Forum - View topicREVIEW: Clannad After Story Sub.DVD 2
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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This would certainly allow me to understand the ratings a bit more, that's for sure. I also can't figure them out and it's left me a bit perplexed on the scoring given. This series had been my favorite despite some of its flaws, but given my years of anime watching, it's no wonder. Even thinking back, the number of bad series I've seen certainly outweigh the good ones. I'm starting to believe this is why the scales are swung so large. In many people's favorite listings, the same titles repeat themselves so much, it seems new series can't compete unless some significant factor represents a differing storyline of those in the past. Especially when people seem to reject "copycat" series quickly. I believe this is why Clannad and its sequel are so well rated. It certainly is something different when compared to other titles in the last decade. In each person's favorite listings, those similar titles are all based on their individual uniqueness. Rarely, if ever, do I see people's list contain a series listing from the same type of genre/story line. Their own listings are swung all over the place, relying on those unique elements belonging to the series. (for example, my top 3 are Aria, Clannad, and Kanon and not Clannad, Death Note, Cowboy Bebop) I had often wondered what the perception of the ANN rating system would be if age (whether it be actual or number of years watching anime) was included in the information. Would people treat the information differently as they do now? I believe it would. Experience has always been a relying factor as many people would take the "advice" of one having it over someone who just entered the field. This is why I personally limit the ranking system to 3 years maximum. I would love to see how the rankings are ordered if even the series production date was included. I seriously doubt this series would retain its #2 position, let alone be in the Top 25, no matter how many list it in their favorites. |
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Gigibi
Posts: 3 |
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Awesome series, the 2nd season anyways. The 1st was only okay (good thing Nagisa is adorable) but can't really judge it since I knew from the beginning that the real meat was in the "After Story" arc. The 2nd half of AS is better than many many other shows combined anyways. It saddens me that there won't be another series that will make me feel the way this one did for a long long time.
Overall 9.5/10 I have no problem with the "cop-out" ending at all. The anime version could had been explained the ending better (since most of us will never play the game) but that's okay. Key could have easily just give in and went with the guarantee win "bittersweet ending" since they know it would be more likely to have a bigger impact and be more deep and memorable and all that but I'm glad they didn't. They already did that with "Air" and there are many shows and VN that go that route. May seem cheap to stir up your emotions and then give it a happy ending anyway but that only makes it a win-win situation to me. Glad its a happy ending, can never hate happy endings. There are people who will whine if it wasn't a happy ending anyways. Heard the main point of of the game is not "moving on" or things like that; its suppose to be able the town, seeing everyone as family, and helping them achieve happiness (the whole point of the light orbs) or something like that. |
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TC-man
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I also don't find the socalled "copping out" ending horrible at all, since I don't experience it as copping out. I rather see it as a second chance for Tomoya. The only problem I have is that Nagisa kind of become an extra who didn't spoke at the end of the series, but it 's quite cute to see her (finally!) with her daughter Ushio being together. As for a sequel, I think it's kind of possible since there's still Tomoyo After: It's a Wonderful Life left. Okay, it actually more of an alternate retelling, but it's really good. So I really want the anime creators to make an anime adaptation of it. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Well if the system isn't misreporting it's now #1 so looks like that prediction Theron made about it going down over time was completely wrong as it only seems to keep going up for whatever reason (proxy voting? It is a bit odd the consistency with which it's been going up as everything else seems to fluctuate around it). Whatever the cause I guess it kind of speaks for the era of anime and critical standards (does the fact that it seems to have consistently sparked some emotional rise/crying fit in viewers as testified by more people than I count outweigh the critical flaws that have been noted here regarding it's slow beginning and controversial ending and is that what the standard for top anime is to the people that voted it in?) we live in if nothing else. 
Truthfully though given the borderline indoctrination and fanaticism I've seen fans of this show demonstrating even in this thread (and not to mention the bizarre competitiveness they seem to have with it's status versus seemingly every other anime that's ever existed) I can't say I'm even the least bit surprised it slipped it's way in here like it has on other such ranking polls on other sites. In fact I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if I were to find out in the near future that there are still a lot of people out there who would argue that Clannad still isn't getting whatever they think is it's due even now. 
Alright I think I need to go over a few things now for posterity's sake because I think this will all serve for a good example for something or other at some point in the future: An adaption of a visual novel/dating sim game about a semi-depressed high schooler dating and eventually marrying a girl that is the very definition of the submissive Yamato Nadeshiko fetish; a game/anime that has countless similarities both superficial and deeply rooted to other games by it's producer such that it can almost be accused of rehashing character arc ideas; an anime that focuses almost half of it's run time on screwball slapstick and moe driven fetishistic comedy and much of the other half on consistently creating almost entirely circumstantial and sudden pathetic scenarios for it's female characters in the interests of evoking a shock emotional response from viewers; an anime that even creates the exact same pathetic scenario twice and even back to back in a very short timespan only to just as suddenly alter events so that both scenarios never took place via the use of a very loosely defined Chekhov's Gun plot device in it's anime rendition; An anime that in doing so essentially corrupts the semi-moralistic theme of a widower overcoming the loss of his wife and his own self-pity in order to become a proper father to his daughter......is an anime that if we are to go by anime ranking polls is almost universally considered by today's anime fandom to be the greatest anime to date. Copied to a notepad document and saved for future use. |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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lol, and to think that back in 2005, I thought that Air would never be popular among English-speaking anime fans. And now its spiritual successor has become the #1 rated anime on ANN?
Quite humorous I must say. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Well only one of the conditions necessary for such a "choice pick" was in place back in 2005. Back then Kyoto Animation had yet to build it's mythological/cult status of being utterly flawless and the "best animation producer" bar none. Nowadays every single one of their shows enjoys nearly incomparable and consistent hype regardless of it's actual content and quality and there is essentially little doubt that whatever they adapt will be declared as a masterpiece practically before it even airs. New fans are also being introduced to anime during an age where Kyoto Animation is borderline deified and thought to be flawless by many a fanboy and I can't think of any other era during my 15+ years as an anime fan where a studio has been treated in such a completely unrealistic and unreasonable way. It borders on indoctrination as I said above and all you have to do to see it is to look anywhere on any forum or blog that is discussing them or one of their shows. Combine this bordeline cult fandom of Kyoto Animation with the equivalent cult fandom that Key/Visual Arts fans have towards their games and the fact that they seemingly believe Clannad to be the single greatest story ever told (Air was actually.....get this..... constructively criticized *gasp* as well because people still actually did that to Kyoani/Key stories back in 2005), one that lacks in even a single flaw or shortcoming, and you create a perfect storm of support wherein Clannad After Story works it's way into the #1 spot wherever you look. TL;DR: Oh fanboys....
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Nagisa is more the timid sickly girl than a yamato nadeshiko. For actual yamato nadeshiko characters, refer to Belldandy and Aoi Sakuraba. I don't mean to use this as a counterpoint to your argument, just as a small nitpick. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Indeed, I didn't want to bring that up because it seemed like a well written piece, but to provide further example would be Nagisa working as a waitress, since we all know that Yamato Nadeshiko are only supposed to take care of their husband and are to stay in the house cleaning, etc.
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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I think you've made a fair analysis. I'm always more than happy to accept counterpoints to my posts as long as they are based in reason and/or supported with examples. 
Edit: Wow so I've been following it's place in the Bayesian ranking the past few updates and can safely say beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's being proxy voted up to the #1 spot and will probably stay there because of it. Last night I saw Samurai X go back up to #1 only to see it immediately drop by a whopping .2 points tonight with a hilarious 15 or so worst ever votes added to it's total which is also about 20% of it's cumulative total of worst ever votes from the previous night. Somebody is obviously really insecure about Clannad After Story and it's actually kind of funny if unsurprising since I've seen the exact same thing happen on MAL and AniDB. Only thing left to wonder is if it's the same guy doing it for all of them..... Anyway looks like the emperor wears no clothes. |
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dgreater1
 Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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Are you seriously believing that the reason CLANNAD AS is Dangling at that position is only due to the fanboys? If so, why aren't BLEACH, NARUTO, or any other maintstream show that drowns the other ones in top ten in terms of having fanboys, not have a higher position than them? People watched it and like it, people watched it and didn't like it, end of story. And no, please don't tell me it's because a lot of hater also exist for that series because we'll end up in circle. Not really sure, but I get the feeling you're just attacking the fans because you can't accept that a lot of them liked the show despite the flaws you saw which most think that it's not really a flaw. And since we're talking about #1 and 2#, tell me the difference between a show that answers your question (Rurouni Kenshin) and about a show that gives you questions to answer (CLANNAD) beside contrastiing each other. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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Like I mentioned in my edit above, the difference between Clannad and Rurouni Kenshin is that one has somebody fake voting it up and the other quite possibly the same person REALLYfake voting it down. When a title gets 15 worst ever votes added to it's name in one night which is about 1/5 of the worst ever votes it received in it's entire history prior to January 28th it's small wonder that the one below it has climbed the ranks. That's an exploitable system like this for you and that's zealot fanboys as well. Also obviously Bleach, Naruto, One Piece etc. don't have the same exploitation of the voting system going on for them despite their mainstream popularity. Guess their fans just don't care as much about proving their favourite shows "superiority" over everything else by "giving it the position it deserves" or whatever the line people use for Clannad is.[/b] |
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dgreater1
Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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I see the point about exploitation but, your post seemed more like the shows wouldn't be in that position if it weren't for "fanboys." To make it more clear, the voters of those shows are "fanboys." The more you feel for the show and how you feel it's superior to others, the more people would be insecure about it. But it doesn't mean that all are insecure about it. And about vote spamming, I hardly think it would affect others for liking and disliking the show and that's what matters. The higher the votes and rank of the votes are in a show. the higher it also has the lowest vote. Popularity draws in negativity as well. Think about showbiz, politics, etc. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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I honestly have no idea what it is you are trying to say or what point you are trying to make.
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dgreater1
Posts: 307 Location: in the Phillipine's AIR space with Misuzu |
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Okay, since you're practically asking for a more understandable reason on my line of thoughts. Although, bear with me because it might/will come in aggresively.
Assuming there's a single person voting it up, would that change the fact there there are also a lot of other people who single voted those shows to that position? Your message implies that because it's constantly going up, it must be being proxy voted by someone. Sure, we can assume a single person might be doing that but don't forget that it also applies to the ones nearest to it. So to reverse your thoughts, "Someone is voting Rurouni Kenshin up and someone fake voting CLANNAD down."
This one as well. You're assuming that just because the show induced a "emotional rise/crying fit" to the viewers, the viewers disregarded the flaws of the show. Beside, you're also assuming that the controversial ending is a "flaw", well, to you it might be, but to others it's certainly "NOT". As I said before, what's the difference between a show that answers your questions to a show that gives you questions to answer beside being opposite? And the bolded part of your message? I only see it as a rant so I won't dwell on that. Then the next post.
That's because they consistently made good shows but whatever it is, your "whatever they adapt will be declared as a masterpiece practically before it even airs." is just another assumption.
Erm... let's compare Code Geass, Suzumiya, Death Note, CLANNAD and others in terms of fandom... Wow! They recognize CLANNAD as a good if not, a masterpiece show! But seriously, are you thinking that the reason it worked it's way up to that spot (see? I'm not being specific about being #1 or #2, but being in that spot) is because of KyoAni+KEY VisualArt's fandom? You could add that reason but trying to imply that it's the most obvious reason is another one of your assumption. So, I'll be blunt, your message seemed like a rant that says KYOANI/KEY VisualArts fans/fanboys are doing these weird things on the spot list. Also, you seemed like trying to imply that it wouldn't be in that spot if it wasn't being proxied. If it's not then you should be more clear about it. Another note, I like AIR more than CLANNAD. AIR being #248 in Ranking while CLANNAD being far far away from it. One is a completely spoiler[tragic end] the other one is a mixture of all you can think of. But as if I care about its position. Another one is 3x3 Eyes, one of my all time favorite and I don't care about your negative opinion about it. I Like Them Period But I don't like innocent fans being targeted. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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I don't really see what that has to do with the price of bananas. We could sit here and argue what-ifs all day, but the fact that somebody saw fit to interfere with the regular voting process means it's impossible to know what the result would be otherwise. It's a bit of a Schroedinger's Cat scenario.
Again it's kind of hard to go on anything other than what I've seen. The vast majority of Clannad's die hard fanbase that I've seen have pretty much exclusively cited how much the show made them cry as the reason it's so important to and their favourite anime. Also this is one of the only places where I've seen anybody dare to point out or highlight some of the series shortcomings. The vast majority of people I've seen who are fans of the show seem to pretend it's completely flawless and snap to attention with any number of excuses for it's shortcomings should anybody dare to point them out. It's not assumption, I'm going on what I've seen and how people act and react where this show is concerned.
"Good" is in the eye of the beholder. If you were to ask any average Kyoani fanboy what they think of their shows of course they would start pontificating about their so called track record of perfection, but if you ask me they've just got a whole lot of hype going for them and not a lot of quality content to back it up. At least not to anywhere remotely close the extent to which they are praised for having. You ask some of the more extreme fanboys and it's like they have never made a single mistake in their entire history of production and that they have no room for improvement because they are "perfect". Also if you want to see the latest example of pre-release masterpiece declaration I'll cite the upcoming Haruhi movie as an example. It's more quiet than some of their prior works' pre-release hype, but I can virtually guarantee you once the first new screenshot/news breaks on February 6th it's going to be a mad rush by many to declare it the greatest anime film to date. Should I be wrong in this prediction I will gladly and voluntarily admit it myself in a relevant thread some time next month.
Again Schroedinger's cat scenario because who is to know how things would be otherwise. All I do know is that it is being proxied up and it is more than likely because of a zealot fanboy. What happened to that comparison by the way?
People working behind the scenes to deliberately manipulate and corrupt the ranking polls on this site are innocent fans now? |
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