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ANNCast - Brad Behavior


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Soundmonkey44



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 1243
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:55 pm Reply with quote
I enjoy watching a good AMV from time to time, there a fun way for fans to help advertise their favorite shows, as for a form of art, well the shows they are advertising can be art, same goes for the songs. But really i've never seen them as anything more then fans having fun. The fact that the conversation for this ANNCast has become so serious honestly baffles me.

Then again this is ANN. Laughing

I myself would love to make an AMV someday if I can ever figure out how to do so on my mac... after using PC's for years its a bit hard to adapt.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:13 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
[troll post removed]


Lay off it man. AMVs are still popular and good ones are still being made. You seem to think ridiculing them is funny but you're just being a Grinch who isn't happy that people are having fun.

My little brother made a Kingdom Hearts AMV, his first (and so far only) one ever. It sucked pretty badly. But if he enjoys doing it why shouldn't he continue making them? He's not harming anyone. He's learning out to edit video and splice audio and all that technical stuff, the sorts of things that are increasingly relevant in today's society. And he's expressing his fandom, same as any fan-fiction writer.

Who the heck are you to ridicule fans like him?

Zac wrote:
I'd have liked to do another show that is actually intended to be about the craft of making AMVs and the community behind it, but you'll have to forgive me for never wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole ever again. Not worth it.


It is sad to hear you say that as I would love to listen to that show. But I have to say, you did bring all this criticism upon yourself in the first place.
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KazuAMV



Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:34 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
[troll post removed]
Clearly nobody cares, or watches them....must be many adorable people out there.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for the interesting interview, but man, this is an extremely unsusual ANNcast discussion forum.

I thought I had an unfortunate tendency to go all Wall-of-Words on interviews that shed light on the economics of anime, but I have to concede that I don't hold a candle to the Wall of Words that dedicated members of the AMV community can put up when they get a wet sail and the strong northerly of an ANNcast interview of somebody who's been doing AMV's since the days of tapedecks to rile them up.

wSwans wrote:
Zac didn't bother doing any research on AMVs first. He continued to deride the medium without showing any evidence that he follows it. His opinion is intellectually (and creatively) bankrupt, and the interview suffers for it.

Its a podcast interview. Of Brad DeMoss. How many weeks of research was he supposed to do for an interview on a weekly podcast?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:35 pm Reply with quote
irriadin wrote:

See, that changes everything! The problem, I think, is the timing. It was only about a month ago that AMVs were brought up on ANNCast via a twitter question. To say the discussion was unfair to the medium (during the podcast in question) would be an understatement. Talking to Brad about Brad is totally different than doing a comprehensive overview of AMVs in general, which I thought this was attempting to do. So you can see how this reaction isn't entirely out of left field.


You could have defused the whole situation here just by saying this podcast was all about Brad in the first place :/


Why would I need to have said that more than I already did? His name's in the title. The header text says it is an interview with Brad DeMoss. Yes, we talk about anime music videos.

Here's what it does not say: "an in-depth discussion of the history and craft of anime music videos with today's most popular and visible anime music video directors". Nowhere does it say that. I don't know why you were expecting that, but it ain't my fault.

Quote:
Talking to Brad about Brad is totally different than doing a comprehensive overview of AMVs in general, which I thought this was attempting to do. So you can see how this reaction isn't entirely out of left field.


No, this is totally left field. Based on what you say here, I'm inclined to think you didn't actually listen to the podcast, either. I don't understand how you could possibly listen to that show and think that it was anything other than an interview with Brad about Brad. You thought it was something else - something literally nobody told you it would be - and then you listened to it, and it clearly was not that nor was it attempting to be that, and it's STILL my fault you're all worked up and pissed off? I'm baffled.
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Didarina



Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
No, this is totally left field. Based on what you say here, I'm inclined to think you didn't actually listen to the podcast, either. I don't understand how you could possibly listen to that show and think that it was anything other than an interview with Brad about Brad.


Irriadin didn't say that at all. I did. And while, you're right insofar as you did not literally say

Zac wrote:
an in-depth discussion of the history and craft of anime music videos with today's most popular and visible anime music video directors


You do in fact, in your own words, typewritten and verbal, address your guest and frame the conversation as

Quote:
founding father of the Anime Music Video scene [...] to chat about what it was like making music videos in times both modern and prehistoric


and proceed to grill him on the merits of AMV as art based on some stubborn preconception you have of what art is, instead of letting him lay it out for people. You don't talk that way to anime industry people, about the quality of their work, when you have them on the show?

He defended admirably and said a lot of great things, but you were a real dick to him and talked a bunch of smack about the hobby in those 55 minutes. You shouldn't be surprised that people are pissed.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Didarina wrote:
[
He defended admirably and said a lot of great things, but you were a real dick to him and talked a bunch of smack about the hobby in those 55 minutes. You shouldn't be surprised that people are pissed.


No, I wasn't a dick to him at all. He enjoyed the interview and told me he'd like to come on again sometime. Yes, I have some harsh questions about the hobby.

You are being too sensitive. I'm not going to apologize for my questions or my position on AMVs to you. I am sorry you didn't enjoy the episode - feel free to avoid the podcast in the future.

Also:

Quote:
founding father of the Anime Music Video scene [...] to chat about what it was like making music videos in times both modern and prehistoric


So all I'd have needed to do to avoid all this whining and crying would have been to add:

Quote:
founding father of the Anime Music Video scene [...] to chat about what it was like for him making music videos in times both modern and prehistoric


Otherwise you wouldn't have gone in expecting me to talk about the brilliance of your music videos for an hour?

EDIT: This is my last post on the matter. I would imagine the angry mob will get tired of this and move on to whatever the next perceived slight is soon enough.
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siny



Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:28 pm Reply with quote
It's actually funny that you called the editors who came here to discuss the podcast, as children. When, well, the child behavior it's clearly not from this side.

You keep saying this was about Brad, but you didn't conduct the interview that way and you were rude to an entire community (before, during and after).

I didn't see anyone being disrespectful to you, while you are being truly unprofessional.

I don't know about the others, but this:

Zac wrote:
I'd have liked to do another show that is actually intended to be about the craft of making AMVs and the community behind it, but you'll have to forgive me for never wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole ever again. Not worth it.


- doesn't make me sad at all. The way you respond to the comments here shows that you would never conduct that show about AMVs with an open mind and respect about it.

It's an hobby. AMVs exist because there are people who love to make them and others who love to watch. That's the only reason. If you and others can't see that, as the anime lovers we all are, it's your loss and not ours.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:47 pm Reply with quote
siny wrote:
It's actually funny that you called the editors who came here to discuss the podcast, as children. ...

Oh, come on, where did he do that?

Sure he described some behavior as childish, but that was a fair and reasonable description of the behavior.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:01 pm Reply with quote
[Content removed. Don't post in this thread if your intent is to simply troll the fans of something you are not personally a fan of and don't care for. - Keonyn]

Hey, are some people still making AMVs with subtitles in them?
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:14 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Hey, are some people still making AMVs with subtitles in them?


Sadly, yes.

Also, is there a reason you are being such an unmitigated asshole?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Hey, are some people still making AMVs with subtitles in them?


Sadly, yes.


I made a few that had the time stamp thing on them. You know, from the televised footage that sometimes has the clock in the corner? I guess I was just too impatient to wait for the DVD/Blu-Ray footage.

But the less said about my own AMVs, the better.
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ssgwnbtd



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:56 pm Reply with quote
Wait.. I thought the Brad everyone was talking about was AtomX. Haha, this makes a little bit more sense now. I only read small parts of every post.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:08 pm Reply with quote
willag wrote:
As a fan of AMVs, and one who has attempted a few herself (before her computer crashed in a most gloriously horrendous matter and erased a lot of work :/), they take A LOT of effort if you really want to have a good outcome. Timing, overlays, visuals, cleaning up pictures, etc, and I'm only a novice so I can only go into what I played around with.

I've tried to learn from more experienced members on video/audio theory in order to create the best output (it's quite possible that this is out of date since I haven't seriously looked at guides after my last attempt). I've hung around on the editing and technology board on the AMV forums. I've been watching AMVs since the early 2000s.

And after spending years and years of observing creativity in fandom (fanart, fanfiction, AMVs), it should come as no surprise that the ones most dedicated to their craft are the ones who provide the best output and know their stuff inside and out. And those are the ones who are trying to make a profession out of it.

Their creative fanworks become part of their portfolio. It's their opportunity to master the basics, stretch their boundaries, practice new techniques, and put to form what they visualize. Perhaps they just started out as fans who wanted to express their love of a series/couple by making some sort of creative output dedicated to that series/couple. Perhaps they are still fans just having fun. A majority of fanwork is just that, and it tends to be by people who are novices that don't even know the basics of the craft. And there's nothing wrong with that. They're taking their time to creatively share their love for what makes them passionate. But to those who are truly interested in the craft, they take the time and energy to really learn it and challenge themselves. And, also unsurprisingly, they are also the ones willing to spend money on their craft (by buying the actual software).

And the final outcomes can be amazing. For some examples:

Pencilhead - AMV.org Youtube - this is an extremely artistic video.
Fate Matrix - AMV.org Youtube - Concept: Little sister of fate manipulates the [multi]Threads of Fate.
Spoil - AMV.org Youtube - HO-LEE SHIT, the visual effects of this video. It's an older one, from 2007, but it's still one of the best visually immersive videos that still tries to tell a story (a mind game between Ryuuk and Light).

{... snip ...}

I've seen many of those before, like Spoil, which I consider a sort of classic now--the equivalent of Tron that raised the bar in the AMV world, lol.
But some I haven't seen like Pencilhead which is just... WOW Shocked

I'm also amazed at some of the simpler ones with few effects, though still well synced and edited, in just how much of a complete story with beginning, middle and end, and drama can be conveyed in just a couple minutes, without relying on lyrics either (instrumental music) like:
Break - AMV.org - Youtube (Evangelion 2.0)
To Reach A Dream - AMV.org - Youtube (Redline)
Nikko - AKROSS.ru - AMV.org - Youtube (Genius Party Beyond)

The AMV scene reminds me quite a bit of movies trailer business, which has become is an entire industry onto itself. Most movie companies in the US no longer produce trailers themselves and instead farm it out to others. e.g.
http://www.trailermusicnews.com/2012/08/trailer-talk-looper-k-i-l-l-s/
(Looper trailer, also awesome and the music too)

Though they don't transform the original as much as some AMVs do, it is still enough of an artistic endeavor and specialized skill to have an industry grow around it.

I think a lot of anime productions could do the same and hire some people who have worked on AMVs to produce their OPs and EDs. Though I notice more are becoming AMV-like already. Or they can involve the fans by creating AMV contests and maybe even feature them in some way. I recall Sony/Aniplex did that with Ergo Proxy a while back, where they officially contacted AMV.org, and the same was done for Xam'd
Quote:
Japanese electronic duo Boom Boom Satellites even teamed with site AMVJ Remix Sessions to sanction an AMV competition to help promote one of their singles, going so far as to provide the source material for editors to use. The winner's video would be featured during one of the pair's tours. The first of this competition took place in January 2008 using the song "Easy Action" and the anime movie Vexille.[11] A second competition took place later that year in November using the song "Shut Up And Explode" and the anime Xam'd: Lost Memories.[12]
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smashwagon



Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 50
Location: Dunedin, Florida
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:59 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

But some I haven't seen like Pencilhead which is just... WOW Shocked


I generally am one who has little use for AMVs either, but I watched a few due to this thread and this one is absolutely inspiring (I am literally picking up my pencils now.) The one labeled "paper heart" by the same editor is really amazing also. Thanks for sharing, Willag.
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