Forum - View topicItazura na Kiss.
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kizzmequik_74
 Posts: 302 Location: QC, Philippines |
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AAAH. That. Thanks for clearing it up. I know exactly what you mean: a lot of shoujo manga/anime has the bad habit of mixing up "love" with "infatuation"... or a mere crush... Which actually could make the entire basis of the story very shallow. Odds are, this show will try to solve this by giving a chance for Kotoko to properly fall in love with Naoki, episode by episode. Maybe. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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A lot of teenagers (the real live ones) mix up having a crush with being in love though. Not to mention adults. Listening to my 15-year-old niece prattle on about "loving" this guy (and the next day hating him of course) makes Kotoko's flutters being described as love seem realistic to me. Sure, it's not love, not yet, but not everyone has a good grasp on what love is--and most people couldn't agree on a definition anyway. I've seen people on here suggest that the only difference between love and infatuation is the amount of time it lasts, which is not something I agree with at all. Everyone views it differently, and when your young, those first pinings of attraction can really send you out there, turning a puppy love crush into a destined true love story in your mind. This isn't just a shoujo manga thing either. Same could be said for a lot of the male-targeted romances which also do the crush/infatuation equals love thing. That's one thing I can't get into with anime and manga. The lead couples almost always have a relationship that to me is very far from love, but is generally accepted as a great romance. Side character love stories generally feel much more realistic and better played out to me, but I'm a complete romantic. Also, getting back to a more direct reference to Itazura na Kiss, I didn't think she said much about being in love in the second episode. She still had a dreamy moment or two, but really, it wasn't like she was going around lamenting over her love--she was spoiler[blackmailing him and rather enjoying it] after all. First episode sure, she was lovey-dovey, but that's just teenage flightiness. I suppose we could examine semantics, like looking at "suki" vs "ai shiteru" and their English translations (vs what would be a closer counterpart), but in the end, she's got a crush, she might think it's more, but to me the anime doesn't seem to be saying "this is love" in flashing letters but rather "she really likes him even though he's a jerk, oooo!" |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I would have agreed with you, until spoiler[the last scene where Irie was mean to her again and she decided she didn't care because she "really loves him after all".] I completely agree that teenagers would think that something is love when it isn't. But shoujo manga tends to make them be right and there is the problem. |
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Mylene
Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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But that's not just a problem with shoujo manga, but rather manga and anime as a whole. Infatuation/crushes always equal love, and almost always come out as being true love even when it's pretty blatantly not. Also for that last scene, I rewatched it, and I don't know, to me she's expressing that even while spoiler[he's mean to her, and she "hates" him, she still can't just turn off liking on a dime. While the translator put it as "love," which is a fairly acceptable translation, we've got to remember that the word "suki" is tossed around in all sorts of situations, and can also be translated as just "liking" someone (or something.)] I don't see where the show is portraying it as real love, but it certainly is showing a girl who has a crush on someone and gets her feelings hurt by him time and again. While I don't like that she still crushes on him when he's so cruel (feminist roar!), that is still very common in real life with both teens and adults. Not that it's healthy (at least not in my opinion), but it's not just a problem of shoujo manga either. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I guess I don't read enough of non-shoujo to really find it a problem there, especially because in shoujo relationships are usually front and centre.
I guess it just makes the shows that don't do that stand out all the more. |
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chichiriNoDa
 Posts: 532 |
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Yey episode 2 was great, I'm really liking this series. It felt like I'm watching an old anime series but then again it's probably because it was adapted from an old manga. The animation have foggy effect it feels though it was just a dream but I like it anyway. Lots of themes we're used like spoiler[tutoring, blackmailing (for fun), hiding their situations, the entertaining and supportive mother, developing love, teasing of the other student, etc..... ]
Hahahaha I like the train scenes I find it funny and also Kotoko's comrades were energetic and hilarious. Hope it gets better and better...... |
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kizzmequik_74
Posts: 302 Location: QC, Philippines |
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Hmm. To a point, it's actually a problem with not just manga and anime, but it's a problem of fiction at large. It's one of those stock plot devices that everyone's used at one point or another. That doesn't make it any less irritating, though. |
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Jedi General
 Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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I agree completely. The second episode was even better than the first I thought and I can only hope that the series continues to get better and better (despite feeling very cliched for obvious reasons). |
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Mylene
Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Unfortunately, episode 3 definitely seemed to be a step in the wrong direction here. While I don't mind the idea of there being nothing new (it certainly didn't hurt episode 1 or 2), there not only wasn't anything new here, there wasn't anything particularly fun to watch either. At least not for me. The sports fest felt just a little too silly and sloppily done, and Kotoko spoiler[going into a daze just because Irie looked in her direction] was just too much. It was overdone and falls into stereotypes that I really dislike. Hopefully episode 4 can recapture some of the comedic elements that kept the first two episodes from being too average. |
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kyokun703
 Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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Episode 3 was a complete letdown. I'm extremely disappointed with spoiler[Kotoko's reaction during the race], and it actually made my skin crawl. Naoki is spoiler[exactly the same, bullying her and embarrassing her, and while I'm glad she slapped him, she immediately went back to gushy stupidness when he said he could possibly come to love her.]
I think I'm done with this series unless something amazing happens later. Too bad. Her friends and Naoki's family are pretty fun. |
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cool3865
 Posts: 770 Location: Austin, TX |
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so i've only gotten up to episode 2 and i like it, its like watching an old late-80's early 90's OVA anime.
so far it sounds like episode 3 isnt that great |
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cool3865
Posts: 770 Location: Austin, TX |
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episode 3 wasnt that bad like alot of people have been saying. the reason for alot of the cliches is that this is from a Shoujo manga that was made along time ago. there are going to be things that if people didn't see or read shoujo anime/manga back in the 80's and 90's are wondering why certain things are being show or happening.
that being said, i cant wait for episode 4 |
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Mylene
Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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This is a point that has been discussed before (and pushed by me), but that doesn't excuse it from making Kotoko into a vapid ditz during the really as well as lacking the magic the first two episodes had. |
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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I think, for me, the worst part of the episode was Irie showing himself to be a great runner, the connotation of that is that he is also good at all sports (and an absolute twat for thinking he is somehow above competing properly by losing his 1st race on purpose). Him ALSO being great at sports, as well as studying and good looking and from a nice family etc etc paints him out as some kind of 'epitomine' and it, in a single sequence destroyed a fair bit of depth from his character. he is now yet another ultimate pretty boy whereas before he had some flaw in his character. Now I know people can have many diverse interests and be good at lots of different things, university students for example are, more or less, intelligent and many of them also compete in high level (or low level or amateur) sport and take part in theatre, music, etc etc. Thus people CAN be good at all sorts of things...but those people are also flawed in reality as are all people. Irie is portrayed, so far, as having no real flaws. Yes he is a jerk but Kotoko makes that less of a flaw by being so damned accepting of him. Basically I dislike Irie a great deal and I find it very tough to 'get into' a 'love' story when I dislike one of the people involved as much as I do Irie...I only hope he develops some actual character and personality beyond 'good at everything and a twat about it'...kind of hard to like such a guy. |
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kyokun703
Posts: 2505 Location: Orgrimmar |
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I just cannot stand spineless ditzy heroines who act completely stupid. Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket was okay, because she sincerely had a good heart, and she wasn't stupid. She was just accepting. Kotoko's stupidity came out spoiler[with that whole relay thing]. That was just too much for me and turned me off of her character completely.
I thought she might be redeemed spoiler[during the letter sequence, but five seconds later, she was all, "Oh, he might really love me!" and I threw my hands up in disgust.] Irie's flaw is his personality, and that's a pretty big flaw to overcome. A guy can be perfect in every other way, but if his personality is utter crap, then what's the point? |
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