Forum - View topicANN and the industry's stance on fansubs (ANN official on P5
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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Statements and videos such as those belong on forums and on the Internet. Not on a legal, domestic R1 product.
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Also, part of what daxomni just mentioned also bothers me regarding the Haruhi comments (sorry in advance daxomni, if you didn't want me to use your statements in the way I am about to). The Haruhi ASOS video comments make it sound like they support fansubbers who watch 100 fansubs, but buy only 1 Haruhi DVD, and pirate the other 99 shows. Which I suspect is what a lot of fansub-watchers would do (not the ones here, but in general). Which is why I keep mentioning the $9 Haruhi. Haruhi, after all, is only $9 new because it didn't sell well. So anyone can afford to buy a single $9 Haruhi video and download 100 fansubs of other shows. Now are they suddenly legit, helpful members of the anime community? Probably not.
About renting, we discussed it a lot in other semi-recent threads. In theory renting is supposed to send money back to the anime studios via some sort of special business deals, but whether or not any given rental site does things the proper legal way, who knows. Netflix probably. Rentanime.com, I dunno (I'm guessing they do though). You could always ask them. If they really are legit (for renting), they shouldn't mind answering such questions. |
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Terrestrial_Cel
 Posts: 99 Location: SF Bay Area |
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I appreciate that I can go to a video store now and actually see an anime selection; titles i'd never think I'd see in North American shelves to beat. And more and more titles are liscensed every year. Knowing that, I understand the opinion that fansubs are become less and ness necessary.
At the same time, fansubs wont ever go away; and shouldn't. I wouldn't want to rely soley on coporate-minded suits deciding what I can and cannot see legally in English - that statement might be extreme, but I think the idea is clear. We have to rely on ourselves as fans to promote anime just as much as the guys in marketing. Fansubbers have a history of catching titles that big companies let fall through the cracks. If I like something, I buy it. But, I can't do so if it's not available to me for purchase  (now, one could argue that people should just buy R2 DVDs if R1 isn't available, but that gets into a whole issue about practicallity... But it is always better to have the REAL thing!).
Also, I think a little bit of the fansub "problem" (if you chose to look at it that way) might have to do with a miss-distribution of information. It made sense to rent and buy videos in 1989. Now, with people's complicated lifestyles, broadband, and get-it-now mentality; people want something instantly. Buying anime downloads legally, or paying a subscription for streaming anime content would not only combat fansubs, but reach a broader community of customers. So far, I've only seen this concept on iTunes and a few other websites. I would like to see it more. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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What is AoD doing that ANN isn't? I don't see them doing anything different that ANN in regards to fansubs.
You are reading way too much into their little statement. And where are you finding Haruhi for $9? |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I have to agree, ANN has taken a very strong stand against fansubs, and they will continue to do so seeing as this site is considered one of the biggest in the industry. Could the recent Answerman column have been more obvious? |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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It's not really mis-distribution because most people still want a hard copy of items they buy. Don't assume that since you want your anime in a file on your computer that the rest do as well. I don't want to pay for a file, if I'm shelling out cash then I want the hard copy, the artwork and all that comes with it.
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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AoD just seems to be primarily about buying content while ANN often seems to be about discussing shows that are only available as fansubs. You just can't explain how you actually got the show. As long as you keep your mouth shut about that one tiny detail then you're free to spend as much time as you want jabbering on about your endless fansub watching. There may be just as many, or maybe even more, discussions about fansubbed shows over on AoD, but the net percentage of posts about them seems to be less compared to the percentage of ANN posts that deal with fansubbed content. Sure, we have a retail section and "What did you just buy?" thread but that's nothing compared to what AoD has going on over there. Honestly I'm kind of surprised this is even being questioned. I mean, c'mon, AoD's own name revolves around physical media and if you go there that's largely what you'll find. Chris Beverage's own signature line pretty much says it all, and his forum certainly seems to live up to its premise.
I don't quite follow you. Are you saying that you simply don't watch any fansubs, or just that you refuse to pay for them because they come as downloads? Or maybe something altogether different still? |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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No no, I was commenting on Terrestrial_Cel's comments regarding the problem of mis-distribution. Essentially claiming part of the problem is that we have to buy DVD's to support it, instead of buying the downloads. Just stating that I, and many others I know, prefer to buy a hard copy in the form of DVD's and I wouldn't want to pay money just to download a file. If I'm going to shell out the cash, I want the hard copy and the packaging that comes with it, not just some file to save on my hard drive.
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6880 Location: Kazune City |
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So if the quantity of threads about unlicensed vs. licensed series is a problem, where are all the threads about the licensed and fully released anime? Fansub series get discussed more because that's what people start and continue threads about. Honestly, I don't see many series-specific threads started by the 100%-Legal-DVD-only crowd. There have got to be enough slightly older, legally available series that enough people have seen to generate decent discussion. Even if some of these people are discussing it because they saw it on fansubs back in 2003, it would at least balance things out on the number of fansub series threads vs. available in R1 series threads, right? I don't know if too many people will know "random tournament wrestling show from 1994," but most post-1998 series have had enough exposure.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but...isn't it illegal to hack DVD firmware / players to bypass region encoding to play other-region DVDs? To me, it's inconsistent to say "Laws must be obeyed, so don't download fansubs, but feel free to do this other illegal thing to play imported DVDs." And if it's not wrong to import and play DVDs from other regions, then why should anyone complain about Japanese fans reverse-importing cheaper R1 DVDs? After all, they're still paying for a legitimate product, right? |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Hitokiri, Haruhi Vol. 1 RE (not limited edition) is available at any Sam Goody, Suncoast, or related chain store for $9 new, and has been for quite a while now. That sale price took effect about a month after it came out because they ordered WAY too many copies of Haruhi Vol. 1 and it didn't sell any better than the typical anime title, leaving them with huge overstock (literally, piles stacking up as high as can be balanced, in many stores I've seen). I mentioned the $9 Haruhi in the Haruhi thread a while back.
I think I agree with what Zalis just said about about legality of importing foreign-region (but official) DVDs, and the need for consistency in following one's own "moral code." I don't feel too strongly about this subject but personally I think it is "okay" to download fansubs in the case where the show is probably never going to be domestically available. But I don't think it is "okay" to download an anime which is obviously going to be licensed within the next couple years, so I don't condone the actions of the typical pro-fansub crowd at all. This has nothing to do with technical legality though, and whether someone else does things which aren't "okay" doesn't bother me at all either, they can do whatever they want and I won't think any less of them for it. I get bothered by the videos in the R1 Haruhi DVDs though because I hold companies to a higher standard than I do people, and I hate seeing stupid, unprofessional actions and products. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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I am going to requote:
I've always considered "DVDs" to be the plural of "DVD" but correct me if I have been wrong all this time. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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True. But, at the time of Haruhi's release there was only 1 DVD. And even if someone were to buy all 4 Haruhi regular edition DVDs, it would still be very cheap and not necessarily did they buy any of the other 100 anime titles that they pirate and watch for free. So the point stands regardless.
Also if you want to nitpick like that, there are also a couple of video discussions on that same topic in the ASOS videos...those AREN'T the semi-quotes you are referring to. And those discussions just use the word "DVD" sometimes I think. "Buy my DVD!" or something they said, lol. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6880 Location: Kazune City |
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So yes, porcupine, ASOS's words are a bit coddling and fail to take into account people who buy without downloading. But I'd say it's a better stance to take than some of the things I've read on this forum like "Fansub watchers are just a bunch of criminals and pirates, even if they buy the DVDs later." |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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Exactly, AoD allows it too. So what was it AoD was doing to make it more "Anti-fansub" than ANN?
And? I don't see how how this relates to the Anti-fansub thing. AoD has a lot of focus on the actual releases (mainly DVD, but manga and books as well), but they also have an off-topic forum, a Japanese culture forum, and a video game forum. So the main site is focused on the official releases, but the forums are even more varied than ANN's.
And yet, he has no problem with people discussing fansubs on his forums. In fact, there are at about a dozen ongoing discussions about series currently airing in Japan. AoD has more ongoing fansub discussions than ANN does.
Ah, okay. I never really payed attention to how much it is at FYE since I ordered it via TRSI. If I saw your post about the price before, I just forgot about it.
Actually, the video first came out when there were NO DVDs out yet. Seriously, you are reading way too much into their comments in the credits. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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The video was included as an extra on the DVD but was first released online - it was, in effect, the license announcement. The intended audience for the video was the online Haruhi fans, a fair proportion of whom will be fansub watchers, rather than the DVD-buying public at large. KadoUSA even put up a torrent and tracker for it. Also, note that it says "fansub viewers who buy the DVDs" not "fansub viewers who buy the Haruhi DVDs". |
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