Forum - View topicView on Moe.
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I don’t like it, I have never seen a series with the primary focus on moe element that evolves into something interesting. Higurashi has moe-looking girls, but it appeals to me because of a tense air of mystery.
Yes, all people love big robots. 
There is a simple answer, there aren’t many shows with cool guys, big robots etc. Look at this. How many series with cool guys and big robots do you see? Besides, none of these elements make a good story. Last edited by Aylinn on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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lesterf1020
 Subscriber Posts: 292 Location: Trinidad and Tobago |
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You guys are all lucky that I am not a moderator. I would lock all of these threads on sight. All of these Dub vs Sub, Moe, fanservice type threads I would lock the lot. While they all start off looking like an intelligent discussion they always boil down to "I don't like this part of the anime industry therefore it is bad and killing the industry and everyone who likes it is wrong and should be shot." Apparently it is not possible to have diversity and it is not OK for there to be something for everyone. There must only be what I like and no one must like anything I hate. Sheesh!
I hate Soap Operas and Romantic Comedies but the women in my life love the stuff. It pleases me greatly to know that there is something out there that they can enjoy and be passionate about even if I think it sucks. Likewise, I enjoy reading fans enjoyment of the Gundam franchise and things like Ikkitousen and Kanon. I don't like any of that stuff and if that was all anime had to offer I wouldn't be an anime fan. However, I am willing to give some of the more interesting stuff I don't like a try and I am glad that anime has something for everyone and that people can enjoy and be passionate about it. For the record I hope there are more dubs, more sub only releases, more moe shows, more shows with no moe, more mecha, more drama, more romance, more fanservice and more of everything so everyone can find something they love and something they hate and something they are willing to tryout. That way we don't force people out of anime or force them to pretend to like what we like. Is there really only ONE way to tell a story. Must the story only have certain pre-approved elements and leave the others out? I believe the story elements are no where near as important as the way they are handled. To paraphrase Ebert "what matters is not what a story is about but how it is about what it is about." So there! How d'ya like them apples? |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3901 Location: New York state. |
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If used carefully, moe can make for some effective elements to anime storylines and settings. Case in point, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. The moe character designs serve to portray the seemingly innocent appearance of the girls until the horror, mystery and suspense of the series kick in with one or more of the girls going or seeming murderously insane in each of the show's arcs.
On the other hand, oversaturation of moe in a title can ruin a title's quality if you are being forced to feel sympathy for a helpless, shy, timid and submissive girl being pushed into tragic and dramatic storylines just for the convenience of the plot where there are enough blunders in the consistency of the storytelling. Anyone remember Kanon's Shiori spoiler[supposedly dying from a disease yet all she wears outside whenever she appears is a shawl and a dress with a short skirt which has no effect on her "illness" in the cold winter weather]? Or how about Air where spoiler[Minagi and Kano are never seen or heard from again once their story arcs are resolved.] Or Clannad spoiler[which doesn't bother giving a reason for why everyone's memories of Fuko are vanishing and her random appearances after her story arc is resolved.] Putting moe oogling over the quality of plot does tend to ruin an anime title's quality in my eyes. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15511 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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So Clannad's spoiler[forgeting of Fuuko was a moe tecnique.] What I enjoy is the series that also pick on the moe, for example Kannon's Yuuichi picks on all the girls: Child like girl who repeats word get the word used against her mockingly and teased of her body. Prankster who tries to prove her worth has her pranks reversed and tricked into doing things
 . And girl who dosn't speak much has him fill in the dots to others to think they were talking about something else.
I have been watching Potemayo lately and though it is moe, it moe blob often ends up being physicly hurt, physicaly hurting another or generally making fun of what one expects from a moe blob (with hillarious narrative of Ah My Godesses' Belldandy). One of my favirouts recently was Seitokai no Ichizon which had one character swith between "serious business" president and "moe blob" pet, often to purposly grotesque proportions (her luggage). Or one character useing their moe to get the guy to, well write something very difficult for him. The thing is the series was aware of it and wasn't meant to attract people as much as feel for the character position. |
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Treiz
 Posts: 121 |
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I consider Moe to be a tool, one that is most often abused in the place of good writing, the same way that CG has been abused in modern film making.
I don't mind it when it is used properly or in small doses, but Moe for Moe's sake is as off-putting as any other misused tool of the trade. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I would agree with this, it's clearly the clean and innocent surface of the characters in Higurashi that makes their eventual declines into murderous insanity so shocking. That it is done deliberately for shock value doesn't detract from its effectiveness. It's in no way different from the use of an absurdly doll-like little girl as the focus of the horror in Spielberg's Poltergeist. This connection is a point that is far from lost on the general fan base of both Higurashi and moe shows in general. Case in point, this crossover video. - abunai |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Although I discovered my disposition to be affected by animated content before I chanced upon Kanon, said series managed to subject me to a prolonged period of emotional cleansing, of the sort I would not have expected to be prone to before becoming an anime fan.
I acknowledge the sentiments made by others against titles of a class to which such a series (and its sisters) belong. As I hold response-dependant and subject-oriented beliefs concerning aesthetics and the ontology thereof however, I do not consider such criticisms to be indicative of any flaw, or general 'incorrectness', inherent in my faculties to react to entertainment media. The means by which I constitute my conception of goodness inheres in my personal reactions, as opposed to any norm or trend amongst the declarations of others. In light of this, one must acknowledge the disadvantage placed upon those disposed to dislike moe, as has been brought about by the saturation of such titles within the market. Certainly, the satisfaction of a moe fan can still be met with a more restricted number of moe titles being released every year, and to this end I would accept without dissatisfaction a reduction in its prolificness for the benefit of the anime fanbase in general. Nonetheless, numerous fans vocally opposed to moe have still been able to identify recent anime fitting their standards, even in spite of the influx of material to which they are opposed. |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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That may be true, but for me the sexualization is secondary (that's called pedophilia and I ain't touchin' that with a ten foot pole). I really can't stand moe in most cases because it isn't cute at all, it's grating. Moe characters rarely develop (the only example I can think of is Chihiro from ef), continue to be useless throughout a series, and, quite frankly, are totally unrealistic as human beings. Not to mention degrading to females--I'm glad there's been an upswing in strong female protagonists in recent years, but it's still a lopsided ratio and the moe stereotype is the worst of them all, even more offensive to me than purely objectified fanservice characters. You can do sweet, kind, gentle, and strong female leads without resorting to moe; Tohru from Fruits Basket is a perfect example. And some occasional vulnerability is a part of human (hehe) nature, like Horo in Spice and Wolf. But if you're going to give me a weepy, utterly useless character whose only means of survival is cuteness, you better give her some kick-ass development or I'm not buying. |
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zgripţuroicǎ
 Posts: 140 Location: Newburgh, NY |
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rainbowcourage, that's the type of moe that bugs me. I feel like too often it's used as a character's defining trait, ad they simply become moe. They're boring, one note characters, who don't seem to do anything except try to look cute and be weak.
It's like anything else. Tsundere is good when it's used effectively, and doesn't become the character's definition in the series. If a tsundere character's personality fails to extend past being a tsundere character, it's probably going to be a boring, bland character. Same thing with moe. When the device is used to accent something about the character or story, it can contribute positively. It obviously worked for some shows, which is why so many are now abusing it and using it as a crutch to carry along a series that's deficient in other areas. Also, I enjoy the moe look more than I do the traits. Sometimes you can see a cute little girl and saw, "Awww." But when if I saw someone who looked moe (and I talking about someone at least 15-18, who happened to be smaller), who's totally incompetent in every task they do, I wouldn't find it cute. Maybe the first time or two, but after that, it's just annoying. I can't stand moe characters who are simply going around saying, "Oh no, I can't do anything! Eek, a spider! 16-year-old boy, I'm so weak, please protect me!" for the entire series. If they start out that way, and change over the course of the show to actually be able to do something, I can at least say they showed some character growth. But static moe characters can be dreadfully boring. |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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That they are tasty by virtue of their verbose fructose. I'm completely on the same page with you inasmuch as the Ebert and Lovecraftian descent into madness that comes from the logical anti-matter that is internet opinion. But I'm not about to endorse the indulging of every last fanboy wish list. Isn't that a big part of what got the industry where it is, on a slow elevator ride that's somewhere between the 4th and 5th circle of Hell? |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Moe is fine, Curly is the annoying one.
Seriously, though I find moe tolerable as long as it's in moderation. If the only reason to tune in is cute stuff, pastel colors, and stupid animal things, I'm going to dump it. Too much sugar isn't good for you. I need some cerebral stimulation, or some good old death and destruction at the very least. |
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dgreater1
 Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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My view on moe is very simple. I mean, I view it as an adjective that describes girls, especially used in anime. Now the question, why would I hate something that gives them characters? What I mostly see people complaining are about their annoying personality that they thought is used to please the fans, also those Moe shows (shows with adorable female or female robot or whatever) that concentrates on fan-service and non-sense, etc. I could list a lot of Moe characters here, the next question is, how many can you slap the label "Hate" on?
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I don't mind moe girls as long as they are either not portrayed in a sexual manner or clearly overage. These little runts with massive boobs and a permanent facepopping blush are getting on my nerves. (and creeping me out) Also just like other archetypes like Tsundere the character needs to be more than just a long string of cheap shots based on their archetype. If they can manage that then hooray. But it so often does not.
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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I would like to notice that one of these anime, Higurashi, doesn't have typical moe girls. The girls from Higurashi lack traits that are considered to be characteristics to moe girls and by many fans such features are regarded as annoying:
Not only doesn't it suit them because of violence to which they resort occasionally, but also even if they are not violent, they are not a good example of clumsy, weepy and utterly useless girls. Their fight with fate demands that they be more than this. They will not defy fate, if they are a bunch of cute girls,
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4nBlue
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Moe is a feeling, not some kind list of character attributes. Being clumsy/helpless might make the character seem more moe to those who find clumsy girls to be moe, but being clumsy isn't a requirement for being moe. The most moe I have experienced was when I played Tsuyokiss and none of the heroines are clumsy ((big spoiler!)spoiler[Yoppii] only acts like she is), weepy or useless. And still my moe goddess Nagomin managed to make me fall from from my chair with the power of moe. Also the way that the cast of Higurashi doesn't give up could be considered to be quite moe. I didn't find it to be moe when watching Higurashi, but I have found that kind unwavering will to be moe in other works (Kazuko from Majikoi being the best example I can think of at the moment). I don't expect everyone to love moe and I am quite fed up with the cheap moe milking tricks ("I'm really a ghost/terminally sick/robot/ terminally ill ghost of a robot, feel moe as you watch me disappear/die/run out batteries, UGUU~"), but I hate it when someone tries to turn moe in to a category where they can dump everything they hate. |
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