Forum - View topicBrain Diving - You Fight like a Girl
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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not it's fine, i know about them as well i am just overwhelmed at the moment and no one could beat bern... nobody |
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Jessica Hart
 Posts: 219 |
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Well, just by googling I found an old article that says it got 8.8 one time http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/17/ratings-spongebob-earns-88-million-viewers/ And I definitely remember seeing other articles in the past that says it's gotten more, though I can't recall what they were called since I haven't watch Spongebob in ages.  I'll see if I can find 'em.
In my search, I also found, oddly enough, iCarly also got 8.8 million one time http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/04/26/icarly-nabs-basic-cable’s-top-entertainment-telecast-with-8-8-million-viewers/90677/ Maybe it's a lucky number for Nick. 
http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1264548/88m_watch_fairly_oddbaby_special/ Ok...that's weird... But anyway, my point was that 3 million isn't really brag worthy when you got multiple shows pulling in more than double that.
Nah, I just find it misguided when people use the internet or something very fluctuating like it to judge popularity. Like all those Firefly fans who say it was an amazing popular series screwed by the network, and it has millions of fans. Then the movie Serenity comes out and it bombed very hard because either it 'wasn't the movie fans would typically see' or there's only like 100 Firefly fans who go around bragging about it on various websites. 
It's just nice to have some kind of tangible proof (like aisles full of toys or ratings) backing those claims up is all, not something like "Oh, I see some convention panels and random shippers" or something. People always seem more encompassing on the internet than in reality, since most people don't care enough to go on forums and stuff A vocal minority can seem louder on the internet.
Queen Beryl was more of a case of how crazy woman are when they're in love than anything else . Her whole back story was a she was a sorceress on Earth who was in love with Prince Endymion, and was angered when she found out he loved a girl from the moon - Princess Serenity. Metalia, a demonic entity from the sun who wanted to conquer the solar system, sensed her anger and gave her power in order to exact revenge on the Moon Princess. Beryl invaded the Moon Kingdom with an army and then Queen Serenity sacrificed herself to stop her. Then they all get reborn on Earth and the conflict starts up again.
The whole 'kids are better thing' just seems to be a general theme. Digimon did something similar, where only kids could have and bond with Digimon because they had more imagination and innocence than adults did.  Plus when you're a kid, you want all the validation of being better than your parents you can get.
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14802 |
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That was for the Spongebob TV movie. But back up a second... You used to watch Spongebob?!?!
(Y'know, for someone who purportedly hates these stuff, you seem to be particularly familiar with many of them....)
You're right. I know iCarly is popular; didn't realize it's that popular now, even beating Spongebob's heyday. I guess those tween girls are getting even more into live-action teen shows. 
That's another TV special. I don't usually count those since they're usually an one-time peak that doesn't gauge the TV series appropriately.
It's still good though, particularly for cable and, lamentably, for an animated TV series. Even Toonami at its best would had loved to constantly reach that.
You have a point with Firefly. Another example would be Snakes on a Plane - prior and up to its first week of release, you would've thought it'd catch on. But Firefly is still a good series though - what, is it yet another non-Japanese series that you hate?
You know, there's huge toy sales figures of Bakugan. How many "fans" do you really encounter of the TV series? 
The people who would faithfully follow a TV series anyways are the same ones who are dedicated enough to talk about it. Sometimes constantly, like Lost fans.
Nah, it's just because kids can't look for many adult role models in Japan!
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Jessica Hart
Posts: 219 |
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I was a kid once.. the show's been on for like 12 years.
Well CN has always been 3rd place in ratings behind Nick and Disney. Even mediocre for Nick is still better than CN's usual stuff.
I don't hate it, just think it's a good example to use.
Well, enough for Nelvana to commission more of them from Japan apparently... actually, speaking of which, I really dislike that. Julie, Runo, and Alice were all my favorite characters in the first series, and they pretty much get written out after the first series and get replaced by some new guys since Nelvana apparently told Japan to mainly focus on the males... jerks  Alice makes sense, since spoilery reasons would prevent her from being in the second series much, but Runo and Julie have no excuse not to be in it.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Firefly WAS screwed by Fox from the get go. First they kept changing the premiere date which is essential for creating a strong viewership, and then two weeks after they began showing it, they didn't show it for 4 weeks to instead air baseball. And then when the show came back they began to skip random episodes, and re-arrange their viewing order. This would be fine for an episodic series, but Firefly was not episodic. I don't know whose bright idea was to make a movie for a tv series, but the idea fails straight out. Firefly at the time maybe had a good 6 million dedicate fans at the time the series canceled. That is NOT enough to make a blockbuster movie out of. A new season, sure, why not, but a blockbuster movie? You can't sell tickets to a movie that comes with a whole season of episodes with a whole storyline missing to new people and expect a big hit. Who wants to pay to see the ending of a story no one is familiar with? It would have been better if they made it a tv movie conclusion. The thing with Firefly now is that since being canceled all those years ago, fans have actively lent out dvds and the show has grown huge in fanbase via word of mouth (sort of like with Star Trek's original series when it was syndicated). There's been countess campaigns to try and get other networks to buy it, like sci-fi has done with some previously canceled shows, but fox doesn't like selling their previously canceled shows to rival networks. I'm still amazed Comedy Central got Futurama. Obviously I'm a Firefly fan who has just totally derailed the convo. How about... River from Firefly - she's a pretty fighting girl. Yeah. Course this is Buffy's creator at this point, and at this point in the 90s I know Whedon has seen anime (and then there's the whole Dollhouse show that fits in this). Still not sure about him with early movie Buffy, but he admitted in interviews around Firefly's creation that he was an anime fan. As a creator of pretty fighting girls though, there's a whole slew of psychology that this book doesn't even touch on since it sticks to the Otaku. Why is a gay man like Joss Whedon creating them? We can pretty much cross out him wanting to sleep with them, or see their boobs, or be dominated by them. What's the appeal? Why did Whedon like them from the get go? I'm more interested in this sort of psychology than the obvious connections to domination over shy, awkward heterosexual boys who can't get sex. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Well, Futurama was present on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim for some time before finally settling on Comedy Central. Not sure if that counts though. But the fact that Family Guy showed up on Adult Swim too must mean that FOX is okay with Adult Swim, for whatever reason.
It's Nickelodeon that refuses to give up shows to other channels. I can't recall a single case of any show emerging on some other station after Nick does away with it. Though I suppose Doug reincarnating as Brand Spankin' New Doug on ABC could count as a pseudo-example, as would Ren and Stimpy's Adult Cartoon Party on Spike. But if Nick cancels a show, chances are you will never see the episodes of that show on cable TV again. Nick doesn't screw with programs it dislikes the way FOX does though, certainly. That Firefly is serial made it more vulnerable than when Futurama was disrupted similarly. I must wonder if this behavior from whoever manages FOX's schedules has a disdain for fans of certain shows it has. "What are these nerds doing watching sci-fi? Go be a real man and watch some sports! Here's some football and baseball!" You know, that gave me a thought. Males have a pretty tight image to uphold regarding what they can like or dislike. Perhaps action figures for girls don't sell quite as well because it's okay for girls to like programming and toys associated with boys, but it's not okay for boys to like programming and toys associated with girls, and that includes action figures of female characters. So action figures of male characters get bought by both boys and girls, but those of female characters are mostly bought by boys who don't worry about image or girls who relate more with boys, which wre quite the tiny minority when I was that age. There's also homophobia, at least from parents. I've known boys who played with Barbie dolls and watched Strawberry Shortcake and I remember seeing their parents worried that their sons may be gay. It's part of the whole stereotype of the effeminate gay man. Maybe the kids don't really understand why, but if boys see their parents encouraging them to watch hypermasculine shows and avoid shows about women, he's going to comply. Finally, I'd like to bring up about why I think Japan is more into fighting girls and America more into fighting women: It seems that youthfulness and naivete are expected from women in Japan (hence the name of the book, I suppose). However, Americans look for maturity and confidence. (The brutal pedophilia laws in America may also play a part in this.) So as a result, your heroines in Japan are going to veer towards the young and inexperienced side, making lots of mistakes and learning how the world and other people work, such as with Cardcaptors Sakura. American heroines, on the other hand, will tend to be adults who have hardened up from years of training and combat, such as Wonder Woman. That being said, it seems that male heroes are like this too between the two countries. It's why Toshiro Hitsugaya is the most popular Bleach character in Japan but Kenpachi Zaraki has that spot in America, yet both characters are not even in the Top 10 in the other country. |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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Well, that's an interesting theory, but again, even the fighting women in America really aren't big movers of product. I mean, I loved Aeon Flux (the cartoon) but to most people it's a footnote now and the source for a really forgettable film. And nobody even remembers shows like, say, Cybersix. Even mature-phobic Japan basically gave us Motoko Kusanagi, who's probably the only animated fighting woman LEAD that most current Americans could probably name right now (if they can name any at all). Sidenote: I look at the box office receipts of Kill Bill 1+2 and while it did pretty well by QT standards, I'm still really shocked that the Kill Bill series didn't do better given its content. It has all the violence and geekish "fun" qualities mainstream audiences would seem to like. If the movies were about a guy called The Groom I bet it would have made twice as much money. It really is befuddling why the action females fail to take off here. It seems only Angelina Jolie has been able to carve a decent profit out of doing it, and some executives may only argue that it's just her and nobody else. I will note that I think the average American citizen feels it's more embarrassing to be attracted to a fictional heroine than they do a male one. Maybe there is a social barrier at work here. |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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IIRC, Whedon pretty much summed up in an interview like this: Q: Why do create so many strong female characters? Whedon: Because you're still asking that question. I think Whedon is trying to make the strong female character the norm, not the exception. After getting more "used" to such characters through anime, Whedon, etc., I do note that I don't even think about gender when I see a girl/woman kick some butt, but it seems a lot of people don't think like that. It's like in the movies when people see a dude take out a bunch of people, nobody acts like it's anything noteworthy, but when a woman does it, suddenly everyone has to note the gender. The fact that we even need an "Action Girl" section in TVtropes kind of says it all. I think Whedon is trying to kill this sort of mentality and make people learn to stop acting like seeing a girl kick butt is some sort of shocker or something. Of course, Whedon also knew better than to make all his female characters martial arts-masters or the like, but rather make all the female characters skilled and useful in whatever talents they have and give them strong characterization (which is IMHO the real definition of a "strong" female character). For example, Kaylee from Firefly would lose in most fights she got into, but it's her impressive skill as a mechanic and heartwarming attitude that makes her so beloved by the fans. Unfortunately, not all writers get this, and think they need every single one of their female characters to be a fighter. Granted, depending on the story that can be justified sometimes, but making all your female characters like that (especially if they're actually shallow characters who do nothing but kick butt) is often unnecessary, and has probably led to the idiotic notion from some readers/viewers that "if a girl doesn't fight in an action series, then she sucks". Not only is this view usually sexist (since non-fighting males usually don't get this criticism), but it's also just plain idiotic. The world operates because there's a diverse amount of occupations out there, if everyone just decided to become a soldier or fighter we'd be in a lot of trouble to say the least. |
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Jessica Hart
Posts: 219 |
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The best is when it's 'masked person takes out huge group of bad guys and saves the hero, who thanks him, then mysterious figure removes helmet to reveal a woman, and cue some comedic one liner or something how the hero assumed it was a guy" Which is why I never really bought the whole 'Samus is a strong character' thing. Sure, it was interesting I guess the first time you beat the game and see it was a woman since you never really thought about it.. but it seems like they purposely make her gender a non-issue in all the games by having her not talk, wear bulky ambiguous armor, and stuff; even after that first game big reveal. Then the one game they try to explore her as a character and give her vulnerabilities beyond being a silent Hollywood action chick is met with so much backlash and hostility they claim they 'ruined her character'. To which I always respond 'What character?' Whether you like Other M or not, she didn't really have a character to ruin.
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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I have to say I totally agree with doctordoom and Jessica Hart. I like interesting, complex characters, regardless of gender, which is why I hate the "action girl trope". To me, it's sad the we even have "guy movies" and "chick flics". Why can't we just have interesting stories with good characters everyone can relate to? I guess because too many people buy into the stereotypes, even the ones who say they don't.
As for the The Other M, my husband is a gamer and he loved it! He didn't understand all the hate, either. |
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Ryand-Smith
 Posts: 33 Location: Saratoga Springs |
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There was a pretty famous sci fi short story about this in fact, Childhood's End, which more or less is the ultimate "CHILDREN HAVE MAGICAL POWERS" sci fi story which is the source of this, at least from the post 1950 sci fi/fantasy constructs, I may be wrong. |
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