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Answerman - Why Did Saint Seiya Bomb In North America?


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Katkit



Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:05 pm Reply with quote
Here in Brazil Saint Seiya was responsible for a cultural, social and economic revolution. Is the most successful anime followed by second Pokémon and Dragon Ball Z in third.
Sailor Moon was not a great success here. Dragon Ball it took to start making success with the debut of Dragon Ball Z in TV Globo, Brazil's largest broadcaster, is that success beginning. When this happened was passed 5 years the premieres of Dragon Ball on Brazilian tv. The success came too late for Dragon Ball.
Saint Seiya debuted in Brazil in 1994, Dragon Ball in 1996 and Pokémon in 1998. But Dragon Ball only began to be success in 2001 with the debut of Dragon Ball Z
Saint Seiya to this day maintains records of sale and audience. .
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3461
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Lynx Amali wrote:
When it aired in Canada on Teletoon, I don't recall them trying to make Li an equal to Sakura. The show was primarily about Sakura. Li was just a member of the supporting cast, from what I remember. While we got the same dub (I think), there wasn't really any cut episodes nor was there anything aired completely out of order to the detriment of the story. Of course, I could be mis-remembering all this as the last time I watched the Canadian airing was years ago when they had it running absurdly early in the morning alongside Spider Riders and Megaman NT Warrior.

No, you're not remembering wrong. While the US version got heavily edited down to 39 episodes(and trying to make Li the main), other English-speaking territories like Canada and Australia got the entire 70-episode dub, in chronological order and minimal edits(at least compared to the US version).
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LadyKuzunoha



Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 91
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:08 pm Reply with quote
alorian wrote:
Ronin Warriors was popular enough to be geocities anime fansite standard fare back in the mid to late 90s, only a little less common than heavy hitters like Sailor Moon and Evangelion. It also had a huge slash fanfic community, and I promise that most readers of that genre at the time read as much RW as they did Gundam Wing.


This is much closer to what I recall from my days spent perusing Geocities. Pretty much any site hosting anime fanfic (provided it wasn't singularly devoted to a different series - this was an era of 'shrine' sites, after all) had at least one Ronin Warriors story, if not an entire section. But then, I suppose hits aren't usually defined by the level of fanwork production.

Other than that, I agree with most of what Justin said. I love Saint Seiya for everything that it is, but I do remember thinking back in 2003 that it was far too old to just then make its way to the States. Heck, I had issues getting people to watch series that were even five years old then (including Cowboy Bebop, which had been airing on Adult Swim for two years at that point!), let alone twenty.

I was disappointed that it failed, but I was not surprised.

[Edited to clarify a statement]
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6028
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:57 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Nigel is the leader, Hoagie is the engineer, Kuki handles distraction, Wallaby is the scout, and Abigail is the long-range specialist), and they also all had at least one story to themselves.


You're the first person I've ever seen refer to the kids by their names and not their numeral designations. Very Happy

Snomaster1 wrote:
In my opinion,the main reason for "Saint Seiya" not doing well here is that it just wasn't handled well. For me,the older look isn't the problem. Both "Sailor Moon" and "Dragon Ball Z" was well handled.


Gundam Wing, Tenchi Muyo, & Outlaw Star are one of the only animes that was aired on CN that I would argue as being "well handled".

MrBonk wrote:
I don't understand calling the art dated. It's unique and characteristic. And still looks good.


Because what supposedly looked good in the 1980's isn't going to look too good in the 21st century too everyone else.

silentjay wrote:


Kung-fu and ninjas are mainstream in North America, across numerous demographics


Martial arts and Ninjas aren't as mainstream as they were back in the 70's, 80's, and the 90's.

leafy sea dragon wrote:


Wasn't that Toonami Midnight Run and thus still Toonami? (An odd choice to put there though, as, based on what people said, it was heavily edited for content.)


If memory serves correctly Saint Seiya aired on "Saturday Video Entertainment System" which was a precursor of sorts to Prime-Time Saturday Toonami.
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F302 Pilot



Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Saint Seiya should of been on the Toonami block in the late90s/early 2000s

i wish ADV would have dub the whole show back then
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bradc



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:52 pm Reply with quote
WatchforMoons7 wrote:
Starting buying LOST CANVAS so we can see the rest of the Gold Saints. Laughing Pronto!


Saint Seiya: Lost Canvas, Myth of Hades did better in America when it streamed on Crunchy Roll. No word about the third seasons, which is a total drag when the story is better than the original, Kurumada Masami collaborated with Teshirogi Shiori.

Saint Seiya (Knight of Zodiac) bombed in N. America; they didn't even aired the Hades Arc back then with Chapter Santuary, Inferno and Elysion when it was playing during the time with DVD/Bu Ray relaeases in Japan and Europe, South America.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 am Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
Timing seems like the most appropriate answer. As for the comment about team-based Sentai shows I think the obsession America has with GoLion aka Voltron shows they are open to it. In Voltron's case it came out at the right time and was first. Even to this day I see Americans say Power Rangers ripped off Voltron or any kind of sentai team gets compared to Voltron. It was the first so therefore it is the de facto. Saint Seiya airing 20 years after its prime is just too much.

-Stuart Smith


Saint Seiya obviously has many references to greek mythology. It's what makes it so different from other fighting animes. It's no wonder it took off so well in France and Italy (although both french and italian dubs are a tragedy. On the same level as the half finished english one). There is a lot of self sacrifice, and manly tears (like in Fist of the North Star). Americans simply don't take well to this kind of anime. Maybe they find it too girly. Laughing
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:10 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
You're the first person I've ever seen refer to the kids by their names and not their numeral designations. Very Happy


Heh, I do the same when talking about Cyborg 009. Names are a lot less confusing than numbers.

BadNewsBlues wrote:
If memory serves correctly Saint Seiya aired on "Saturday Video Entertainment System" which was a precursor of sorts to Prime-Time Saturday Toonami.


Oh, I remember that! That was pretty short-lived. I do hear shows on that block associated with Toonami and lumped in with shows on Toonami, so that perhaps kind of jumbled up my memories.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:23 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:

Companies like Discotek and RightStuf/Noizumi probably take a loss on older titles just to satisfy the old codgers like me who sit in their rocking chair scaring the children away. Sentai must've been out of their MINDS to license LoGH (I thank them, however).


As an aside, are we really really really sure that Sentai licensed LOGH (the anime) 'cause it has been what 7 months since the announcement and yet nothing has materialised.
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FackuIkari



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Posts: 411
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:27 pm Reply with quote
just as a side note, Seiya's latin american voice actor just died today, he also was Rick Hunter (Robotech) and Yamcha (Dragon Ball) so yeah, sad Sad
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TonyTonyChopper



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 256
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:51 pm Reply with quote
Sometimes i wonder what of quality is actually popular with America anime fans ... For the most part they seem to be the most stupid fanddom around anyway ....
Despite that lot's of older things are still being released in NA by the likes of discotec rightstuff and some other's (only talking about anime now i guess) ... but not exactly best sellers ... and alot of it tends to be short things for the most part ...
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Quality is a highly subjective thing. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Among westerners, Pabst Blue Ribbon is considered one of the worst beers made in the United States, but in China, it's a Veblen good.

If what the mainstream likes and dislikes was easy to figure out, we wouldn't have box office bombs on the scale of The Lone Ranger.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1779
Location: South America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:45 pm Reply with quote
I get the impression that North American fans are more refined in their tastes than Japanese otaku. The reason is that it's harder to be a fan in the west since access to manga culture is not as easy and open compared to Japan. Hence only people with a more serious interest become fans.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6028
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:23 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

If what the mainstream likes and dislikes was easy to figure out, we wouldn't have box office bombs on the scale of The Lone Ranger.


Someone involved in the process of getting the movie made had to foresee this movie was going to fail largely due to the fact it was a modern western and an update of an old-school Radio Show/TV series/Comic Book (that hollywood has a bit of notorious track-record with.)

The fact that Disney also released John Carter which also bombed should've been an even bigger warning sign.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4386
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Themaster20000 wrote:
I always find interesting how some shows just blow up with a certain audience like with Saint Seiya. The show was just simply too old by the time it got released here to get an audience.It probably would've found an audience if got released during the 90's.


it probably would have taken an interest if it was released during the 80's right along with samurai pizza cats and lupin the third. it probably would have been successful. it never stood a chance in the 90's and 2000's considering it had to content with the likes of DB , DBZ , Gundam Wing and especially Pokemon. However the newer ones like lost canvas should have given a second look since their newer and the manga released by shonen jump and viz media was decently good and had its fanbase,but was outclassed by the manga version of DB and Naruto.

Quote:
A bigger problem is that, by the time the show got past the gatekeepers of the American market, it was simply too old. The original TV series ran in Japan from 1986 to 1989. While TV broadcasters in other markets picked it up and adapted it to great success, American interests never took the bait. Perhaps they considered it too bloody, or too visually out-there.


not necessarily. while the diehard otakus didn't care about the DIC version, there were some younger boys in the 7-13 demograph that was. i was one of them. also while it is true that the original TV series is ancient in itself, the newer OVAs like lost canvas and the rumors of a new TV series is definitely not old at the least. afraid their suffering from the same backlog that prevented maccross frontier from getting released in the US.
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