Forum - View topicREVIEW: Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1114 Location: Puget Sound |
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That he mentioned it isn't the problem. Nor is it about a certain percentage or threshold - it's about the false impression created when something so minor is labeled by the reviewer as an "issue". It should be pretty obvious that a feature mentioned prominently in a review, especially when it's specifically mention as an "issue", should actually be something big enough to be an issue. Especially when he uses a loaded word like "lingering", which is precisely what the show didn't do. |
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Usagi-kun
 Posts: 877 Location: Nashville, TN |
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I need to check this one out. I gave it a pass upon hearing the initial premise, simply as "yet another" despite seeing some dark rumblings around its initial airing. It seems there is actually a little meat here for me to sink into. I'll move it closer to the top of the list. And Nick, I do not always agree with your points, but the language you use to express them is excellent. Thanks for the review!
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Brian_FTP
 Posts: 88 |
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Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash left me feeling cheated of any explanation of the world that these characters are in. How can you go an entire season without delving into that?
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2247 |
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Huh? But he specifically mentions that it makes it harder for him to take the characters seriously. In a show like this, which lives and dies by its characters, that's a pretty big issue, even if you don't see the fanservice shots the same way. Seems to me like you found it to be "minor", and Nick didn't, though even then it's not listed as a "negative", so it seems more along the lines of annoying/bothersome than actually worth docking points for. I also had some of the same issues both he and Rebecca ran into (the show shooting itself in the foot tonally), but hey, agree to disagree and all that jazz. EDIT: Also, no offense, but I think you're the first person I've come across who's taken "lingering" to be a loaded word. o.O Personally, any shot that takes longer than half a second to showcase a particularly boob- or butt-tastic angle is "lingering" to me, since there's no reason to showcase those areas beyond titillation, usually, but you'd have to go for a good second or longer to make me start feeling skeevy. Maybe the word you're looking for is "leering"? |
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GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
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No, Grimgar definitely isn't part of the "trapped in a game world genre". The characters aren't trapped in any game that we know of. There's essentially no difference between the character waking up in the world they are in, or waking up in the world of "Record of Lodoss War", or "Slayers", or "Is it Wrong to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?" That's part of the point that #854688 was trying to make. In SAO and .hack, the characters are literally playing Sword Art Online, and The World, respectively. People are trapped within the game, unable to log out as their real body sits around in the real world like a coma patient, while people who aren't trapped in the game attempt to free those who are. They're in a reality ruled by computer code. Some characters are actually Artificial Intelligences. Grimgar and Konosuba aren't games. The worlds they are set in are realities unto themselves. There are no real bodies sitting comatose in the real world, no computer code, no artificial intelligences. The characters just magically appeared in a fantasy world. That the rules of the world are similar to game mechanics is of little consequence, they're still their own fantasy worlds. Return isn't a matter of logging out, but a matter of finding magic transport back(if so inclined). The stories at their core are little different than Zero no Tsukaima, the authors of Grimgar and Konosuba just happened to make the rules of their world a bit more videogame like than Zero no Tsukaima's author did. That's some of the big differences. Just because they're in a world that has a few videogame like elements doesn't mean that it's the "trapped in a videogame world" genre. |
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bleachj0j
 Posts: 923 |
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I think it was because the show wasn't really about that right now. It was more about characters living in the world they are now than what it was. |
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GeneStriker
Posts: 156 |
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The fact we can even have a 'trapped in a game' genre vs. 'transfer' genre discussion is fascinating in and of itself.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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Fascinating is not quite the word I'd use myself. |
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Clarste
Posts: 428 |
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The fact that people care about the difference enough to complain about its misuse is fascinating. The discussion itself is pedantic.
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Amuris
Posts: 69 |
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It's relevant when you consider things like reviews complaining about seeing too many shows of a genre only to mostly list shows that aren't part of that genre.
It may seem like I'm focusing on a small detail, but it's the reverse. The details that make them look similar are minor. The important details are their difference. It's like the gap between mystery and thriller. A lot of people were disappointed with Erased for the killer being so straight forward and obvious. The story is written to be more of a thriller than a mystery though. The enjoyment of a mystery story is in trying to solve the case and catch the killer yourself as the story progresses. It needs to be more slow an methodical. A thriller's enjoyment comes from the anxiety and suspense from trying to escape the killer. Some people look at them and think it's the same due to the superfluous details but if you do more with thriller, the mystery aspect gets weaker and vice versa. Basically, you have to clearly know the genre to know what to expect and look for. Otherwise, everything looks worse than it actually is. |
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Clarste
Posts: 428 |
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The distinction aren't really that important though. Both are just excuses to have fantasy settings with RPG-like rules, and both can focus on characters trying to escape. IE: getting back to the real world can be a plot point in both SAO and Log Horizon, despite the different way the world is presented. While there are certainly minor differences like in how NPCs are presented, I certainly wouldn't say they're different kinds of stories at all. To say they are just seems nitpicky.
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Amuris
Posts: 69 |
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But how they deal with those npc's was a major plot point of Log Horizon. You can't really call that minor. Also, as I said before, there's a lot of differences with how the characters develop and can interact with the world.
Putting up a fantasy setting or rpg-esque features is actually a minor detail. That's the equivalent of having a killer in the story for the mystery vs thriller example. It doesn't touch on how your suppose to interpret what's happening. Look at Overlord, for example. If you look at it as a trapped in a game world story, the meaning of Ains loosing his ability to feel empathy for humans and to be fine with eating them is completely different. Most people I've seen who assumed Grimgar was a trapped in a game world story were very confused about most of the details about the story. They didn't understand why they had to show or explain so much about the goblin's lives or why Haru and Ranta got into an argument about whether they should start killing and robbing the worker Kobolds in their sleep. They thought they were just mobs and that they would respawn or something, not realizing that the goblins, kobolds, and orcs are just other races in grimgar with their own societies. I actually saw one of my friends chanting "E. X. P! E. X. P!" as Ranta was stabbing the goblin at the beginning, then wondering why the characters were taking it so seriously. Discussions about being comfortable with killing or the lives of what you kill come off as dumb in "trapped in a game world" stories. They detract from it and if you see it in a story you thought was a "trapped in a game world" most would think it was pointless. In a transfer story, however, it is a good discussion to have and the stance they take in that discussion says volumes about the characters. |
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