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NEWS: Bandai Head: No Plans for 2009 Gundam TV Series


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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Reinhard Von Lohengram wrote:
I'd like to see a new Universal Century series (although, I guess thats redundant, since every Gundam series, past present and future is part of the same, big continuity, according to Turn A, which is an idea I like, actually) I think an adaptation of some of the post- Char's Counterattack stories would be pretty interesting, or some of the post F91 stories. Anything after Victory Gundam, I'm not too sure.
I want to see Char's Deleted Affairs, purely for the Haman factor.

And yes, Turn A Gundam felt like a good end for the Gundam continuum. A war that ends all wars without using a universal reset button.
edzieba wrote:
Sorry, sarcasm doesn't transfer well over the internet, so I'll have to be blunt: Are you extending a long-running joke of which I am not aware, or do you seriously not merely have the wrong end of the stick in regards to how franchise and trademark licensing works (and the history of the ownership of the Gundam franchise is hardly difficult to look up), but are so far past wrong that you are in an entirely different forest?
No, I was merely pointing out your lack of critical thinking with a criticism. You had no idea how copyrights and licensing of intellectual property works in a corporate ownership, and here you are trying to sound like you knew something profound about the Gundam franchise. How you mistaken that as sarcasm is beyond me, unless of course you took offense when you realized that you just made a mistake at attacking me with a sarcasm of your own:
edzieba wrote:
Bandai hold distribution rights, Sunrise hold the creative rights. Big whoop.

On February 1994, Sunrise became a part of the then Bandai Group through corporate ownership, and Bandai became Sunrise's parent company. This hasn't changed in the past 15 years, and so is the ownership on the Gundam franchise. In fact, when you take a look on any Gundam model kit's packaging, you will only see the Bandai logo but no Sunrise. If Sunrise was the creator and hence, the owner of the Gundam franchise like you claimed, then why is it that there is no Sunrise logo on any Gundam merchandise except the official licensed anime DVD?
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:01 am Reply with quote
You can't have it both ways: Either you're claiming:
Quote:
Bandai became Sunrise's parent company. This hasn't changed in the past 15 years, and so is the ownership on the Gundam franchise.
Or:
Quote:
Sunrise Studio had been deliberately sat up by Bandai Entertainment to take the bulk of the financial failure that's the Gundam anime TV series licensed DVD sales, by making Sunrise Studio the copyright holder of the animated TV advertisement that was the Gundam anime TV series.
There is no monolithic THIS IS GUNDAM copyright that only cone company may ever posses. It is fractured and sublicensed.

The way it actually works: Sunrise hold the creative license for the TV sows (that they created) and the overall Gundam trademark (i.e. the rihht to call something 'Gundam'. this is often sublicensed). Bandai hold the distribution rights to the Gundam franchise. This includes the DVD distribution rights, and the obvious toy and kit distribution rights. If you look at almost any DVD release, you will see the distributors logo prominently, and the animation studio will only get a note on the back cover text. That's how licensing works.


And you've still skirted around the actual point of my original post: that the 30th Anniversary Project proper has not yet been announced.

::EDIT:: on an unrelated sidenote:
Quote:
And yes, Turn A Gundam felt like a good end for the Gundam continuum. A war that ends all wars without using a universal reset button.
It may not have been a universal reset, but the Moonlight Butterfly spoiler[was essentially a solar-system-wide reset button (it's area of effect spreads out to the orbit of Jupiter), and had occurred several times before, with the each separate gundam timeline in the 'black history' being punctuated and separated by the destruction of advanced civilisation by the Moonlight Butterfly effect.]. Still a nice cap on the franchise though (and somewhat bypassed by Seed and 00 not falling into the same composite timeline). Unless by a surprise twist spoiler[the 'aliens' of Gundam 00 are in fact the return of the Newtypes, whose exodus war created the Turn-series suits in the first place. This would involve a time loop though (or for AD to be subsequent to UC), so is highly unlikely and falls into Epileptic Trees territory.] Assuming that CC is interpreted as a literal composite timeline, rather than symbolic of Tomino's wish to "quit with all the gundam franchises, I'm done already!".
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:55 am Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
You can't have it both ways: Either you're claiming:
Quote:
Bandai became Sunrise's parent company. This hasn't changed in the past 15 years, and so is the ownership on the Gundam franchise.
Or:
Quote:
Sunrise Studio had been deliberately sat up by Bandai Entertainment to take the bulk of the financial failure that's the Gundam anime TV series licensed DVD sales, by making Sunrise Studio the copyright holder of the animated TV advertisement that was the Gundam anime TV series.
There is no monolithic THIS IS GUNDAM copyright that only cone company may ever posses. It is fractured and sublicensed.

The way it actually works: Sunrise hold the creative license for the TV sows (that they created) and the overall Gundam trademark (i.e. the rihht to call something 'Gundam'. this is often sublicensed). Bandai hold the distribution rights to the Gundam franchise. This includes the DVD distribution rights, and the obvious toy and kit distribution rights. If you look at almost any DVD release, you will see the distributors logo prominently, and the animation studio will only get a note on the back cover text. That's how licensing works.
And what do you think it's gonna happen, when the distributor(Bandai) of a franchise(Gundam) became the owner of the creator(Sunrise) who produces the franchise's intellectual property(Gundam TV anime series) through corporate ownership and sponsorship? That's right, the distributor then owns the franchise by becoming one of the franchise's own corporate executives and sponsors.
edzieba wrote:
And you've still skirted around the actual point of my original post: that the 30th Anniversary Project proper has not yet been announced.
When Bandai made the executive decision on no more future anime project of Gundam for Sunrise by not sponsoring a new Gundam TV production in 2009. Sunrise can't do anything but to listen to Bandai. Get the picture yet?
edzieba wrote:
::EDIT:: on an unrelated sidenote:
Quote:
And yes, Turn A Gundam felt like a good end for the Gundam continuum. A war that ends all wars without using a universal reset button.
It may not have been a universal reset, but the Moonlight Butterfly spoiler[was essentially a solar-system-wide reset button (it's area of effect spreads out to the orbit of Jupiter), and had occurred several times before, with the each separate gundam timeline in the 'black history' being punctuated and separated by the destruction of advanced civilisation by the Moonlight Butterfly effect.]. Still a nice cap on the franchise though (and somewhat bypassed by Seed and 00 not falling into the same composite timeline). Unless by a surprise twist spoiler[the 'aliens' of Gundam 00 are in fact the return of the Newtypes, whose exodus war created the Turn-series suits in the first place. This would involve a time loop though (or for AD to be subsequent to UC), so is highly unlikely and falls into Epileptic Trees territory.] Assuming that CC is interpreted as a literal composite timeline, rather than symbolic of Tomino's wish to "quit with all the gundam franchises, I'm done already!".
Bandai like the Gundam cash cow so much, they don't care about what the original creator Tomino's wishes, now that they don't need him for any further anime project.
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Reinhard Von Lohengram



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:13 pm Reply with quote
I remember reading where Tomino said that any series after Turn A (which would include Seed and 00) are also part of the Black History era. But, I guess you can look at it anyway you want. Its kind of easy to place certain ones in certain places, without using the Moonlight Butterfly effect to differentiate between them; like X is obviously a continuation of UC, maybe 200 or 300 years after G-Savior (which is canon, surprisingly enough). And Wing could be around 200 years after peace with the colonies in X (hence the AC dates). Neat stuff to think about, if anything.

A story explaining the end of the Black History era, i.e first use of Turn A, would be cool story to see, but I don't think Turn A was popular enough to do something with again. Maybe not, who knows.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:40 pm Reply with quote
I really don't think you're meant to actually piece together Dark History. It's really more of a representative element of the history of the franchise, and not a literal puzzle of the various continuities.
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Reinhard Von Lohengram



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 30
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:48 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I really don't think you're meant to actually piece together Dark History. It's really more of a representative element of the history of the franchise, and not a literal puzzle of the various continuities.


Oh yeah, I fully realize that. I just think its neat to do.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Reinhard Von Lohengram wrote:
A story explaining the end of the Black History era, i.e first use of Turn A, would be cool story to see, but I don't think Turn A was popular enough to do something with again. Maybe not, who knows.
Turn A not popular? Well of course not, at least not among the current Gundam fandom themselves and therefore, not for Bandai. But that's a lack of foresight on Bandai's part. Because Tomino directed Turn A with so much artistic merits, its quality had surpassed far beyond the superficial view of the general anime fandom, and the analytical view of the hardcore anime fandom alike. I'll even dare to say that Turn A could be what the franchise needed in order to break new grounds and introduce a whole new audiences the real message that the Gundam creator was trying to send with UC Gundam, but couldn't.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:37 pm Reply with quote
DomFortress wrote:
And what do you think it's gonna happen, when the distributor(Bandai) of a franchise(Gundam) became the owner of the creator(Sunrise) who produces the franchise's intellectual property(Gundam TV anime series) through corporate ownership and sponsorship? That's right, the distributor then owns the franchise by becoming one of the franchise's own corporate executives and sponsors.
Bandai are the parent company of Sunrise, but that does not mean that in acquiring Sunrise they acquired direct control and ownership of all Sunrise's trademarks and IP. The contract likely had Sunrise retain creative control and ownership of the Gundam trademark and TV shows (and other series IP that Sunrise hold, a requirement given that some may have been in partnership with other companies), with Bandai being granted exclusive rights to distribution and merchandising, and this is reflected in how the two have continued to operate. Yes, Bandai certainly have a hand in how Sunrise create series, but it is more Executive Meddling shifted up a rung than outright iron-fisted control, and other distributors for other studios have no less an effect on show viability. There is no sinister conspiracy on the part of Bandai in having Sunrise animate 00 as they have every other Gundam TV series, OVA, movie, or game CG.
Quote:
When Bandai made the executive decision on no more future anime project of Gundam for Sunrise by not sponsoring a new Gundam TV production in 2009. Sunrise can't do anything but to listen to Bandai. Get the picture yet?
Could you point to the source that states that the reason for the announcement that there would be no new TV series in 2009 was because Bandai deliberately withheld budget for it (a very serious allegation), and not simply because without leaving a year-or-so gap between Gundam franchised the market would saturate (as reflected in the previous spacing between series)?
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Reinhard Von Lohengram



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:06 pm Reply with quote
DomFortress wrote:
Reinhard Von Lohengram wrote:
A story explaining the end of the Black History era, i.e first use of Turn A, would be cool story to see, but I don't think Turn A was popular enough to do something with again. Maybe not, who knows.
Turn A not popular? Well of course not, at least not among the current Gundam fandom themselves and therefore, not for Bandai. But that's a lack of foresight on Bandai's part. Because Tomino directed Turn A with so much artistic merits, its quality had surpassed far beyond the superficial view of the general anime fandom, and the analytical view of the hardcore anime fandom alike. I'll even dare to say that Turn A could be what the franchise needed in order to break new grounds and introduce a whole new audiences the real message that the Gundam creator was trying to send with UC Gundam, but couldn't.


Yeah, I personally loved it myself. Its one of my favorite Gundams. Its so much more epic than most of the other installments, and the character designs are unique. I think it was the last series to have any real substance to it. As soon as I saw the first episode of Seed fansubbed, I was like "yeah, this is made for Cartoon Network" and sure enough, barely after it finished its run in Japan, it was on CN.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Reinhard Von Lohengram wrote:
DomFortress wrote:
Reinhard Von Lohengram wrote:
A story explaining the end of the Black History era, i.e first use of Turn A, would be cool story to see, but I don't think Turn A was popular enough to do something with again. Maybe not, who knows.
Turn A not popular? Well of course not, at least not among the current Gundam fandom themselves and therefore, not for Bandai. But that's a lack of foresight on Bandai's part. Because Tomino directed Turn A with so much artistic merits, its quality had surpassed far beyond the superficial view of the general anime fandom, and the analytical view of the hardcore anime fandom alike. I'll even dare to say that Turn A could be what the franchise needed in order to break new grounds and introduce a whole new audiences the real message that the Gundam creator was trying to send with UC Gundam, but couldn't.

Yeah, I personally loved it myself. Its one of my favorite Gundams. Its so much more epic than most of the other installments, and the character designs are unique. I think it was the last series to have any real substance to it. As soon as I saw the first episode of Seed fansubbed, I was like "yeah, this is made for Cartoon Network" and sure enough, barely after it finished its run in Japan, it was on CN.
No matter how I looked at it, Turn A has it all made for the Western market as a stand-alone masterpiece. My girlfriend being a Caucasian herself and with her Gundam fandom consisted of only Gundam Wing, was absolutely in love with Turn A. It's got the trademark and fluid anime style with a very mythical story on an epic proportion. Love able and "down-to-earth" main characters with interesting but not overly complex interactions. All tied together to send a very strong antiwar message that can only be done by the very much "mature" Tomino at his best.

I hope you're reading this, Bandai. Now hurry up and get Turn A back onto North American TV network. The 30th Gundam anniversary might just as well start outside of Japan with a 10th anniversary celebration of Turn A, if you guys don't intend to do much of anything on Japanese TV network for this year with Sunrise.
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edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:20 am Reply with quote
I'd love a proper localised release of Turn-A, but it looks fairly unlikely. Every time Bandai have been asked about their plans for it, they've stated that it's "not viable" to bring it over (along with Victory, ZZ and X). It's a pity really; it may not be the most well known series but it is one of the most well loved. It even got a published fanbook of Gundam designs aping Syd-Mead's style.
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Reinhard Von Lohengram



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:21 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I don't see them bringing it over anytime soon. I'm guessing they have to look at the bigger, more casual watcher who probably wouldn't get a great deal of the references. Also, they probably don't want to release a 50 episode series that doesn't have the "pretty boy" appeal that series like Wing, and its clones in recent years, have produced.

It was funny, when Char's Counterattack was released over here, they intentionally mistranslated a line Amuro said, mentioning events from Zeta, which hadn't been released stateside at the time (still hasn't, completely really, with the music issue and all) because they figured a majority of the audience wouldn't get the reference. I mean, you can hear him say "AEUG" and "Titans". I had a fansub first, and then got the DVD and was like "...wait a minute..."
So I'm guessing the general, or maybe new fan, factors heavily into their decisions, which makes sense I suppose.

Victory was my least favorite series, so I'm not too concerned getting a release over here of that. In all honesty, I never even finished it, I was so bored with it. I have the DVDs sitting around, I should finish it at some point.
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