Forum - View topicShigurui (TV).
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yourrealdad
 Posts: 10 Location: Fort Collins Colorado |
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I thought it was great until the end. I got worried as time was running out that there was no way they could finish the story and they didn't. It was another Beserk, where a good anime gets ruined by not being finished. spoiler[All I wanted to see was what happened to Seigen and Fujiki and it never happens.]
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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OK, there was a reference to sexual violence, so that got me "curious" (because I've looked and I tend to like violent stuff... but... that's one area that makes me somewhat uncomfortable).
For example, I really liked Kara no Kyoukai, but the first scene of the 3rd movie was just disturbing to me. It's not that I see that as real in any fashion, but I don't like seeing women treated like that. I was really disgusted by it and felt it was unnecessary for them to go to those lengths to get the point across. I liked Kill Bill a great deal, but the scenes that make me cringe are the ones in the hospital. If there is anything I avoid it's those parts of the film. I can deal with the hacking people up all day lol. I just don't like anything akin to rape scenes. To me it feels worse than merely killing someone even if thinking about it I know i shouldn't feel that way. Anyway, I can probably like this even if it has that, but I probably would not watch it more than once if it's a focus in a lot of episodes. I really liked Higurashi, but while it was violent in extreme fashion and even cringe-worthy at times there was light-hearted fair to break that up. There was also some genuinely good relationships between the characters at times that formed this kind of high-low-high that made it a very engaging series. Kill Bill was not like that. It was pretty much purely about the revenge and while there were funny moments it was purely dark humor. I am much more inclined to re-watch Higurashi than Kill Bill for this reason. Having said that I'm a fan of these things, am I likely to like Shigurui? |
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Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
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Xanas:
Shigurui is a bit 'unique', so I can't say for sure whether or not you would like it (I suspect yes), but it would certainly give you a lot to cringe over. Some of the disturbing bits include: spoiler[A woman being tied-up in a pseudo bondage fashion while a guy practices not quite cutting her. A really creepy guy feels up his (adult) daughter a couple of times to see if she is "ready to bear children". Later she is almost raped. A woman's nipple is ripped off. Later someone eats it(!). She is then forced to burn her boyfriend's genitles with a hot poker. One character gives himself (!) a blow job while fantasizing about a dead comrade. Two samurai have a taste for boys, if you know what I mean, and visit a specialty brothel.] I cringed just writing all that. I will say that despite all of this I consider the show to be a good one, but I probably won't rewatch it. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Uh, no, you're not left on an impossible cliff-hanger here. May not fully cover all of the events, but it pretty much gives as satisfying of a climax and resolution possible.
For the female characters, there's three, four scenes in the first half of the series that are really uncomfortable. That's about it, really; despite how the women are beneath them in this show (and consequently, the era itself), the men are the ones who receive the harshest of punishments. The ambition and egoism feeds the brutality and betrayal, creating chaos and violence for the sheer feeling (which is pushed directly to the forefront with the daimyo demanding duels be fought with actual blades instead of wooden swords). The sexual content for the women in the show is limited in comparison, overall. Shigurui is an absurdist tragedy that has a lot of slow, meditative scenes with bursts of hyper-violence -- lots of blood, limbs and lives lost. |
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yourrealdad
Posts: 10 Location: Fort Collins Colorado |
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[quote="HellKorn"]
Uh, no, you're not left on an impossible cliff-hanger here. May not fully cover all of the events, but it pretty much gives as satisfying of a climax and resolution possible. I disagree, the series started with Seiko and Fujiki aspoiler[bout to battle for the Shogun and one blind the other missing an arm. We found out about the arm but the story was set up so that we would find out about the past of these two warriors and how they came to be where they were. I want to know what happened to hims arm, more so than who even wins the battle between them, but that was also left out. ] Art doesn't need to come full circle but when you base your art on that circle it should go 360 |
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GrinfilledCelt
 Posts: 75 Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc. |
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This show isn't for everyone. It's very Japanese. It's very graphically violent and deals with a culture that has values very different from our own or even modern Japan. It also does so with very adult issues within that culture. They don't waste time explaining the culture and it's values. You just have to know or surmise these things.
Not everyone can comfortably deal with such ideas. If you are one of these people you will be uncomfortable with this show. That doesn't mean that you are unsophisticated or dumb or deficient in any way. It just means that this show isn't for you. It's just a show. It also has an intriguing story to tell of ambition, cruelty, passion, and of honor. It's been quite a while since I saw this show so my memory of it is not perfect. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that spoiler[what happened to the arm is in there. What happens in the match doesn't really matter. One of them dies with honor having been killed honorably by the other. Or maybe both of them die with honor. In the end, all of the spectators envy such an honorable death.] You know, the usual samurai junk. The story is what led up to it. |
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Joichiro Nishi
Posts: 163 |
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I disagree because Shigurui was a grotesque representation of that "samurai junk". For me, the ending was about spoiler[the interminable cycle of violence in the Japanese feudal society. At the end, it doesn't matter who wins.] |
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Voradors
Posts: 7 |
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[quote="yourrealdad"]
When do you find out about the arm?? I didn't see anything that explained that, and it was actually one thing that always bothered me about Shingurui. |
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Mike On Top
 Posts: 298 |
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I aslo have a deja vu of an explanation presented, hm. Wasn't it mentioned when the court doctor examined Gennosuke (and Irako) before the duel? Unfortunately, the referent scenes about the tournament are spread across the series and it's hard to locate them, but I'll look later and will try to find it.
Also, I believe that Irako spoiler[won], because if we assume that spoiler[he developed his "dragon" technique to withstand Kogan's "tiger" one, and had defeated Kogan to his death, it is somewhat logical to expect that he would deliver the decisive blow against the second representative of the Kogan-ryuu. It couldn't be possible without sacrificing a limb or receiving a major injury though, which makes the whole thing pointless again]. That is, the match had been doomed from the beginning to the end, or so I think 
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Voradors
Posts: 7 |
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im not sure..... i dont think you can look at the duel that way because...spoiler[ to effectively do the 'tiger' technique you would need 2 functional limbs. 1 to swing the katana and the other to apply resistance to the blade so that once you release that resistance the blade would travel faster (like you saw in the last epp). this leads me to believe that, just like Irako developed his own proprietary style, Gennosuke would have been forced to do the same. so its kind of a wash again and left to your own personal interpretation. but that said....i lean towards Irako winning too. he just seemed to have the greater natural talent, while Gennosuke just had amazing determination and drive] |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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I suppose, but Shigurui doesn't place itself on that "circle." spoiler[Irako's and Fujiki's lives crumble around them. Their oppurtunity for success are destroyed, they lose parts of their bodies, and the dojo is utterly lost. We don't see the full path to their duel, and while I would love to see a second season (to finish the story?), I'm satisfied with where these 12 episodes take us.]
There's no "honor" to hold, though. As I described earlier, Shigurui is a hyper-violent, animated version of Harakiri -- essentially an indictment of the samurai code, and also an ultimate tragedy paved by ambition. spoiler[One of the first scenes of the series involves a samurai showing the daimyo the results of a duel with actual blades. They die for the bloodthirsty entertainment provided, for no reason other -- where the hell is the honor in that?] |
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Mike On Top
Posts: 298 |
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I feel like I owe you a report, although after the today's "indept" review of the series, we might be stigmatized as people with a very bad taste, and implied, we will never show ourselves here dicussing Shigurui 
So, I couldn't rewatch the series, because I have a flu, pretty nasty side story, but I managed to read the manga. The anime ends in some late chapter spoiler[in volume 7 of the manga, which has not been scanlated yet, and the manga is still on-going (currently vol. 12). The anime follows the manga almost strictly, so at this point I'll assume the information in the two is similar. All the manga says (so far) is that Gennouske lost his arm in battle. However, in chapter Zero, where Gennosuke and Mie prepare themselves for the tournament, Gennosuke says something like that nothing makes sense anymore or rather that leaving sense (doing crazy things?) is his only choice to face the upcoming events (after Kogan's death and before being summoned to the castle). His left arm is cut, he trains, and the wound bleeds. Now, you have noticed that there are two driving points for the Kogan's technique: hand to hand for Kogan, and hand to toe for Irako. Kogan initially has a powerful grip with his 6-finger right hand, and uses the left for direction and additional pressure. Irako slices upwards, controlling the blade's direction from his toes, but the speed and the force come from his body twisted in an unusual, spring-like, stance. Gennosuke is really the weird one, because he has no second referring point. When he accidently discovers that his two "frozen" fingers can be used as Kogan's 6, thus coming closer to Kogan's Shooting Star he has never seen, he keeps his left elbow folded in front the torso, as if putting it out of the blade's sway. From here I can be only purely speculative of why's that, and I have to admit that I thought Gennosuke might have cut off his arm on purpose, not necesserily in battle  Of course, I might be wrong, but, anyway, I don't know when I'll rewatch the series - need to shock some clients with a brand new sliding door this week ]
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Considering how interesting the discussion is, I'm giving a link to the response to the review. Refreshingly civil, really. |
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