Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Noragami Aragoto
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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Yeah, that's the point. Gods and their Regalias do take wrong decisions and her feelings are extremely involved in them. Kazuma could have let Bishamon die and be reborn, someone kills the big Phantom, everybody is happy, but Kazuma would literally never do that. He could have told her, but then Kazuma would be banished after hurting her the most and he doesn't want that. Bishamon should have concentrated in asking herself what she did wrong instead of blaming only Yato and making the same mistake, but it just was impossible for her to forgive revenge, and Kazuma couldn't stop her and make her unhappy again. And thus we got here, in a big chain of wrong decisions . |
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Knoepfchen
 Posts: 698 |
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I never thought this series wanted to establish gods as infallible beings. Just look at Yato and Bishamon, the way they desperately need other people, and both are not exactly known for making the best decisions.
Also, while I hate the constructed drama of people causing emotional disasters just because they refuse to talk to one another, I don't think that truly applies here. Bishamon should have realized that her old regalia family was corrupted beyond saving and that Yato's actions probably saved her. There's not really a lot to add here through talking. She cannot forgive him because she cannot forgive herself for letting things come to that. The fact that she lets it happen once again puts her in urgent need of changing her perspective, but if she admits she is, and always will be, incapable of saving them all, she also has to admit it was, basically, her own fault (or at least responsibility) that her old family perished. Fighting Yato is the much easier choice for her at this point. The only piece missing is the fact that her trusted Kazuma was the one enlisting Yato to do what he did. Yato telling her that wouldn't change the fact that she needs to blame Yato in order to avoid her own responsibility. Kazuma cannot tell her, not because he would probably sign his own death sentence, but because he knows it would break her (again, forcing her to face her own responsibilities in the impossible task she forced upon herself). What Bishamon does is not half as selfless as Kazuma makes it out to be. But that's exactly what's interesting here. |
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WashuTakahashi
 Posts: 415 Location: Chicago, IL |
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This episode was SOOO good, but now I'm in emotional distress waiting for next episode xD Yukinnneeee!!!
And I get that Bishamon was extremely loyal to her regalia and whatnot, but you'd like after hundreds of years she could step back and be like "Well, yeah, Yato actually saved my life", but I guess it's always easier to blame someone else for your own shortcomings. I still love Bishamon's character though. She's just so REAL. Strong, but weak. Loyal and someone to rely on, but kind to a fault. She has a lot of contradicting points that make her seem very real instead of 2D. |
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Via_01
 Posts: 551 |
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Yato doesn't say anything out of respect for Kazuma, probably. He knows that if he ever tells Bishamon about what truly happened in the past, Kazuma is going to be severely punished for his actions (you can't just hire an assassin to kill your whole family). Another reason I can think of is that Yato may feel guilty about what he did; that deep inside, he understands that he robbed Bishamon of her entire family, which will always seem like an unforgivable act in her eyes. There's also the fact that Bishamon would probably not even attempt to believe him if Yato tried to explain. She'd only believe someone close to her, like Kazuma. Which brings me to your other point. Kazuma did say "but he's also our savior", but such a cryptic line in such a heated moment wouldn't make much sense to Bishamon, who probably was only half concious when her regalias turned into that big phantom. Couple that with a hatred towards Yato that has lasted for centuries and that Kazuma didn't even have the time to explain anything... yeah, I don't see her just figuring things out. |
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HandofBobb
Posts: 81 |
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So, Spoiler Alert!
If, like me, you were previously unaware of the existence of the two OAVs released somewhere between the first and second season, be warned that the second OAV, mentioned in the initial review, quite clearly seems to take place after the current arc. |
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chito895
 Posts: 512 Location: Lima, Peru |
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Hearing Bishamon crying during almost a minute was the most heart-breaking thing I've experienced since I finished Your Lie in April. Wow, Noragami has exceeded my expectations when it comes to emotional parts. While I felt sad during the last episodes, nothing could break my heart as much as hearing the goddess cry.
I'm happy that we get some explanation as to why Kazuma turned into a badass gps command, and watching Yukine and Yato rekking Bishamon while in her rampage was amazing. Animation wise, this has been the best episode of Noragami Aragoto so far and the OST has been really great so far. Now I want to see Kugaha's butt kicked next episode. I hate that guy. |
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leesahlynn
Posts: 81 |
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Bawled through the last bit of this ep. First season was good but felt like an entire season of introduction compared to Aragoto. Can't wait to see how this arc wraps up.
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mandisaw
 Posts: 140 |
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Loving the new season, both the action sequences and the emotional rollercoaster aspects are such a rush. Hard to lurk quietly, but I wanted to pop in now that some of the initial speculation has been resolved.
Folks often seem to get stuck on that notion of the Noragami deities being "gods", associating the term with morals, rationality, maybe some omnipotence, and generally better-than-human attributes. But I think these gods are more in line with traditional notions of beings with colossal power, quasi-immortality, *loads* of feelings/passions/high spirits, and not much else. Each Noragami god pretty much comes up with their own sense of right & wrong, and it is an incredibly flexible, and fairly alien notion. Bishamon's is this nest of contradictions involving "saving" all the spirits she can, only to trap them in this isolating, cultish existence. Besides hiding/suppressing their emotions, each one yearns for Bishamon to call on them - to use their god-given name - like a child for its mother (or an adult for their lover), only to be neglected as another face in the crowd. Eaten by ayakashi (phantoms) is probably a crappy way to go, but at least it's quicker than centuries of waiting & suffering in silence. Several folks have explained very well why Bishamon wouldn't/couldn't accept her own responsibility & failure, despite clues/suspicions. For his part, Kazuma is a ball of abandonment anxiety, massive guilt, and unrequited love. He would probably throw his own grandmother to the wolves to stay by Bishamon/Viina's side - letting Yato shoulder the blame indefinitely was not that bitter a pill to swallow. ETA: Also, gods & shinki do seem to share thoughts/emotions at some level - I've always thought that Bishamon picked up on some of Kazuma's dread & guilt, and he her denial. Like a feedback loop of crazy. ---------- Totally looking forward to the start of the second-half (Ebisu!  spoiler[Father!!  ] ), although I don't quite know how they're going to segue. Much of what stitched it together in the manga has been edited out/done earlier. *Both* OAVs are out-of-sequence here :confused:
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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My point isn't that Bishamon, because she's a God, should have known better. My point is the world would be better off with another version of Bishamon, i.e. the crazy doctor is the good guy in this story (read good as meaning: the character whose action will have a positive effect on the world at large). Not only are her action dangerous, she fail to learn from them and is seemingly incapable of understanding simple stuff even when all the information is right in front of her. That'd be an okay behavior for some random human with an unimportant job, for a God that's ground for being permanently fired.
As for the episode, obviously the doctor just make a bunch of stupid non sensical mistake. That's how every evil schemer lose, they all suddenly get some brain aneurism that suddenly take them from super genius to babbling fool. It,s disappointing but expected. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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^ I dunno, there could be a lot worse versions of a god of war than the current Bishamon, like one that wanted humans to war on each other.
I don't think the villain turned stupid all of a sudden. He'd trusted Aiha (is that her name? ) as his partner in crime for a long time, and thought she was his. That was his only mistake. She wasn't as ruthless as she'd appeared to be. This was a great episode, aside from how they explained the Blessed Regalia bit. That was smoother in the manga. Here it was just awkward. But when Bishamon broke down at the end... *tears* Last edited by sunflower on Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Valhern
Posts: 916 |
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I too thought there were some directon mishaps, the whole Blessed Regalia explanation was too colorful and Bishamon conveniently stopped to explain it and have a flashback, a quick flash of Kazuma's face and her saying "Just like Kazuma...", later on Yato or Koufuku could've explained what a Blessed Regalia is. Also, at the end, when Yato looks at the camera and says "The one behind all of this" is too awkward because it seemed like the wind should have blown behind him, or staying like that a few seconds but the Ending broke all the tension.
Other than that, this episode was beautiful. And I really don't mind the big flaw in Kugaha's plan, technically he just has to nail (heh, get it?) the final hit on Bishamon and he should be done, plus there are still some little spoiler and twists to explain his actual motives, don't forget that Bishamon is NOT his master. |
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mandisaw
Posts: 140 |
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I agree that they could have saved the 'shinki evolution' explanation until afterwards, but I guess since it will be at least another episode until things calm down, they didn't want to leave viewers headscratching.
Doctor Kugaha is *unstable* - there's no reason to think that he's thought this plan all the way through, and weighed the risk that leaving Aiha alive poses. Also, she was basically dying - all that corruption is turning her into a phantom, just like Yukine was during/prior to his ablution. Being able to free Kazuma & Hiyori in spite of that is a testament to her will over the pain/suffering - she's supposed to be a badass in her own right. So Kugaha did a classic villain-monologue over the broken-not-dead-yet hero/dupe - not stupid, just clichéd. -------- As for Bishamon, the hierarchy and priorities of gods here is really quite different from what you've assumed, meiam. Unless it causes widespread destruction and/or impacts the Authority of Heaven, each of the gods has complete autonomy. And in the specific case of their shinki, they can basically treat (or mistreat) them however they wish. I like to call Bishamon a 'shinki hoarder', because that's basically her situation. Except there's no animal welfare agency or concerned relative to tell her to ease off on acquiring shinki. She's endangering them, and herself, but gods are allowed to obliterate themselves as they will - if they are necessary to the grand order, they will be reborn, if not, then not - and it doesn't bother anyone else in the least. She might be thought of as the deity equivalent of a crazy cat lady, but she's still doing her job, so folks just shrug and mind their own affairs. The next arc will do a better job of getting into just what constitutes a danger to Heaven worth intervening in. So I'd say stay tuned. |
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Mockturtle
 Posts: 4 |
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This is fair, however, it is pointed out later that all of the gods are flawed, that's why there are 8 million of them, so that they can make up for each other's flaws. No matter how much a god is reborn and changed, I don't think that it will permanently fix her flaws. Also, we'll see that there are many gods who are the opposite of her, or possibly what you want her to be, but they have various other flaws. Again, gods in Noragami aren't perfect. In fact, it's sort of implied that they're not supposed to be. Even if it didn't have that explaination, I still wouldn't mind, though. if Noragami was made up of a bunch of perfect gods I'd imagine I wouldn't like it as much as I do. But each to their own. |
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zztop
Posts: 646 |
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For the next arc, I'd strongly suggest reading up on the Shinto creation myth of Izanagi and Izanami. It provides important background for some characters there.
Also, watch OVA 2 after this episode. It provides a more conclusive and humourous finale to the Bishamon arc, where Yato and Bishamon make a sort-of peace with each other. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Very good and thorough review. I couldn't think of anything to add but this comment. At the end I actually sympathized with Kugaha. He actually became more understandable as the story wound on. The situation in Bishamon's house was untenable and unsustainable and he wasn't the one that made it that way. In all other respects his story ends up being very similar to one of the fallen angels in Paradise Lost. He is cast out but not ended -- suffering the ultimate punishment and taking all the sins with him so that those left behind could live in an exalted state. Bishamon and Kazuma and the rest will be happy now because of him but he won't share any of it. I am looking forward to the new arc -- it looks to be a lot less stressful. At least at first. |
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She literally chose the worse possible outcome.
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