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Why You Should Give Anime Reboots a Chance


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MagicPolly



Joined: 26 Nov 2020
Posts: 1582
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm one of the few who actually likes Deen Stay Night just as much as the Ufotable version. Honestly if I wasn't friends with a vn reader I probably wouldn't even have noticed the differences (I didn't even bother telling him I was watching it until halfway through because I knew he'd be disappointed lol). I feel like what's gained in flashy visuals and music is lost with the subtlety of the plot (I think Disillusion is a much better tone for the op than the UBW ones).

Then again that's just my opinion, and I know a lot of people want a Fate route readaptation but I think the Deen series stands fine on its own. The movie is a different story though lol.

Edit: Oh, and just wanted to shout out a huge remake blue balls in the form of Higurashi Gou. I'm fine with then taking the story in this direction but man why did they have to pretend it was a remake for 4 episodes, and keep pretending for another 9?
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KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 954
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:37 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
Was there some kind of pushback against anime reboots I was unaware of?

Yeah I’m not going to lie, a piece talking about why more people should give
“first adaptation” series a chance would be a far more interesting read.
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harminia



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 2004
Location: australia
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
came across as a dull, poorly-paced mess that misrepresented the appeal of the source material.
Plus the animation sucked. As a Yozakura fan, it was one of those anime that was so lousily animated that it was too disappointing to watch (Princess Resurrection is another one where the main anime had crap animation, but then had an OVA series made with lovely animation). The animation for Yozakura Quartet ~Hoshi no Umi~ was so good, but unfortunately it covered arcs from the story I hadn't read up to yet (namely because of the manga not being physically published before that. Hm, kinda like Princess Resurrection).

As an aside, FMA 03 was a massive part of my life that, though I have the full collection of FMA Brotherhood, I have not watched it because I just don't feel like it'll have that magic to it. I enjoyed the manga, though I never finished it, but idk... Brotherhood just doesn't excite me.
I also watched all of Hellsing but never watched Ultimate. original hellsing had it's own charm (the OP was so good). I have no real interest in watching Ultimate, but that may be more because Hellsing is not a series I particularly care about, so I'm happy just remembering watching the original and having read one volume of the manga.

In terms of whether reboots are good or bad, I can't say. I think there are some shows that, while they don't NEED a reboot (I don't think any series NEEDS a reboot when other stuff could be done with those resources instead), it's probably good they did get them, so that fans of the source material get a show that meets their expectations more. I mean, it is nice to see a proper adaptation of a work you like, rather than seeing something change everything or even run it off the rails.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:52 pm Reply with quote
kawaiibunny3 wrote:
It's a good article, but I was kinda hoping there would be some expansion on older anime that keep getting rebooted for new audiences. Like Gegege no Kitaro, Cutey Honey, Tensai Bakabon

I've watched episodes from earlier incarnations of GeGeGe no Kitarou, and none that I've seen come close to the 2018 version. My favorite episode of that entire year is the anime-original #20 from Kitarou, where we learn that Japanese schoolgirls think World War II consisted of the US invading and Japan surrendering. The writing on this show is first-class throughout with a first-class crew of seiyuu as well.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4089
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It took over six years for all of Hellsing Ultimate to be released, but it meant that at the end of that, fans of the franchise had a definitive anime adaptation of the manga, with no compromising What-Ifs lingering the way the original anime had left them with.


And I hate Helllsing Ultimate with such a long lasting animosity that I rated it 1/5 stars for every episode release- all four at once for episodes 5-8 thanks to Funimation- and I've actually yet to watch episode 9 and 10. Maybe what's left will turn it around... a hope I watched with every OVA episode that broke my heart.

I saw what was left of it and liked it through Hellsing Abridged which at least took all the stupidity and made it entertaining. Did the OVA/Manga ever explain that THING that happened to Alucard or was it just a "Yeah, that ... happened? So don't worry about it." thing? Sometimes, dead is better. No, I'm thinking of Pet Semetary.

Sometimes, undead is better. I have the TV series, I still like the TV series because if you can't come up with a good reason for all the shenanigans, just don't have them.

Fullmetal Alchemist is a bit more curious as I never liked the original TV series... because they tried to come up with an explanation for all the shenanigans and it was awful; most people don't even notice that BONES made it into a straight shonen so Roy became a secret mentor/"friend of the family" type for Ed somehow- never Al, just Ed. I was disgusted by the TV series but I went and read the manga anyway and right from the start, it "fixed" so many things from the anime. From the Government structure to narrative imperative of Ed and Al's work with the State Alchemists to the 7 sins themselves.

BONES also made Soul Eater into a single hero shonen... yeah, BONES has issues.

And then there's Higurashi.... I still think it was meant to be a reboot but it came out so terrible that the producers made it into a sequel instead. But it still is a reboot because... the writers couldn't come up with new scenarios somehow?
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4588
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
To be fair, the opposite (i.e. "Why You Should Give the First Anime Adaptation a Chance") can absolutely be brought up, as well, especially since most people will only be familiar with a newer adaptation.

...

Really, I'm just trying to say that, when it comes to reboots, there is worth is checking out both, depending on how much you liked the one you saw first.

This is an excellent point, and I think it encapsulates why I'm so wary of reboots as a general concept. My experience with rebooted properties has been that they often create a situation where the existence of the first adaptation is all but forgotten, and those people who enjoy or (gasp) even prefer it are instantly placed on the defensive whenever they express that opinion. As the article noted, obviously FMA is the ur-example of this. I'll never make any secret about the fact that, having seen both adaptations, I still genuinely prefer the 03 series to Brotherhood: I felt like its emotional themes were more developed, and that the bittersweet tone of the ending was a better fit than Brotherhood's neatly-tied bow. (Let's...just agree to ignore Shamballa.) There's probably some nostalgia talking, since 03 was among my earliest true fandom experiences, but even so I didn't enjoy Brotherhood all that much until it moved beyond the shared content, because its version seemed so rushed and lifeless compared to the earlier adaptation. Yet even to this day I'll occasionally see significant pushback if that opinion is expressed, with the usual counter-argument being, "But 03 wasn't the real version because it's not what Arakawa wrote!" To which my usual response is "...so what?" I don't particularly care who was responsible for content, or whether or not it was in the original work being adapted, just whether or not I find it well-written and entertaining. That being said I certainly don't begrudge Brotherhood's existence at all, and at the end of the day we now have two separate versions of the story that can be enjoyed on their own merits.

Where reboots really fall short with me is when they rehash content that has already been covered perfectly well by a previous adaptation. This is usually the case when the anime catches up with the original manga and chooses to leave off there, as opposed to something like FMA which decided to chart its own path from the get-go. In those cases, what we actually need are simple continuations, not reboots. As Lord Geo noted, Hunter x Hunter is a great example of this: the newer adaptation is fine and all, but I'm willing to state that the 1999 version's take on the Hunter Exam was objectively better in almost every way that mattered, and even the section of filler added to it was enjoyable and helped flesh out some of the minor candidates. (Fun fact: I was convinced until a ways into that version that Kurapika was secretly female. Laughing ) While the Yorknew arc was closer to a toss-up, the first adaptation definitely did a better job at setting the mood visually. While I didn't actively dislike the repeated content, the new adaptation could have just as easily picked things up after Greed Island. Rurouni Kenshin is another great example: there was that OVA project a decade ago that readapted the Kyoto arc, one of the best shonen arcs of all time that was portrayed expertly in the original, and shockingly enough it was completely disposable. If you're going to make an arc adaptation years after the fact, why not tackle the final manga arc that was never covered by the original, instead of a pale shadow of something that was? Something similar happened with the more recent Kino's Journey adaptation, which decided to cover some of the same stories from the early-2000s version for some reason, but in what I heard was a far inferior fashion.That's what concerns me the most about any theoretical future take on The Promised Neverland. Does it need a massive do-over? Absolutely, but for the love of Phil don't attempt to rehash Grace Field House, because season 1 was a modern-day masterpiece.

(Although I haven't seen it, I found the concept of what Blue Exorcist tried with its continuation really fascinating, playing the "it-never-happened" game with the last few anime-original episodes and then continuing on with the manga storyline.)

The worst are always the completely-unnecessary remakes, full retreads of well-regarded works for no other apparent reason than a blatant cash-grab. Of course they're hardly an anime-exclusive problem, as Hollywood has seemed hell-bent on churning them out like crazy over the past two decades or so. I mean just look at Spider-Man, which in the course of 15 years saw three entirely-separate takes on the character. At least the first two Sam Raimi films were generally well-received, but then there was a second version that I don't think I've ever seen so much as a second of, and then finally the inevitable MCU incorporation. I like how the latter didn't even bother rehashing his origin story, because they knew that everyone had already seen it done twice over the previous decade, so why bother? I'm sure we could all come up with dozens of similar examples, including other remakes of relatively-recent properties. (*laughs in Fantastic Four*) On the anime side of things, what immediately jumps out to me is the recent Legend of the Galactic Heroes adaptation. It may be a good enough show in its own right, but I cannot drum up even the slightest enthusiasm to watch it. The original 110-episode OVA series is one of the most ambitious projects in anime history, something that unarguably stands at the very pinnacle of the medium. After that, what else could a second adaptation possibly bring to the table? I just can't figure out why it exists.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5959
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:47 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Strange not to discuss the most obvious drawback of rebooting, it takes resource away from something else. In a vacuum there's no reason not to reboot something, but in the real world this means that money and talent that could have gone toward something (either an original or an adaptation of something that was never adapted) instead goes toward something that was already tried (often ending in failure).



Studios have allocated money and resources into new and original projects and they've still failed for one reason or the next. And not simply because they didn't have the budget or the resources which was put elsewhere.

Top Gun wrote:
I like how the latter didn't even bother rehashing his origin story, because they knew that everyone had already seen it done twice over the previous decade, so why bother?


It was more like we're introducing him in Civil War why even bother with the backstory retroactively eventhough we like prequels.

Top Gun wrote:
After that, what else could a second adaptation possibly bring to the table? I just can't figure out why it exists.


Reintroducing an established property to new audiences?

It's not always because "we didn't do it right the first time let's try again".
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Altorrin



Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 313
Location: Florida, United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:57 pm Reply with quote
I agree that there's basically no one saying not to give reboots a chance lol. But I at least appreciate this article for mentioning that FMA 2003 was extremely popular before Brotherhood came out, because a lot of articles recently like to pretend no one liked it and that it was heavily criticized for not following the manga.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4588
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:29 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:

Reintroducing an established property to new audiences?

It's not always because "we didn't do it right the first time let's try again".

See I hate the whole "this thing is old so we must make a new version of it and get it in people's faces because the profits must flow" mentality. Not everything has to be monetized and franchised indefinitely. The original series is still there, streaming on HiDive. The novels have been translated and released domestically. The home video release--okay let's not talk about that. I'd imagine there are equivalent options in Japan too. If you want to introduce the series to people, then point them at what already exists. You don't see this mentality with classic film works: "Hey, not enough people are buying Citizen Kane or Casablanca, so let's make an updated version of those so we can keep the franchise healthy!" (he says, thus ensuring this horror will come to pass). That may seem a silly comparison, but that's genuinely how much esteem I hold for the original OVA series.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Where reboots really fall short with me is when they rehash content that has already been covered perfectly well by a previous adaptation. This is usually the case when the anime catches up with the original manga and chooses to leave off there, as opposed to something like FMA which decided to chart its own path from the get-go. In those cases, what we actually need are simple continuations, not reboots. As Lord Geo noted, Hunter x Hunter is a great example of this: the newer adaptation is fine and all, but I'm willing to state that the 1999 version's take on the Hunter Exam was objectively better in almost every way that mattered, and even the section of filler added to it was enjoyable and helped flesh out some of the minor candidates. (Fun fact: I was convinced until a ways into that version that Kurapika was secretly female. Laughing ) While the Yorknew arc was closer to a toss-up, the first adaptation definitely did a better job at setting the mood visually. While I didn't actively dislike the repeated content, the new adaptation could have just as easily picked things up after Greed Island. Rurouni Kenshin is another great example: there was that OVA project a decade ago that readapted the Kyoto arc, one of the best shonen arcs of all time that was portrayed expertly in the original, and shockingly enough it was completely disposable. If you're going to make an arc adaptation years after the fact, why not tackle the final manga arc that was never covered by the original, instead of a pale shadow of something that was? Something similar happened with the more recent Kino's Journey adaptation, which decided to cover some of the same stories from the early-2000s version for some reason, but in what I heard was a far inferior fashion.That's what concerns me the most about any theoretical future take on The Promised Neverland. Does it need a massive do-over? Absolutely, but for the love of Phil don't attempt to rehash Grace Field House, because season 1 was a modern-day masterpiece.


Problem is not everyone has seen the old versions, especially if we're talking about these new adaptions that come out decades after the fact. The only recent "continuation" I can think of that worked was High School DxD where the fourth season retcons/ignores stuff from the third season since the original mangaka didn't like it and switched anime studios to make it closer to their vision. The gap between the seasons was only a few years so it was more understandable to do that.

But shows that have decades between iterations most certainly should always start from the beginning. For shows like FMA Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter, and Shaman King, starting from the beginning is the correct choice. No one should have to watch a show from 20 years ago to enjoy a modern anime adaption. I think Homecoming is a very bad example. All those Spider-Man movies are different continuities. Their origins for Peter are not applicable to MCU Peter, who is extremely different and nothing like any other version of the characters. It gets to the point it makes Peter look like he doesn't care one bit about Uncle Ben and cares more about Tony Stark being his father figure because they never really address key things about his origin. It makes him more like Iron Man's sidekick than anything else. Superhero adaptions in general are pretty messy and shouldn't be emulated. It's kinda the thing people like about anime and manga. "Where do I start with Shaman King"? "Watch episode 1". VS "Watch the first 22 episodes of the 2001 series, then switch to episode 9+ of the 2021 series" which is the kind of roundable turnoff people have with American comics and stuff.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:21 am Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:

But shows that have decades between iterations most certainly should always start from the beginning. For shows like FMA Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter, and Shaman King, starting from the beginning is the correct choice. No one should have to watch a show from 20 years ago to enjoy a modern anime adaption. I think Homecoming is a very bad example. All those Spider-Man movies are different continuities. Their origins for Peter are not applicable to MCU Peter, who is extremely different and nothing like any other version of the characters. It gets to the point it makes Peter look like he doesn't care one bit about Uncle Ben and cares more about Tony Stark being his father figure because they never really address key things about his origin. It makes him more like Iron Man's sidekick than anything else. Superhero adaptions in general are pretty messy and shouldn't be emulated. It's kinda the thing people like about anime and manga. "Where do I start with Shaman King"? "Watch episode 1". VS "Watch the first 22 episodes of the 2001 series, then switch to episode 9+ of the 2021 series" which is the kind of roundable turnoff people have with American comics and stuff.

That is a good point, although my counter-argument to it would be that while these reboots are hoping to draw in some new fans, as anything would, their primary audience will always be preexisting fans of the franchise, people who have likely already seen the original anime adaptation and are current with the manga. I think you risk potentially tempering enthusiasm for the new work if it restarts the story all the way back at the beginning, especially if the original adaptation was well-regarded and adapted the material faithfully. In a lot of those cases I feel like you could probably get by with some sort of recap special or movie to get new viewers up to speed, with the understanding that they can track down the manga or the original series if they want to get everything in more detail. (Brotherhood was a different case, as there was already original material interspersed amongst the manga-adapted part of the 03 series, and so there wasn't really a clean break point to start from.) I mean it's not like there isn't precedent for picking up where some past work left off: a recent example that comes to mind are the Digimon Adventure films, which were clearly meant as a nostalgia play for pre-existing fans of the original TV series and advanced the story forward accordingly. That's an original work as opposed to a manga adaptation, but the same principle largely applies.
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taster of pork



Joined: 11 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:45 am Reply with quote
The 2003 Astro Boy series was a pretty good reboot. I'm still hoping that it'll get a subbed release one day.
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:48 am Reply with quote
There is also Hakyu Hoshin Engi but the fast pacing was a joke. I kept cringing a lot about the speed so I quit that anime.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4442
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Altorrin wrote:
I agree that there's basically no one saying not to give reboots a chance lol. But I at least appreciate this article for mentioning that FMA 2003 was extremely popular before Brotherhood came out, because a lot of articles recently like to pretend no one liked it and that it was heavily criticized for not following the manga.


Agreed. '03 is still my favorite anime, and it's pretty easy for people to dismiss that its massive popularity is a large factor in why we got Brotherhood so quickly. Honestly, I had to come back an watch Brotherhood later because so much of the conversation around it seemed to act like '03 was somehow not the critical and commercial success that it was. Nowadays, though, I can enjoy both, even if they go for pretty divergent tones.


One thing I am curious about with FMA though, is how it came about that it was picked up for 51 episodes at the time. From what I understand, they went into that original direction with Arakawa's permission since the manga was nowhere near done, and it's at about the halfway point that the anime does its own thing. Like I said, it's my favorite, so I'm not at all complaining, but it seems like the people involved would have been able to reasonably guess that there wasn't enough source material at the time to fill that many episodes. It sort of seems like fewer episodes would have made more sense, at least if staying close to the manga was a concern.

It's a bit different with Hellsing, where there wasn't enough to even fill one standard cour and I'm sure TV networks wouldn't have been as interested in something so short, so jumping on the hype train won out there, even if they knew they'd have to make something up to fill the episodes.
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Temujin25S



Joined: 06 Jul 2021
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:20 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
DavetheUsher wrote:

But shows that have decades between iterations most certainly should always start from the beginning. For shows like FMA Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter, and Shaman King, starting from the beginning is the correct choice. No one should have to watch a show from 20 years ago to enjoy a modern anime adaption. I think Homecoming is a very bad example. All those Spider-Man movies are different continuities. Their origins for Peter are not applicable to MCU Peter, who is extremely different and nothing like any other version of the characters. It gets to the point it makes Peter look like he doesn't care one bit about Uncle Ben and cares more about Tony Stark being his father figure because they never really address key things about his origin. It makes him more like Iron Man's sidekick than anything else. Superhero adaptions in general are pretty messy and shouldn't be emulated. It's kinda the thing people like about anime and manga. "Where do I start with Shaman King"? "Watch episode 1". VS "Watch the first 22 episodes of the 2001 series, then switch to episode 9+ of the 2021 series" which is the kind of roundable turnoff people have with American comics and stuff.

That is a good point, although my counter-argument to it would be that while these reboots are hoping to draw in some new fans, as anything would, their primary audience will always be preexisting fans of the franchise, people who have likely already seen the original anime adaptation and are current with the manga. I think you risk potentially tempering enthusiasm for the new work if it restarts the story all the way back at the beginning, especially if the original adaptation was well-regarded and adapted the material faithfully. In a lot of those cases I feel like you could probably get by with some sort of recap special or movie to get new viewers up to speed, with the understanding that they can track down the manga or the original series if they want to get everything in more detail. (Brotherhood was a different case, as there was already original material interspersed amongst the manga-adapted part of the 03 series, and so there wasn't really a clean break point to start from.) I mean it's not like there isn't precedent for picking up where some past work left off: a recent example that comes to mind are the Digimon Adventure films, which were clearly meant as a nostalgia play for pre-existing fans of the original TV series and advanced the story forward accordingly. That's an original work as opposed to a manga adaptation, but the same principle largely applies.


There's a bigger issue thats not being addressed, or maybe its not something anime consumers just never pondered on regarding this topic, without these reboots newer audience wouldn't give the material a chance or be aware despite older fans touting how it great the particularly series is. Why is that, there can be various reasons one common denominator it's old meaning dated visuals especially in eyes of casuals even among the hardcore (there's portion of fanbase that don't watch older anime of certain era's, of course depending the individual though can be similar at times may have different cut off points) keep in mind I'm not judging anyone's preference visuals part of anime DNA especially now. It's just that it's a key component why anime reboots are clamored for even with high acclaimed adaptation existing, (there are few anime's which are exception would met with distaste), majority of the time older fans also seem to be hoping for new adaptation to draw newer audience's bring a new hype and acknowledgement of the show. This something I've just observed and witnessed.
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