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NEWS: Re:Zero's Western Blu-rays Show Color Banding Artifacts, Companies Respond


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Nico_Astray



Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:40 pm Reply with quote
I'm not from the UK, nor US so even if there is a big problem, I wouldn't get replacements.
But we're talking about single frames where the problems are apparent. It's a pity that Funimation acts like nothing happened, but I can live with it.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6871
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:16 pm Reply with quote
LegitPancake wrote:
As someone who bought this set, although I have not tried it out as it was just delivered today, I am disappointed, and hope replacement discs can be procured. When I buy anime, I expect the exact same quality customers get in Japan. We should not have to settle for sub-par, especially if Crunchyroll's stream is higher quality than the bluray.
I agree that the artifacts in this release make it subpar even by Western standards, and were likely avoidable with better encoding... assuming this wasn't a total anti-reverse-importation sabotage operation. Hopefully replacements get made available at some point. But do we really have the right to expect the same quality Japanese customers get, when we're paying so much less? When we're paying 20% of the JP prices, even getting something half as good means we come out ahead.

Although the crowd on Reddit claiming "this is why people pirate" are off-base; statistically, most viewers who pirated this or any modern/airing show either watched lower-quality re-encodes of legal streams or 1:1 direct rips of legal streams, and did so during the JP broadcast. Blu-Ray rips get minuscule numbers in comparison, since everyone's moved on to the current season by the time they come out.

Robbl wrote:
Yazu13 wrote:
Artifacts in a blu-ray release? Really? Did they record someone's dial-up stream and burn it to a blu-ray disc or something? That's unacceptable.

Welcome to western anime bluray releases where publishers like Funi or Sentai don't care about image quality. Despite Aniplex prices, at least they do a good job with encoding.
Well, no release is perfect; there's always going to be some artifacts when going from the original/uncompressed studio masters to Blu-Ray, even on JP releases. They're just not usually as striking or noticeable as the ones we see with Funi/AL's Re:Zero.

I do have to agree on Aniplex, though. I recently rewatched the 2nd season of Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya via the Bandai DVDs, and they had fair amounts of banding and compression artifacts. (Kadokawa strikes/struck again??) And unlike many US releases, particularly "1 cour in 1 set" formats, MoHS '09 was spread out on 4 discs with 3-4 eps per disc, instead of on 2 with 6-7 eps. But then I started rewatching Madoka Magica on Aniplex's DVDs (also 4 eps/disc), and they are clean, detailed, and free of major artifacts noticeable under normal viewing conditions. At least on my setup, anyway.
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RANGIT



Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:15 pm Reply with quote
professorwho wrote:
First, the FUNimation Now stream doesn't have the massive issues of the Blu-ray.

It totally does. I compared the first two episodes just last night and it was still encoded from the same source (either from their own BD, a more likely scenario or the masters they were given.)

Did you perhaps compare a different episode?

professorwho wrote:
the audio being LPCM (the best) Stereo at 2304 kbps 24-Bit.

LPCM, DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are all the best. As long as they have the same bit depth, channels and sample rate then they should be still the same exact lossless audio when decompressed. I'd argue that both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are better if only because they save space due to lossless compression, thus allowing one to make better use of the extra space for maximizing video bit rate (if capacity is an issue) instead of being wasted by LPCM's uncompressed format. LPCM however, is the safest lossless format to use as it probably has the most widespread player support for a lossless format, it's just not the most efficient.

Anyway, I get why you said it. I just thought I'd explain why you wrote it. Laughing
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:48 pm Reply with quote
Apparently there are reports (also from Professorwho) that these discs lack the Next Episode Previews. I know many care don't care about them, on the grounds of "Show's already finished, you can watch the next ep without waiting a week, you don't need the previews if you've already seen the whole series." But I agree with Professorwho's sentiment; you can easily skip them if they're present, but you can't choose to watch them if they're not there. I for one choose to watch them >99% of the time, whether the show's complete or not, and regardless of whether or not I've seen it before. Maybe the licensor didn't want them on the overseas versions of Re:Zero?
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RANGIT



Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:26 pm Reply with quote
Man, so that explains it. I actually thought Re:ZERO didn't have them in the first place. I frequently rely on episode previews as it helps me find out if the episode is truly over because sometimes there are epilogues. With Re:ZERO I wasn't sure, I actually accidentally started an episode because of the lack of it. Laughing
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G S Palmer



Joined: 02 Oct 2015
Posts: 246
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:32 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Apparently there are reports (also from Professorwho) that these discs lack the Next Episode Previews. I know many care don't care about them, on the grounds of "Show's already finished, you can watch the next ep without waiting a week, you don't need the previews if you've already seen the whole series." But I agree with Professorwho's sentiment; you can easily skip them if they're present, but you can't choose to watch them if they're not there. I for one choose to watch them >99% of the time, whether the show's complete or not, and regardless of whether or not I've seen it before. Maybe the licensor didn't want them on the overseas versions of Re:Zero?

Didn't one of the previews have Emilia doing an impression of Megumin from KonoSuba? (They were both played by the same actress.) If that's not in the release, I'm very disappointing. It pisses me off that they would alter the show, even if it's only a small bit that most people wouldn't even notice. It's the same irritating mentality that Netflix has where they automatically skip the ending theme/credits.
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MrBonk



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:25 am Reply with quote
ragnawind wrote:
For those who want to see what it looks like, someone posted all about it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/8s595f/psa_rezero_bluray_us_and_uk_has_serious_video/

Based on the pictures in there, though, it definitely does not seem like it is bad enough of an issue to be marked as defective. There might be a lot of quality issues, but unless you are actually looking for them, you likely wouldn't even notice or if you are using a 60+ inch TV screen from an inadequate distance.


When you know the difference, it's super easy to spot in video. I have several calibrated displays, and that makes this stuff easier to pick out. And things like banding in anime BDs are easy to pick out on any of them. Dark scenes are notorious for this. (Which is usually the only area where it crops up heavily in my limited viewings of Funimation BDs)

Sometimes I wonder if the LIcensors send them this stuff purposefully to sabotage the quality just enough for the hardcore fans to only notice. To deter reverse importation, because those are the kinds of fans who would resort to such a thing, and who would also notice the difference.

With 50GB available for storage on a BD. This shouldn't happen, there are so many things that can be done to mitigate this stuff for video. When you pay for a BD, you are supposed to be paying for the quality Streaming can't deliver.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/114423
http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=114287
And when it's basically as bad as an awful CR encode, then you have issues.
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 766
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:00 am Reply with quote
The CR screenshot actually looks a little better.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2173
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Did the Japanese release have this as well? Curious to see if it's production of the show related issue or a the licensees messed up issue.

Quote:
He noted that, while the problem is "disappointing," it does not fit "the common vernacular definition of defective" in order for Anime Limited to replace the discs.

Nice. Boils down to yes: "yeah it's screwed and we may have messed up, but we think it's in our best interest if you take the L on this rather than us."
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professorwho



Joined: 11 Aug 2017
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:23 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
Did the Japanese release have this as well? Curious to see if it's production of the show related issue or a the licensees messed up issue.


It's a FUNimation fail, the Japanese Blu-ray was flawless. No banding.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 2261
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:04 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
I agree that the artifacts in this release make it subpar even by Western standards, and were likely avoidable with better encoding... assuming this wasn't a total anti-reverse-importation sabotage operation. Hopefully replacements get made available at some point. But do we really have the right to expect the same quality Japanese customers get, when we're paying so much less? When we're paying 20% of the JP prices, even getting something half as good means we come out ahead.

So if Switzerland pays $6.80 for a Big Mac while the U.S. pays $5.30 and Japan pays $3.40 then that means the U.S. should get 20% less beef in their burger and Japan 50% less because they aren't paying the same prices or everyone should pay the same price as the Swiss for their Big Mac? Hollywood live-action movies are also more expensive in Japan than the U.S., how is that fair to the Japanese? Why don't Americans pay say $50 for a Hollywood BD and pay $80 for UHD? Markets are different. Purchasing power and what consumers value is different.

Also Japan is now making money from licensing for streaming and home video sales. This means they have more than one revenue stream coming in for their product when in the past they didn't. How about the increase in licensing costs? So I'm not sure its accurate to suggest that the Japanese are only getting a piece of that 20% and therefore its ok to get less quality.

I'm sympathetic to the Japanese concern over reverse-importation and I'm ok with things like burned in subs and other methods to mitigate reverse-imports. However, I don't buy BDs to get "half as good" video and audio quality, we might as well go back to DVDs then. It certainly doesn't want to make me buy their product if it is deficient, which means they would be losing a buying customer. I get annoyed enough when Hollywood takes short cuts with their BDs.
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professorwho



Joined: 11 Aug 2017
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:18 pm Reply with quote
One-Eye wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
I agree that the artifacts in this release make it subpar even by Western standards, and were likely avoidable with better encoding... assuming this wasn't a total anti-reverse-importation sabotage operation. Hopefully replacements get made available at some point. But do we really have the right to expect the same quality Japanese customers get, when we're paying so much less? When we're paying 20% of the JP prices, even getting something half as good means we come out ahead.

So if Switzerland pays $6.80 for a Big Mac while the U.S. pays $5.30 and Japan pays $3.40 then that means the U.S. should get 20% less beef in their burger and Japan 50% less because they aren't paying the same prices or everyone should pay the same price as the Swiss for their Big Mac? Hollywood live-action movies are also more expensive in Japan than the U.S., how is that fair to the Japanese? Why don't Americans pay say $50 for a Hollywood BD and pay $80 for UHD? Markets are different. Purchasing power and what consumers value is different.

Also Japan is now making money from licensing for streaming and home video sales. This means they have more than one revenue stream coming in for their product when in the past they didn't. How about the increase in licensing costs? So I'm not sure its accurate to suggest that the Japanese are only getting a piece of that 20% and therefore its ok to get less quality.

I'm sympathetic to the Japanese concern over reverse-importation and I'm ok with things like burned in subs and other methods to mitigate reverse-imports. However, I don't buy BDs to get "half as good" video and audio quality, we might as well go back to DVDs then. It certainly doesn't want to make me buy their product if it is deficient, which means they would be losing a buying customer. I get annoyed enough when Hollywood takes short cuts with their BDs.


Guys, there is banding in almost every single shot. This might be the worst looking Blu-ray I've ever seem.
https://imgur.com/a/Q6X6dbm

If those screenshots of the BD scare you off, avoid it like the plague. FUNimation should be ashamed of themselves, this is unacceptable and needs to be addressed by an acknowledgement of how terrible it is.
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One-Eye



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 2261
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:34 pm Reply with quote
@professorwho
?
I agree this release is not worth me paying for. My response to Zalis116 was primarily about his statement: "But do we really have the right to expect the same quality Japanese customers get, when we're paying so much less? When we're paying 20% of the JP prices, even getting something half as good means we come out ahead." Which I don't agree with. I was pointing out that just because prices are higher in some regions doesn't mean that a product should be of lesser quality and reverse importation fears which he suggested as a possibility still doesn't justify crippling a product (if that's what was done).
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professorwho



Joined: 11 Aug 2017
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:45 pm Reply with quote
One-Eye wrote:
@professorwho
?
I agree this release is not worth me paying for. My response to Zalis116 was primarily about his statement: "But do we really have the right to expect the same quality Japanese customers get, when we're paying so much less? When we're paying 20% of the JP prices, even getting something half as good means we come out ahead." Which I don't agree with. I was pointing out that just because prices are higher in some regions doesn't mean that a product should be of lesser quality and reverse importation fears which he suggested as a possibility still doesn't justify crippling a product (if that's what was done).


I understand. I agree, I simply wanted to post screencaps and decided to do it by quoting.
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 3984
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Snakebit1995 wrote:
You're right, I think we maybe hear of a Funi disc error around once a year, and given the amount they work on for home release and simulcast of dubs it's kinda surprising that only on thing slips through the cracks every year.

This. I think they do a very good job overall. Hopefully they'll do a replacement for these like they have for some other titles.

Zalis116 wrote:
Apparently there are reports (also from Professorwho) that these discs lack the Next Episode Previews. I know many care don't care about them, on the grounds of "Show's already finished, you can watch the next ep without waiting a week, you don't need the previews if you've already seen the whole series." But I agree with Professorwho's sentiment; you can easily skip them if they're present, but you can't choose to watch them if they're not there. I for one choose to watch them >99% of the time, whether the show's complete or not, and regardless of whether or not I've seen it before. Maybe the licensor didn't want them on the overseas versions of Re:Zero?

Agreed, I like ep previews a lot too.
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