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REVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica the Movie Part 3: Rebellion


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SquadmemberRitsu



Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
You expected Homura to go.
Ok Madoka, I give up who cares.

I also find it really silly that she calls the movie 'unnecessary'. Do you expect Kyubey, well known for his underhanded scheming and manipulation, to just sit there and let things go by? This movie finally sealed his fate. That's important.

I think some people would really benefit from paying attention during the movie. I mean, I could explain it through long walls of text but I don't wanna. Why should I go out of my way to do that when the movie itself explains it a lot better than I ever could if you just give it a chance?

Also some people should stop letting their stupid 'feels' for the series ending get in the way of what is actually a fantastic, completely substantial and entirely necessary sequel that arguably outstrips even the series.
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ANN_Lynzee
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:58 pm Reply with quote
homara wrote:
Quote:
No one saw it coming because it's ludicrous and out-of-character, and there is little to no foreshadowing or support for the change..


Except it was foreshadowed in the scene where Homura tells Madoka of her sacrifice and Madoka responds that she would never want to have to do such a thing, leaving behind her family and loved ones. That scene set Homura off.


That was my interpretation, too. I felt like that scene put the whole ending into motion.
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Key
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:58 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
I have to say, I'm skeptical of the idea that you supposedly saw this coming. Razz

Oh, I wasn't at all saying that I saw that coming more than a few seconds before it happened. (I was suspicious at the point where Madoka came down to float over Homura, because somehow that scene reminded a lot of a key scene in the Marvel comic book series Secret Wars, where Dr. Doom snatches the Beyonder's power.) But it was definitely one of those "makes sense when you think about it" revelations for me.

Quote:
Fundamentally, I don't think Homura has really "turned evil." She talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, so to speak. Everything she does is kind of extreme, but doesn't seem especially bad or tragic for anyone but herself. She becomes a horrible Lovecraftian abomination, who commits the mindless evilness of...dragging all her friends into a magical girl paradise? How terrible! And when she physically becomes a witch, she only tries to kill herself. Then she becomes Demon-Homura, and cackling evilly, she...gives everyone happy, peaceful lives? It may not be exactly what they wanted, but it's a less band-aid-on-a-severed-leg solution than Madoka's.

Agreed.

Quote:
I think the idea that this is a deconstruction of the series is accurate. It sort of found a couple tiny cracks in the original ending, stuck its claws in there, ripped the whole thing open, and turned it inside-out. But as you said, the ending is a twist even more dramatic than Mami's death, and the show didn't end when Mami died, because that would have been stupid.

Agreed. I think this is a good way to describe what ultimately happened.

And oh, that last shot of Kyubey in the movie: if I ever decide to give up my current avatar, that shot would be the replacement. Twisted Evil
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kawaiibunny3



Joined: 10 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:06 pm Reply with quote
I actually liked the 1st arc of "hey, what if these girls were actually happy and ate cake at Mami's house after school and beating bad guys" and the long transformation scene was heaven for me. But I like all those lovable magical girl tropes, so I guess I can understand how it would get annoying. (maybe they were trying to out-do the Doki Doki Precure movie the theater over)

I pretty much agree with the rest of this review. I came out of the theater and drove a long way back to my house and someone asked me if I liked it when I got there and I responded "I....Guess I did, yeah"

But I think it's better to swallow when you think of the movies as a separate entity.

Hope, in your video review of the TV series you had said something to the effect that "PMMM is a traditional drama where the one good outcome doesn't look like it will happen, but does" (I apologize if I'm misquoting)
So the way I interpreted the movies as showcasing a tragedy (ie - the worst thing that happens, does)

I think if they were to make more (which they most likely will) they should stick to movies only. That way the TV series can keep it's dignity and the Movies can keep doing "what if" scenarios.

I wonder if these Movies are doing well for them compared to the typical "TV broadcast then Blu-ray" model that the original series went through
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:07 pm Reply with quote
SquadmemberRitsu wrote:
I also find it really silly that she calls the movie 'unnecessary'. Do you expect Kyubey, well known for his underhanded scheming and manipulation, to just sit there and let things go by? This movie finally sealed his fate. That's important.


Sealed his fate until the next movie that is.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:07 pm Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

I think the idea that this is a deconstruction of the series is accurate. It sort of found a couple tiny cracks in the original ending, stuck its claws in there, ripped the whole thing open, and turned it inside-out. But as you said, the ending is a twist even more dramatic than Mami's death, and the show didn't end when Mami died, because that would have been stupid.


I saw it more this way: they were going to make a sequel no matter what because doing otherwise would've left a gigantic pile of money on the table. Urobuchi himself has basically said this.

So they found the one thing in the ending that could reasonably be expanded on and went from there. It's like they painted themselves into a corner and found a way to keep painting anyway. Reasonably, there wasn't anywhere else for them to go with this story - they opted to continue the TV series rather than completely reboot it a'la Evangelion, so this was kinda the only way to go anyway. Homura is the only character in the series capable of carrying an entire new film's narrative on her shoulders, and the only way to keep going with that character was, uh, this.

Aside from a few folks, I don't think anyone's saying this movie "ruins" the original TV series or isn't entertaining or interesting or fun to watch. It's a largely positive review, too. Let's just keep some perspective here - anger is starting to well up and I'd rather not see this thread turn into a hatefest.

Quote:
She becomes a horrible Lovecraftian abomination, who commits the mindless evilness of...trapping all her friends in a false, forced magical girl paradise where they have no agency and are expected to behave a certain way, playing along with Homura's fake world? How terrible! And when she physically becomes a witch, she only tries to kill herself. Then she becomes Demon-Homura, and cackling evilly, she...gives everyone happy, peaceful lives that at least one of them knows is totally false and only plays along under threat, while Madoka, who retains some memory of what she's meant to be and the role she's supposed to be playing in the universe, is effectively now an unwilling prisoner of Homura's twisted, controlling love? It may not be exactly what they wanted, but it's a less band-aid-on-a-severed-leg solution than Madoka's.


This is more how I saw it and yeah it's evil.

octopodpie wrote:


She's also negated all evil beings from the world and some of the symbolism suggests she instead took them into herself instead. That was Homura's sacrifice, to shoulder the burden of evil in the world so Madoka wouldn't have to even though it would destroy any possibility of them being together.


Isn't she stuffing Kyubey full of curses to keep all that shit at bay? He gets to act as an unwilling container for all the enroaching evil/entropy in Homura World?

Also I wanted to mention that my favorite bit in the film was when Homura was explaining what she was gonna do and Kyubey is like "holy shit none of this makes sense you're all nuts PEACE OUT" and Homura's like "nnnnnnope!" Fun stuff.

Key wrote:

And oh, that last shot of Kyubey in the movie: if I ever decide to give up my current avatar, that shot would be the replacement. Twisted Evil


The one where's he's completely broken and afraid? I don't think your emoticon there sums up that shot too well.


Last edited by Zac on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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ANN_Lynzee
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Fundamentally, I don't think Homura has really "turned evil." She talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, so to speak. Everything she does is kind of extreme, but doesn't seem especially bad or tragic for anyone but herself. She becomes a horrible Lovecraftian abomination, who commits the mindless evilness of...dragging all her friends into a magical girl paradise? How terrible! And when she physically becomes a witch, she only tries to kill herself. Then she becomes Demon-Homura, and cackling evilly, she...gives everyone happy, peaceful lives? It may not be exactly what they wanted, but it's a less band-aid-on-a-severed-leg solution than Madoka's.


I don't personally think Homura is "evil" and I didn't interpret her motivations as selfish either. I think the key scene where Madoka, without her memories, confides that she wouldn't want to lose her family/friends put Homura's mind into motion. Until that point, she had accepted her stance as "worshiping" at Madoka's "altar." Now she wants to "liberate" her from her duties.

She decided, out of love for Madoka, that she would negate her sacrifice in what she believes is best for her: to be able to be a normal girl. Homura always thought that was what was best for Madoka and was her primary motivation in the television series. For that reason, I don't find her choice out of character at all. Whether her decision for "what is best" is accurate, is debatable.

One could also debate that Homura's love for Madoka is borderline abusive as she is using her powers to strip Madoka of her free will. The relationship is, obviously, unhealthy. That may be the most jarring part: their love for one another no longer resembles the cute and cuddly scene from the anthology movies.

She's also negated all evil beings from the world and some of the symbolism suggests she instead took them into herself instead. That was Homura's sacrifice, to shoulder the burden of evil in the world so Madoka wouldn't have to even though it would destroy any possibility of them being together.
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invalidname
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:18 pm Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
One could also debate that Homura's love for Madoka is borderline abusive as she is using her powers to strip Madoka of her free will. The relationship is, obviously, unhealthy. That may be the most jarring part: their love for one another no longer resembles the cute and cuddly scene from the anthology movies.

Lynzee had a really nice post with similar thoughts on her Tumblr.
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ANN_Lynzee
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:19 pm Reply with quote
invalidname wrote:

Lynzee had a really nice post with similar thoughts on her Tumblr.


Anime smile I am Lynzee, so that makes sense.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:26 pm Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:

She decided, out of love for Madoka, that she would negate her sacrifice in what she believes is best for her: to be able to be a normal girl. Homura always thought that was what was best for Madoka and was her primary motivation in the television series. For that reason, I don't find her choice out of character at all. Whether her decision for "what is best" is accurate, is debatable.


Well, except for at the end of the TV series she lets go of that, accepts and understands Madoka's choice and decides to live her life protecting that choice.

They had to find a way to walk all of that back in order to write any of this. Which is why people call it out-of-character.

I agree Homura's actions in the film are justified - not particularly elegantly - by the narrative, but they are basically rewriting her reaction to Madoka's wish, taking it all back and flipping it around.

Which comes across like a real desperate move, writing wise, when you're trying to continue from an ending as relatively airtight as Madoka Magica's was.
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ANN_Lynzee
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
octopodpie wrote:

She decided, out of love for Madoka, that she would negate her sacrifice in what she believes is best for her: to be able to be a normal girl. Homura always thought that was what was best for Madoka and was her primary motivation in the television series. For that reason, I don't find her choice out of character at all. Whether her decision for "what is best" is accurate, is debatable.


Well, except for at the end of the TV series she lets go of that, accepts and understands Madoka's choice and decides to live her life protecting that choice.

They had to find a way to walk all of that back in order to write any of this. Which is why people call it out-of-character.

I agree Homura's actions in the film are justified - not particularly elegantly - by the narrative, but they are basically rewriting her reaction to Madoka's wish, taking it all back and flipping it around.

Which comes across like a real desperate move, writing wise, when you're trying to continue from an ending as relatively airtight as Madoka Magica's was.


I didn't get that feeling at the end of the series, at least the "acceptance" part. It felt more like "well, what other choice do I have" and her character certainly seemed to hold some residual anger/disappointment about the whole thing. I should probably revisit the last episode to make sure my interpretation is still accurate since its been over a year since I saw the films and longer since the series.

Either way, it's something that could of been expounded upon in the beginning instead of attempting an "eerie" rehash of the series' beginning just to unsettle the audience. We spend 15+ minutes of screen time going "Uh, what are they doing, this isn't how the series ended? She's dead, and she's a god," etc. Would have been more effective, contextually, to show Homura's current feelings without Madoka.

Edit: It is frustrating as a viewer though. I know I desperately wanted Homura to grow as a character, while this ending seemed to instill that growth isn't as possible and people's flaws/obsessions are rarely alleviated. Which is more true to real life? The ending definitely takes the wind out of hope's wings.
Quote:
Isn't she stuffing Kyubey full of curses to keep all that shit at bay? He gets to act as an unwilling container for all the enroaching evil/entropy in Homura World?


I want to revisit the last 30 minutes of the movie just to rewatch the info dump part. I don't remember "getting" exactly why she said Kyubey had to stick around.

But yes, that scene was pretty funny.


Last edited by ANN_Lynzee on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:38 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Disappointed, but not shocked, that this franchise was going to be ruined by cash-milking it.

Ambivalent (or, actually, uncertain) as I am about the ending of the film, I don't think this is true. I'd say they're earning their cash honestly, and in a way that isn't "ruining the franchise".

As Zac says, they made a film that begs for a sequel, not a film where a sequel is gratuitous. It may have its flaws, but it continues to experiment with its genre in provocative ways.
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HitokiriShadow



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:44 pm Reply with quote
dm wrote:
angelmcazares wrote:
Disappointed, but not shocked, that this franchise was going to be ruined by cash-milking it.

Ambivalent (or, actually, uncertain) as I am about the ending of the film, I don't think this is true. I'd say they're earning their cash honestly, and in a way that isn't "ruining the franchise".


Sequel possibilities aside, the ending is just about the opposite of cash-grab. It was anything but safe, and they had to know it would be divisive.


Last edited by HitokiriShadow on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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MexicanAnime



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:44 pm Reply with quote
I think it's silly that people thinking that this movie ruins the TV series. Not as in that "How can people dislike this movie", but the fact that you can view the movie's ending and TV's ending as different entities. Even Shinbo (The director) feels they should.

As for the movie itself, I actually thought it was incredibly brilliant that had an ending that was better than the TV's (which I quite adore). I'm not going to touch on the music and animation for this piece as I feel much has been said about it and it's probably the thing people most agree on - It looks and sounds fantastic.

As for the first part of the movie, I thought it was pretty neat that the show felt more "magical girl-y" and had a different tone than the darker one of the TV series. This is due to the fact that it foreshadowed that not everything was right in this world and something was quite off. Since this is a continuation of the movies, the audience knows this to be truth and it makes the movie suspenseful in an odd way. One scene that came to mind was the "Cake" scene where it goes around through each character. In my mind, I kept thinking that something was going to happen to one of them, which was actually really enjoyable. I'll admit that the Magical Girl transformation was just pure fluff, but it's fluff that I quite enjoyed so I can't really complain.

This is also the reason I actually liked that the movie decided to use Charolotte, who's arguably the most popular witch from the TV series due to episode three. Some say that the use of her was "just pure fanservice", but I believe this goes back to what I said previously on taking the audience's perception what's right or wrong in the scenario being shown, which hints that she's going to play a big part and that the world they are in is twisted and unnatural.

Now let me say my word on Homura, who's arguably the main focus of this movie. Before I start, let me just say that while I thought Sayaka felt more "realistic" in the TV series, Homura had to be my favorite character in the TV series. While I understand why people feel mixed about Homura now, I'm going to say that the movie only made me like her more. While the Lucifer parallels are neat and all, what she did in the movie was built up pretty well and it did not feel out of character for me. Considering everything that she went through and the sole reason she became a magical girl in the movies/TV, the desire for her to want Madoka to not have the fate at the end of the TV series makes quite a bit of sense. While the whole "love" thing sounds a bit crazy on paper, the execution was brilliant as the conversations she had with Madoka within the movie all hinted towards this. In a crazy way, it also made her feel a bit more human for me as her love (something the incubators could not grasp) for Madoka was strong and she would do something that was selfless as she has her own desires and wants. Like someone mentioned in this thread earlier, I find it hard to believe that she would be completely OK that everyone except her forgot about Madoka in the TV series and that she would not be with her.

Like the TV series, a few things are vague at the ending, but it's pretty easy to say that Homura did not have her way completely. Even she understands this as Madoka has a scene where she almost remembers what happens, to where even Homura tells herself that Madoka will be her enemy one day, making the whole thing much more interesting and engaging for me.

To those who have not watched the movie, I'd recommend doing so and not just labeling this as a "cash crab". While I will not deny that Studio Shaft wanted to make quite a bit of money from this, I truly believe they also wanted to expand the franchise as I know that the staff quite loved the series and the characters in it. I find it a bit funny that many say "milking the series makes it terrible" when Shaft is responsible for the TV series in which many people call perfect. Uroubuchi originally had different plans for the TV series ending and it was changed due to the producer's and Shinbo's desire to work on the series more and the world he had created. I'm quite surprised myself that I actually prefer that they did that as the ending we have now for the TV series works better compared to the original ending planned (tl;dr - Madoka was going to take Homura with her and they would always be together).

While I don't really agree with JO, it's still a well written review and I can see why some people would feel that way.
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invalidname
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:48 pm Reply with quote
With all the interesting thoughts from the ANN editors/writers/columnists, this thread is starting to sound like one of Zac's Spoiler-casts.
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