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REVIEW: Dragon Ball Z Kai Blu-Ray Part 8


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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1872
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:21 pm Reply with quote
People can praise this release all they want. It's no atonement for the BS that FUNimation pulled in 2006 and 2011.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Your friend is American. When people say 'Japanese' they mean nationality, and being raised in on the culture. No matter what race or ethnicity someone is, if he was born and grew up in the states, he'll have an American viewset. Culture is the big factor when it comes to these, not ethnicity. Even so, one 'friend' isn't a valid sample size for a poll.


I chuckled. Titan injecting himself in to a discussion to blast something related to the US once again.

If he's guilty of giving his friend too much credibility then you're equally guilty of not giving him enough. Even if he is an American raised person of Japanese descent, there's a good chance that there is still a great deal of Japanese culture present in his upbringing. Not to mention that as a person who was raised to be fluent in Japanese they are still far more qualified to judge the nuances of a performance in Japanese than your average Joe who doesn't know Japanese or didn't grow up with it to the extent they'll be able to pick up on the little things that a person who isn't fluent would not.

All things are not equal, and your outright implication that he is somehow ethnically cleansed of Japanese culture just because he was raised in the US is a huge leap in logic. You don't know the person or just how truly Japanese his upbringing was. Geographic location doesn't define ones upbringing, the parents and the family and that which is around them does. While he is not likely as definitively Japanese as someone who lives there, living in America and being raised in America still does not magically cleanse the individual of their cultural past. Dismissing their opinion because they're American raised is poor form, not to mention potentially insulting.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 1176
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:16 pm Reply with quote
@ Keonyn: Thank you.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Oh yes, I'm such a rabid dub hater, because I particularly hate one English dub which spits in the face of the intentions of the studio. A dub that constantly rewrote giant swaths of dialogue, made characters garish stereotypes through bad writing and amateur voice acting from people Funimation randomly dragged off the streets of Ft Worth, and largely ignored the tone of key scenes or even the show as a whole. Why ever would I hate the DBZ dub? It was only a f**king insult to the original work, is all.

DBZ is soooooo much better off being about whatever Funimation wanted it to be about instead of what it's supposed to be. Excuse me for daring a dub studio to respect a show.

TopGunman wrote:

Goku bloody sounds like a chick, and don't pull this 'man-child' card because that is a bullsh*t excuse.


Well, first of all, Akira Toriyama himself chose Nozawa to be Goku, and to him that's what Goku sounds like in his head.

Second, Nozawa's adult Goku is a natural progression of her child Goku voice. If you just start watching at Z, yes, it's very jarring, but if you watch from the original DB into Z, it's a perfect fit.

Third, no English dub voice has ever captured the same amount of charm and sincere warmth Nozawa brings to the character.

Fourth, yes, Goku is a man child, but also his personality trumps his physicality, his spirit is stronger than his physical body. It's reasonable for him to have a slighty child-sounding voice.

taco123 wrote:
I am not sure I've ever heard anyone say they preferred the original Japanese soundtrack over FUNi's. I respect your opinion though, I'll never share it.


How about most Japanese people and the first generation of American DBZ fans? Back in the day you couldn't go anywhere on the internet that liked the English dub music.

Tried going to the Kazenshuu website forums? You'll find plenty of people who prefer the Japanese soundtrack.

DBZ is essentially wuxia, and Kikuchi's more operatic approach to the material is superior to soulless cash-in electronica-rock.

And let's say Faulconer's music was better (it's not, but let's pretend it is). It's not DBZ's music. It's not Funimation's place to improve a show. It shows a disrespect for the show. Funimation did not make DBZ. They didn't write the manga, that's Toriyama, and they didn't animate the show, that's Toei. Their job isn't to improve anything. Their job is to do justice to the original verison of the show.

Also, it's pretty easy to claim, "I have a Japanese friend and he prefers the English version!" without any evidence.

Now I know a lot of you grew up watching dubbed DBZ on television, rushing home after elementary school let out to chug a chocolate milk, eat some Teddy Grahams, suck your thumbs and watch HARDCORE XTREEME DBZ RAWKIN MONDO COOL MANLY fun, but that was never DBZ.

At least Kai's dub shows some respect.


Last edited by penguintruth on Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:48 pm Reply with quote
@penguintruth
Wow, I'm seeing a LOT of opinions in there. Also, you know Dragon Ball Z is a crap show, right? We're not talking Mobile Suit Gundam here, the English dub's worth is one hundred percent based on its entertainment value, with points deducted for changing things needlessly.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:56 pm Reply with quote
I dislike the "Well, it's not like DBZ is some masterpiece, who cares if the dub isn't accurate/well acted/etc?" thing I get sometimes.

Just because the show isn't Cowboy Bebop doesn't mean it deserved to be dubbed as poorly as it was.

All shows deserve an accurate and well-acted dub that's respectful to the original version, regardless of their quality. Because to somebody, that show IS a masterpiece.

If Funimation did today what it did to DBZ a decade ago? Nobody would shut up over how bad they did. But people give the DBZ dub a pass because they watched it on Toonami as a kid.

If the 4Kids dub of One Piece was the version everyone grew up with you'd see defenders of that, too. I mean, so what if there's a One Piece rap, right? It's not like One Piece is Evangelion, right? Let's not treat a show like that with any respect, because it's just a stupid fighting show!

No. Nobody should get away with that. On ANY show.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:22 pm Reply with quote
The original DBZ dub was entertaining and convincing. Almost all its problems are things you're attributing to it. Replacing the music was an unfortunate, disrespectful choice. You claim it's badly-acted? I don't agree, and I think almost all English dubs are badly-acted. It's your opinion, and your fanboyishness.
penguintruth wrote:
I dislike the "Well, it's not like DBZ is some masterpiece, who cares if the dub isn't accurate/well acted/etc?" thing I get sometimes.
It's not whether it's a masterpiece or not, it's what's important to conveying its intent. It's a brainless fighting show, none of that was missed in translation. The only real negatives are your (seemingly arbitrary) complaints and things like the music. What exactly did they do that so trampled over the original's character and spirit, anyway?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:43 pm Reply with quote
They completely changed the point of several key scenes, inserted "jokes" in character dialogue from characters intended to be serious, completely make up motivations, and generally talked down to the audience.

For instance, a scene in which, in the Japanese, Goku spares Vegeta's life on Earth because he really wants to fight him again, despite it putting the entire planet at risk, becomes in English a scene where Goku wants to spare him because it's the right thing to do, because "We have to show him there's a different way." One version conveys Goku's overwhelming obsession with finding a challenge. The other? Typical feel-good superheroism nonsense.

Tons of characters suffer from Funimation's dub. Freeza especially, making him into some disturbing wisecracking transvestite who may want to have sex with Goku, instead of a sophisticated yet merciless mobster.
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baadaku12345



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:54 pm Reply with quote
I'm surprised that Masako's Goku still sounds perfect after many years since the original series began.
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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:04 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
For instance, a scene in which, in the Japanese, Goku spares Vegeta's life on Earth because he really wants to fight him again, despite it putting the entire planet at risk, becomes in English a scene where Goku wants to spare him because it's the right thing to do, because "We have to show him there's a different way." One version conveys Goku's overwhelming obsession with finding a challenge. The other? Typical feel-good superheroism nonsense.


Sounds at worst like a lateral movement to me. Either rationale is a little dumb, but the original Japanese would make Goku a reprehensible selfish and irresponsible near lunatic, whereas the adaptation at least gives him some sort of ethical principle, albeit a painfully simplistic one naïvely realized. Unless the Japanese version of Dragonball Z was subtly critical of Goku's perspective as part of a critique of a culture that glorifies violent conflict as an end in itself, perhaps as a criticism of historical Japanese militarism.

Well, probably not. Maybe that's why I just can't get into shōnen series.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:06 pm Reply with quote
Freeza was basically the same in English, you're insane. The changed dialogue is bullshit, though.
I still think every character minus Cell (who sounds pretty damn amazing, but no one on Earth (or Namek lol) is the equal of Norio Wakamoto) sounds superior in English, though, and people who prefer English prefer the way the characters sound, not what they've done with the dialogue.
At any rate, we're supposed to have a more faithful translation, which basically eliminates all the problems.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
Sounds at worst like a lateral movement to me. Either rationale is a little dumb, but the original Japanese would make Goku a reprehensible selfish and irresponsible near lunatic, whereas the adaptation at least gives him some sort of ethical principle, albeit a painfully simplistic one naïvely realized.


Exactly. The English Goku is bad enough with his love of fighting, but the Japanese Goku takes the cake. I'd rather have a naive yet moralistic and idealistic Goku than one that enjoys playing with people's lives just so he can get his kicks.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
the original Japanese would make Goku a reprehensible selfish and irresponsible near lunatic


YES. That is the f**king point of the character. He's a manchild. He's often childish and irresponsible. He leaves his family at the end of the show to train some stranger he just met! We're talking about a guy who gave Cell a senzu bean and let him beat the crap out of his son.

Goku is a reprehensible person at times. But that's part of his charm.

It's not Funimation's place to make Goku a better person. Frankly, while that kind of character just isn't as interesting as how Goku is intended.

It is not Funimation's place to make Goku a better person. Akira Toriyama's Son Goku is not the most admirable guy. THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM INTERESTING.

Goku IS a lunatic. He's a brain damaged hillbilly who came from a race of mass-murderers. The brain damage is actually his saving grace.
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jymmy



Joined: 11 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:24 pm Reply with quote
That's the thing, it's not a matter of what you'd prefer, it's what the character actually is. A dub should translate the work and its intent, not change it. That's disrespectful towards the creator and the fans, and in principle a stupid thing to do. Even if it were a well-received change, it's not a choice they should make, nor one they have the right to.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:25 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I chuckled. Titan injecting himself in to a discussion to blast something related to the US once again.

If he's guilty of giving his friend too much credibility then you're equally guilty of not giving him enough. Even if he is an American raised person of Japanese descent, there's a good chance that there is still a great deal of Japanese culture present in his upbringing. Not to mention that as a person who was raised to be fluent in Japanese they are still far more qualified to judge the nuances of a performance in Japanese than your average Joe who doesn't know Japanese or didn't grow up with it to the extent they'll be able to pick up on the little things that a person who isn't fluent would not.

All things are not equal, and your outright implication that he is somehow ethnically cleansed of Japanese culture just because he was raised in the US is a huge leap in logic. You don't know the person or just how truly Japanese his upbringing was. Geographic location doesn't define ones upbringing, the parents and the family and that which is around them does. While he is not likely as definitively Japanese as someone who lives there, living in America and being raised in America still does not magically cleanse the individual of their cultural past. Dismissing their opinion because they're American raised is poor form, not to mention potentially insulting.


Ignoring the obvious bait, the point wasn't about 'acting' but preferring one voice cast over the other. Obviously if he grew up with the American dub like most of America he wouldn't be in the same boat as all the Japanese kids in the 80s/90s who grew up watching it in Japanese. That's why playing the 'even this Japanese guy I know says" card doesn't work in this instance, it'd least have it actually be a native Japanese who grew up with the original cast for the statement to have worth (not that it would, one person isn't a valid sample size).

jymmy wrote:
It's not whether it's a masterpiece or not, it's what's important to conveying its intent. It's a brainless fighting show, none of that was missed in translation. The only real negatives are your (seemingly arbitrary) complaints and things like the music. What exactly did they do that so trampled over the original's character and spirit, anyway?


Well they madeGoku into Superman in the dub. He's not supposed to be some morally righteous superhero. He's a dumb shounen protagonist who loves to fight and doesn't even know what marriage is despite being married because Chichi tricked him when they were kids.

A lot of the dialog is altered on the DVD, even the 'uncut' dub is still a heavily altered script. Uncut just means no video cuts in that regard. Music alone changes the entire tone, it's suppose to be kooky and lighthearted Japanese music, not grunge extreme American rock. There's a reason they got the same guy who did the theme for DBZ to do the theme/music for Ganbare Goemon in the later games, which Dragonball heavily influenced. That's what it's suppose to be like.
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