includes all of those major powers. Still wordier than intended lol. |
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funny99man
Posts: 5 Location: Colorado Springs |
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Is it me or does Gundam 00 come from the worst parts of Gundam Zeta now wait hear me out.
Look at a few deaths in Gundam 00 or the lack of them. spoiler[ At the end of the first season at least Allelujah Haptism should have died just to be alive in the second season and I like Allelujah it's just his death worked compared to Zeta Gundam's four in which she just appears to die again or even Katz Kobayashi who seemed to die one episode to only live and die the soon after because that was worth it] Next extremely crazy organizations trying to change the world Gundam 00- Celestial Being and world peace through killing soldiers and not the underlying causes. Zeta Gundam- AEGU's earths well of gravity pulling down human souls cause that comes from sane people. How about main characters getting really weird super powered Gundams I also have to believe one of the writers for Gundam 00 really liked the fight with spoiler[Kamille Bidan and Haman Khan] then decided to make half of second season's fight. I think we understand each other. spoiler[ at least Haman Khan had the right reaction to it] Oh yeah the endings also sucked spoiler[ In Gundam 00 we didn't get to see much of the main characters while secondary's secondary characters get whole scenes Patrick Colasour any one.] Then you have the usless characters like Patrick Colasour and Feldt Grace in Gundam 00 and Katz Kobayashi in Zeta Gundam I was just getting to like the main cast and they throw a wrench in it with Katz Finally there is the rediculas actions every one takes that no normal human would think of. Explain Graham Aker in the second season and I dare some one to watch the first two episodes of Zeta Gundam and think Kamille is sane. I'm still not sure I like Kamille. Now I don't actually hate either of these series and I love The original Gundam series it's one of the best animes out there, Gundam 0083 right up there and even Gundam 08th MS Team is great. I personal find Gundam 00 entertaining if not down right funny. While I have major problems with Zeta it's better then Gundam Wing...and neo genesis evangelion for how ever much that counts. I was able to rewatch Zeta and found it better then the first time. In fact I just finished Zeta Gundam after the last episode of Gundam 00 played and that is when I realized they where a lot alike which inspires these post. Just had to get it out there surprising even me since this is my first post |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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To me Gundam 00 has without a doubt the most obvious Jump the Shark moment in anime history.
Setsuna spoiler[evolves into Jesus because of good radiation] After that the writing just became ridiculous with Ribbons being a brain dead moron, using the Gaga in a ridiculous fashion. Also Setsuna without a doubt replaces Kira Yamato as the most obvious Marty Stu in the history of Gundam, I mean sure Kira was untouchable as a mecha pilot, but not only is Setsuna untouchable but people won't shut up about how awesome he is. Graham get's character derailed, a character dies by commiting Seppeku (how lazy of a writer is Kuroda). Allelujah is such a loser that people openly root for Hallelujah to take over permanatly. Celestial Being is completely unlikable because they don't seem to grow as people. Oh No! Changing the world by listening to a guy from 200 years ago caused someone to secretly run the world! Quick let's still listen to the same orders and keep trying by messing up the world even more! |
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funny99man
Posts: 5 Location: Colorado Springs |
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Hallelujah to that my brother |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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No, that would go to Gundam SEED Destiny for spoiler[the bringing back of Mwu.] But yeah, I actually agree with you on a lot of your points. Though, I believe Kira Yamato's SEED Destiny incarnation is much worse than Setsuna. At least Setsuna had to fight hard to win his battles, and he didn't rub me the wrong way as Kira's holier-than-thou attitude. Looking back, I think Setsuna was easily the best character in Gundam 00, though unfortunately that's really not saying much. By the half-way point in the second season I had stopped caring for every cast member bar him and Hallulujah, and the latter is only there because he got so little screentime he didn't have a chance to stuff things up. Really, I cannot like characters for whom I have absolutely no respect for. But that said, Setsuna evolving because of the GN particles was ridiculous. The only reason I went with it even slightly was that subjectively-speaking it wasn't the worst aspect of the show, not by a longshot. Considering who the director was - I consider the first Fullmetal Alchemist series to be among the finest shows in Anime, even if I'm not a diehard fan of it - I was severely let down. I really cannot stress that enough. After SEED Destiny I lowered my expectations for future Mecha (especially Gundam) drastically. And Gundam 00 still failed, at least with me. I guess it is proof that Sunrise should never ever split seasons like that, as both 00 and Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 suffered from markedly inferior second seasons. Anyway, good thing for Macross Frontier. I rewatched episodes twelve to fourteen just now and I must say it is an incredible show. You dub fans probably will never see it unfortunately, but boy has it restored my faith in Real Robot Anime.* The difference between it and even the best episodes from 00 is vast. * Oh wait, did I just imply that Gundam 00 was a Real Robot show? Silly me. |
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Will watch later today. However, why does SyFy put it on so late? As I finish this, I will determine what Gundam series to do next. Probably the original.
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