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GVman wrote:

JDude042 wrote:

About once every month I have to take the hair clippers and trim down my back, chest, stomach, and all that.

Good Lord, man, why don't you just let it be?

Simple. It just feels way more comfortable once it's trimmed down. The same way I feel after getting a hair cut, where if I let it get too thick, it feels like I'm wearing a mop on my head. After a while, my body hair just looks really thick and messy, on top of the fact that I'll notice a few stray white hairs on my body, along with all that black hair.

Juno016 wrote:

And yes, I am quite feminine, and having found out I may have Klinefelter Syndrome, I'm not really fazed my it.

I'd say I'm probably more on the feminine side personality wise. I definitely take after my mom way more than my dad, which is funny because my sister definitely takes after my dad way more than my mom. I like cooking and cleaning (I'm a huge neat freak about everything, even my bedroom) way more than the typical male might, and I'm not really into cars/motorcycles or anything automotive like that.

Top Gun wrote:

Then again I'm not in a relationship and don't really have any immediate prospects for one, so the only person I really want to impress is me.

I'm not gonna lie that growing up I was always pretty socially awkward until maybe about 5 years ago, but you might be shocked to find out that I've only really been in what you could consider 1 relationship in my whole life, and I'm in my early 30s. On top of that, I only was dating the girl for a few months before I decided that this wasn't working out for me.

Short story short, she was a customer at my work. She was very shy, way more than me, and while far from being really attractive, there was just something that interested me I guess. Maybe it was her somewhat large/bulky build and the fact that she was a little taller than me. I asked her out, got her number, set up a lunch date on the weekend and met, talked a bit, hugged and kissed and that ended a fairly good date. Went on a few more dates before I invited her over my house for a bit one evening, since we were both kinda tired and didn't really feel like doing anything. I didn't wanna go full on and have sex at the moment, but felt like getting a little intimate. Sadly she definitely wasn't nearly as comfortable as I am with it and the most I got from it was some heavy kissing on the lips and the neck. I wanted to do some french kissing, but she was acting pretty freaked out about it, so I didn't. There was even one time where I was kissing her and slowly went down and cupped her butt with my right hand and she kinda jumped and let out a cute squeal.

Might have went on one more date after that, before I asked about wanting to see her apartment where she lives. I think the first time I asked she said she would invite me over when it's comfortable for her. So a few more weeks go by without her saying anything about it, so I go ahead and just ask again without sounding demanding. She kinda freaked out and said, "I'll invite you over when I'm ready, you don't need to keep asking me." Even though that same night before we went our separate ways there was some heavy kissing and I was pretty turned on, I was extremely put off by the fact that she seemed so uncomfortable about showing me her apartment. Maybe it's because she lives there by herself, or maybe she got the impression that I just wanted to get over there and have my way with her that she seemed so put off about it, or maybe her apartment was a huge mess and she hasn't had the time to clean it.

Sadly and I wish I hadn't, instead of talking to her about it, I chickened out and just stopped talking to her and returning her texts/calls. I felt like by then that my interest level was starting to wane, and I was overall kinda off put by the fact that her enjoyment for intimacy and sexual drive didn't match mine, on top of the fact that I kinda felt like I could do better than her now that I had finally been with a woman. Looking back, I'm not sure why I went this route because I hate it when women blow me off without saying anything, instead of just being nice about it and saying they're not interested in me that way.

Apparently she had came up to my mom's work and started asking her about me and what was going on, and was upset about that I had blew her off. And sadly here we are two years later and despite my efforts to be on the look out for women that catch my eye, I'm still stuck being single and without the intimacy of another woman in my life. Not that I haven't met or know some women that I'm head over heels in love with, but sadly they're already happily married/in a relationship, or just don't play ball whenever I ask them out.

Not sure why I went into such detail, but I guess sometimes I just feel like it. It's not that I'm unhappy so much being single, as I am feeling like I deserve to have someone in my life that I'm super crazy about that I can be intimate with. I feel like it's more so my situation and the small town area I live in that's contributing to the lack of good women that I connect with on a regular basis. While I'm far from being the most outgoing alpha male in the world, I feel like I'd be dating a lot more often if there were more women in my vicinity that caught my interest. Then again, I have noticed a pattern that some people just are "that busy" and don't really seem to be into or care about dating. Trust me when I say that if I meet a woman who sparks my interest and I feel a connection with, I've got no problem being confident, holding a conversation, and giving out hugs.

There's one woman who comes into my work that I'm head over heels for, she's a few years older than me, been married for 10+ years & with 3 kids, but we both always talk to each other and give each other big hugs, with both arms and heads touching, like hugging a teddy bear. There was even one day where I was kinda flirting with her and emphasizing the fact that I was growing in a beard and by the end of our conversation when we hugged, I guess I was feeling kinda manly by that point and went ahead and kissed her on the cheek. She definitely didn't mind, considering she never brings her husband to the store with her anyways, but I was feeling on top of the world after that, though admittedly about as crazy as a schoolgirl ogling over her crush.

One theory from Asian Art History is that it begins with Japanese aesthetic concepts of beauty that go back to Buddhist artwork of the Bodhisattvas brought in during the ancient periods. The forms were very feminine, lean and lithe as seen in the "hip-shot" poses.

Any muscular forms such as those seen on guardian deities such as the Lokapala or Shitenoh were seen as fearsome characteristics.

Thank you for sharing your story, JDude042. By all accounts you seem comfortable with who you are, and as pertains to matters of romance you have encountered more progress than many. Of course, some of us prefer to declare ourselves non-combatants in the battlefield of interpersonal entrappings, so to speak.

GVman wrote:

I'm sure it's the same for women. I doubt many of them have been told up-front that whatever wispy dabs of hair she has on her body are repugnant by man. I'm sure it was another woman.

Why would you assume that a woman's experience would be the same as a man's, or even an different person's experience is the same as your own?

I can speak from personal experience that one of the worst offenders of body shaming in school I ever had was male. A lot of women constantly experience body shaming and street harassment from complete strangers, usually men. If they noticed you had body hair, I'm sure they'd make comments about that too. But usually they're paying attention to other areas. =P

AnimeLordLuis wrote:

Geez what ever happened to "It's not what's on the outside side that counts it's what's on the inside that truly matters" did that saying die in the 90s or what. Rolling Eyes

My thoughts exactly. Fantasizing your own ideal version of the opposite gender us fine and all, but at the end of the day, what truly matters in real life is who a person really is at heart. For one, I never really find many K-pop idols or such that appealing to me, nor did I ever care about them, especially since I've never bonded with them.

And on one note, doesn't the take that "growing waist == health problems" seem a little too extreme, as some people are born to be plump and not everyone can be such skinny people.

@Animechic
Guess you've forgotten My Love Story, which features Mr. Muscular as the male lead.

I am reminded of my teen years in the 70s, when the covers of Tiger Beat magazine were graced with the likes of Peter Frampton, Leif Garrett, Shaun Cassidy, the guys in Cheap Trick and going back further, Davy Jones and that type. Young girls simply like that aesthetic. Hell, Prince was the epitome of that look.

As I got older, I prefer more adult looking men but still enjoy the clean cut slim but muscular aesthetic a la Hiddleston. My idea of a hot manga guy tends toward the tall dark handsome and nicely cut seme in BL or hero in throwback shoujo. Hak in Yona is a good example of the type in current manga. But you know, none of that matters of he isn't smart and a bit of charming. Very Happy

residentgrigo wrote:

To see how the other side of the world ticks: http://comicsalliance.com/comics-sexiest-male-characters/
So many bad boys and a few manga guys. Poor Batman, too many adopted children i guess.

It's an interesting list, but I can't understand why Peter Parker isn't on it. He's a classic teen fantasy superhero...

One of the (many, many) factors that go into what people find attractive in other people is what they're used to based on who they grew up around. If you had family members with facial hair (like a dad with a beard), you might find facial hair more attractive, or at the very least less of a turn off.

It's interesting to read guys' thoughts on grooming in general, and body hair in particular. I can tell you that as a woman, I absolutely hate body hair, and I hate that I hate body hair, because it is so damn expensive and painful to remove on a regular basis. Everytime I go for a waxing I can't help but wonder why I am paying someone to torture me. Damn internalized societal beauty standards!

whiskeyii wrote:

Eh, generally I find women are more attracted to "confidence" rather than success, social standing, and/or "alpha male"-ness. Scratch that, I think folks of all genders tend to be attracted to confidence. But I think that's what you're cottoning on to when you're equating "strength" to "attractiveness". And since socially awkward folks tend to not be as confident in social settings, that's why they tend to get labeled as "unattractive".

At least around here in southern California, I see a lot of guys fall head over heels for the ditz/bimbo, whose defining characteristics are that she's needy and dumb. The appeal behind that is that she's submissive and loves receiving attention from the man. So I think in this case, it's the total opposite: The men want to find a woman who wants to rely upon them and be dependent on them (though that isn't necessarily the same thing as confidence).

lostrune wrote:

I live here in the sunny California and having a buff bod is definitely an attractive thing to have with women. I see tons of guys at the gym and beach bulking up on protein powder stuff. Might be a regional thing. Course we're also anime fans so of it's not that surprising if anime fan women have tastes more in line with Japanese women. Among the mainstream though, having a nice six-pack is the more attractive thing. Facial hair too, though in my experience some women hate it. But if we're looking at strictly a generalized opinion, ripped men win out in market tests towards women more often than not.

That's definitely a phenomenon I see around here too. But, as was mentioned by whiskeyii, it's probably a matter of confidence. Those ripped guys you see in places like Venice Beach are people who are showing off their bodies to the world because they're so proud of them. They exude confidence.

That being said, I think California has a bunch of other factors too. One is that California, as a state, has a prominent gay culture, and perhaps some of these guys want to go for the beefcake look to differentiate (not distance) themselves to indicate that they are straight. California also has a strong Latin American influence, where the machismo ideal originated. There's also the presence of Hollywood, where muscular men are abundant. And finally, there's an oddly high concentration of women who fit the ditz and bimbo personalities as I mentioned above (or who merely act that way to get attention from men), who are looking for men to tend to their every desire, and beefy men are more imposing and thus more likely to be able to provide for them.

MarshalBanana wrote:

Didn't the 80s music scene have a big influence on this guys looking like girls thing.

If anything, I think the 80's caused the muscular bodybuilder type to become more popular with the rise of Hollywood actors like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, and to a lesser extent Tom Cruise.

It's the reason why the first three parts of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure are packed to the brim with barrel-chested, totally ripped men: Hirohiko Araki, the author, became a fan of these actors and wanted to draw every man like them.

In terms of mos popular manliest lead anime characters (as in the tall and beefy type), I think Hokuto no Ken's Kenshiro and Berserk's Guts are definite candidates. As mighty as Goku is, he is not tall and muscular.

meruru wrote:

GVman wrote:

I'm sure it's the same for women. I doubt many of them have been told up-front that whatever wispy dabs of hair she has on her body are repugnant by man. I'm sure it was another woman.

Why would you assume that a woman's experience would be the same as a man's, or even an different person's experience is the same as your own?

I can speak from personal experience that one of the worst offenders of body shaming in school I ever had was male. A lot of women constantly experience body shaming and street harassment from complete strangers, usually men. If they noticed you had body hair, I'm sure they'd make comments about that too. But usually they're paying attention to other areas. =P

I don't think it's too farfetched to assume that, of the billions of women on this planet, there are several who've experienced something akin to what I have.

Nice article, but it could have mentioned that, traditionally, the pretty adolescent youth who visually is almost indistinguishable from a beautiful woman was the ideal of masculine beauty in Japanese culture for hundreds of years. (Bishounen types weren't exactly unknown in the West, either.)

LightYapper wrote:

Guess you've forgotten My Love Story, which features Mr. Muscular as the male lead.

Yes, but the entire premise of the story is that most women find him unattractive and scary-looking; only Rinko and a handful of other characters are willing to look past his beefy exterior to the teddy bear within.

A love of pretty boys certainly isn't some Japan only thing.

Chagen46 wrote:

I've noticed that most guys into fujoshi/otome stuff tend to be bisexual, not gay. Gay men tend to prefer Bara. Us bi men appear to have tastes more in line with straight women when it comes to men.

Thank you for the info! I learned something new today.

I agree with other women that said "hyper-muscular" dude is more like male power fantasy. I'm Chinese descent myself. I've been in many country at Southeast Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore). Many Asian women prefer "fit" men that is not too muscular like body builder. Sure they don't mind muscular men like Steve Roger eeh... I mean Chris Evans. But too much muscle like male bodybuilder? They think it's scary or "unnatural". Sorry Embarassed

I’ve never thought about the working life and compensation of male models, or models in general, but I’m not shocked to find that it seems to be something of a racket.

Discussions like this always make me so glad that I don’t live in Southern California.

I think that ideas of what is attractive sometimes misfire and become about intragender competition rather than the opposite gender. I’ve observed, which means that this could just be my faulty perspective, that some women are fixated upon being thin to the point of emaciation beyond what men general prefer. Some men likewise exhibit an exaggerated fixation on muscle size. It seems to hold for certain aesthetic qualities; I have a not inconsiderable beard, which more men than women have complimented. (Given that I’m perceptibly balding, it and my eyebrows might some day be all that I have left, so I’m keeping it!)

Very strong, rather ‘motivated’, presumptions that are ill-founded doubtless abound among the population. I wonder if there is any good data on these questions. I imagine that it would be tricky to design a survey or experiment to produce convincing findings. One thing that I suspect might confound the whole subject is how variable tastes might be. It might be the case that men and women differ in how much and widely preferences vary among them. A person might have tastes that vary, liking different features at different times or in different situations and finding that preferences change over time. These differences could include an at least partly distinct set of preferences for fictional portrayals or fantasies. It’s a little laughable, yet also uncomfortable, for me to have a ‘taste in women’, but to the extent that I suffer myself to, while does seem to have a defined range, it isn’t fixed or absolutely consistent.

I’m built like hill dwarf and not an especially good-looking one. (We can’t all be pretty boys like Thorin Oakenshield) However, I’m not terribly prone to or interested ‘masculine’ behavior, however; in fact much of it strikes me as stupid, destructive or dangerous. To my recollection, the only time that I can reliably cite anybody ever showing sexual interest in me was when I was working as a census enumerator and, pursuant to my work, began a conversation with a slightly burly middle-aged man sitting shirtless on his lawn playing with a dog who ended up asking me if I knew what a bear was. It was a confusing, awkward conversation which I politely withdrew from very shortly after he offered me a foot rub. Of course, although I maintain that it has probably never happened, I would likely fail to notice of discount as mistaken something even remotely less subtle than that.

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