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Last edited by kaiser11492 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total

Teriyaki Terrier wrote:

If your company makes a bad product, you deserve to go out of business. It's business 101. Then another company moves in to take over. In this case, probably Funimation.

4kids is going to die soon anyways. look at the financial state they are in. they have been delisted from the NYSE, lost Pokemon (a big cash pumper), not making any significant profits, filed for bankruptcy, and were sued (even if they won, a court case is still going to cost you tons of legal fees, along with the fact it doesn't give you a good image). in my opinion, 4kids should've collapsed from financial problems a few years ago, yet they exceeded their expiration date.

4kids is not a good anime dubbing company because they refuse to change their practices or views towards anime. 4kids views are to me medieval when compared to companies like FUNimation and Viz media. and what happens in nature if you don't adapt to your environment? you die out.

Basically I'm saying that 4kids is the "sick man of anime dubbing"

TitanXL wrote:

Joe Mello wrote:

First, I think you're painting the "kids" demographic with too broad of a brush. The differences in taste between, say age 8 and age 12 can be quite large.

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Second, 4Kids absolutely does not target us as a fanbase, because their target really is kids and pre-teens. The frustrating part is that they don't acknowledge the older people in the room like the Dexter's Labs and the Friendship is Magics of the world do. I even bet the powers at 4Kids know they don't have to cater to us at all because we're going to watch it, anyway.

Yes, that's my point. 4Kids doesn't target 'anime fans' they target little kids. That's the main problem and why they are a bad company who lose profits each year and will hopefully go down the drain soon; or at least stop licensing anime. And I'm not sure why you used those two shows given they're token kids shows through and through and have no relation at all to these anime or situations.

And if people watch 4Kids dubs when there's fansubs easily available on the internet, that's their problem they're settling for bad Americanized dubs. That's why those fansubs exist in the first place.

Not targeting us is NOT why they're losing money. 4kids is losing money because they're still hanging onto a Saturday morning block that consists of only two new shows and then repeats everyone has seen. All their big hits have been taken from them. Nick has Ninja Turtles and Winx now, which were two of the four big rating grabs. Sonic and YGO can only take a block so far. When YGO 5Ds was on Cartoon Network, the ratings and card sales were up. It wasn't until CW started airing the show exclusively again that the ratings and sales started to decline and they needed to quickly switch to Zexal in a hope to fix it.

You see we don't matter. We might not buy DVDs (Though many YGO fans who dislike the 4Kids dub DO buy them) but YGO fans, and all us anime fans, buy the cards and video games regardless of if 4Kids is providing them with an uncut dub. The dub exists to get kids into the card game and toyline. That's how 4Kids operates. Adult fans will buy the toys and products regardless, and the show exists to get young children interested. Almost every 4Kids show runs on this philosophy. Every last show 4Kids has dubbed is a merchandise driven kids show. Some of these shows like Doremi and Tokyo Mew Mew didn't get toylines off the ground, but were still intended to get kids to buy toys.

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Bulbapedia is not a very good site to use for edits, though.

They do have a decent listing of individual changes and errors per episode. The site isn't just for comparing the differences between the Japanese anime and American version but it also things like trivia, cards, comics, and the video games.

Last edited by kaiser11492 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Not targeting us is NOT why they're losing money. 4kids is losing money because they're still hanging onto a Saturday morning block that consists of only two new shows and then repeats everyone has seen. All their big hits have been taken from them. Nick has Ninja Turtles and Winx now, which were two of the four big rating grabs. Sonic and YGO can only take a block so far. When YGO 5Ds was on Cartoon Network, the ratings and card sales were up. It wasn't until CW started airing the show exclusively again that the ratings and sales started to decline and they needed to quickly switch to Zexal in a hope to fix it.

I don't really care what is causing 4kids to loose money. All I care about is 4kids collapsing from all it's stupid decisions and financial problems.

TitanXL wrote:

In addition to the lack of respect for the original works of any of their shows, they don't even respect their own version since they don't even dub the entirety of each series and always skip the last like 30 episodes and leave the series unfinished. Completely unprofessional.

I totally agree that 4kids is unprofessional. 4kids doesn't deserve to dub anime anymore. They have shown to be incapable of doing so. One Piece is a prime example. Also look at Yugioh. They ended a Yugioh series prematurely not once, but TWICE for no apparent reason.

kayube wrote:

4Kids has been getting better about providing access to the uncut versions of shows more recently. They have streams of the subtitled versions of Yu-Gi-Oh GX and 5D's. I'd still prefer to have actual physical releases of them though.

I wouldn't be here criticizing 4kids if they gave me a choice between an edited and a good unedited dub. FUNimation and Viz media both do it successfully (because even they make tiny edits when they air their shows). I don't mind watching subs either, but when I want to watch a tv show, I'm not really their to read the show. also the subtitles distract me from the actual show itself.

Last edited by TitanXL on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total

Elwood wrote:

You see we don't matter. We might not buy DVDs (Though many YGO fans who dislike the 4Kids dub DO buy them) but YGO fans, and all us anime fans, buy the cards and video games regardless of if 4Kids is providing them with an uncut dub. The dub exists to get kids into the card game and toyline. That's how 4Kids operates. Adult fans will buy the toys and products regardless, and the show exists to get young children interested. Almost every 4Kids show runs on this philosophy. Every last show 4Kids has dubbed is a merchandise driven kids show. Some of these shows like Doremi and Tokyo Mew Mew didn't get toylines off the ground, but were still intended to get kids to buy toys.

And it's sad that kind of soulless mindset still exists in this day and age. If the original creators can put all that effort into those shows, the dub could at least match that effort.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

They do have a decent listing of individual changes and errors per episode. The site isn't just for comparing the differences between the Japanese anime and American version but it also things like trivia, cards, comics, and the video games.

I just find they don't list much.. random episode I looked at, the list doesn't mention Takeshi being a creeper in the original where he asks a girl if she's 18 yet and saying how he'll have some fun with her when she turns 18. Also I remember in the original Satoshi comes up with a strategy to beat the Frontier Brain's pokemon, but the dub removes it and just has him shout generic 'don't give up Pikachu' lines which also isn't mentioned... actually this episode has nothing listed for dub edits at all which is pretty untrue, so yeah. There's a lot they're missing.

TitanXL wrote:

Mohawk52 wrote:

No, no, no, you've all miss the point of how 4Kids sees cartoons; which is a 27 minute advertisement for the merchandice they can pack onto a long shelf at Toys-R-Us, and all the other toy shops out there. This was all well and good when they got it right with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. It's when they tried to deconstruct and reconstruct titles that were never targeted at kids in the first place and were never going to have merchandise to sell no matter how hard they tried, that in their naivity they blindly walked into a part of town they had no right being, telling everyone they met that only kids who don't know any better, or retarded adults watch cartoons, and got what they deserved for it.

They never picked up a show that wasn't for kids though, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Never heard of One Piece? I should have added "solely for kids" to be more specific. My bad.

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Keep in mind what's acceptable for kids is different in Japan and America. You can have blatant pedophiles and rape scenes in the original versions of Pocket Monsters and Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters respectively, but they're still kids shows in Japan.

Were there any? I mean I know the Japanese are a bit more liberal, but that seems too extreme even by their standards there. Shocked

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That's ultimately the problem though. The original Japanese companies do actually care about kids shows and view them as more than just toy commercials; they're anime through and through and are treated as such... 4Kids does not, so in their eyes editing down character motivations and throwing out story isn't a big deal to them.

My point exactly and it was them trying to fit a pineapple into a hole for cherries, is what they took their editing clevers to in blissful delight thinking nobody would, or should care.

You know I see articles about 4kids, and I agree a bad company should go down for releasing a bad product or having bad business practices (Well SHOULD being the key word here, tell that to Media Blasters and FUNimation) BUT when I hear people ranting and raving about bad dubs? PFFT, please

You wanna hear a bad dub? Go watch Psychic Wars and Apocalypse Zero,

When people complain that 4kids has bad dubs, what they are really saying is "I'm frustrated that its edited, so by default its bad". If you can honestly tell me that Eric Stuart, Dan Green and Veronica Taylor are bad actors, hell most of the actors who work in New York, are bad, you need your ears checked and your expectations altered

Has anyone seen the original Yugioh? episode for episode? 4kids did Yugioh a favor the way they did it, and even though we lost most guns, some violence, and some more "heart driven" situations, the reality of it is, thats all fluff that can be cut because what matters is the card game, and 4kids knows that not only do kids love that, but that the shows Teen demographic in Japan wouldn't translate well over here. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer Jonouchi to Brooklyn's Joey, but the original yugioh is pretty bland, like really bland, most of the time, the content itself is ok, but there's no heartdriven momentum, the build up is kinda there, and the battles are battles, but compare the very first episode of the dub and sub, edited versus uncut, I'd take cut ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, because its actually fun and exciting to watch, music is spot on, Yugi and Kaiba's battles feel epic and thats what matters, not the date Yami went on with Anzu during battle city, lol

Last edited by kaiser11492 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total

TitanXL wrote:

The funny thing about Yu-Gi-Oh is the card game is aimed at teenagers and adults in Japan. Or at least the booster packs have 13+ labeled on them, and most people who play in the tournaments are in their late teens and early 20s. It's already surpassed Magic in popularity, so the reason for needlessly censoring it and marketing it for little kids eludes me. I think teenagers can handle a bit more than that stuff.

Never thought of it that way. Besides, does 4kids think we're that stupid? Who doesn't know that a spinning saw will result in getting your legs cuts off or falling out of a building is going to result in death? Also, my dad grew up watching guns on tv when he was a kid. And guess what, he turned out fine. So what is 4kids so afraid of?

Dagon123 wrote:

If you can honestly tell me that Eric Stuart, Dan Green and Veronica Taylor are bad actors, hell most of the actors who work in New York, are bad, you need your ears checked and your expectations altered.

In my opinion, all of them are talented voice actors, it's just that other companies have voice actors who portray characters who are completely different from one another. to me, 4kids voice actors tend to always play the same kind of character with the same voice (which isn't that bad since i can recognize many voice actors in FUNimation shows) and same personality.

However, Megan Hollingshead and Sam Riegel are pretty good in my opinion since they do voices outside of 4kids' domain.

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Eh, never watched the RAI English ones, but if it's anything like those "not-American-English" dubs some anime get in the Phillipines, it's probably just as bad.

You aren't missing out. While the voice acting wasn't quite as bad as most Hong Kong, Filipino, or Singaporean-based English dubs, the voice acting was pretty amateurish at best (especially in season 4). The recording quality was also pretty bad. This is just for the TV series. It was recorded in Quebec using the same talent pool as several PBS Kids shows like Arthur and Caillou. The RAI dub of the first two movies was actually recorded in California with well known voice actors like Cindy Robinson, Christopher Corey Smith, and Stephanie Sheh. The results were actually decent.

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Bulbapedia is not a very good site to use for edits, though. Or really any 'wiki' type of site that relies on user content. Just looking at it, they don't list virtually anything. From personal experience, I can tell you if I listed everything changed in the [Pokemon] dub, I'd pretty much be transcribing the whole episode out. And that's just for the script, and not taking into account the music, the actual edited scenes, digital paint being used, and so forth. It's a lot of work.

Not in the beginning, from what I've heard (I admit, all I've seen of Japanese Pokemon is the Porygon episode. Not that I care about watching the series in Japanese. It's extremely difficult to find much of it online in foreign languages anyway, especially the early episodes. It's even worse now with MegaVideo gone). Bulbapedia is a pretty respected Wiki with a TON of staff members that really know their stuff. I'm not saying it's 110% accurate, but I can get a general idea based on info from hundreds of episode and movie pages. They do acknowledge any notable changes in the script, but a smaller line-by-line script analysis with all the tiny differences would be tedious. Those comparisons are just meant to list larger and general differences (remember, that feature is only an extra). As for the digital paint, they usually list it, I believe. In the beginning, the only stuff that was digitally altered were text on signs and buildings, as well as some of the lighting and movement edits to earlier episodes made by ShoPro for international markets after the seizure incident. The music would also be getting too specific, especially since it was mostly retained in the earlier seasons, the only changes being "filler" music done to fill in certain gaps. Almost everything involving that dub got worse in later seasons, but I really only watch the pre-Advnced seasons anyway. Razz

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Never thought of it that way. Besides, does 4kids think we're that stupid? Who doesn't know that a spinning saw will result in getting your legs cuts off or falling out of a building is going to result in death? Also, I my dad grew up watching guns on tv when he was a kid. And guess what, he turned out fine. So what is 4kids so afraid of?

Might be standards and practices of certain networks, but 4Kids does go overboard on a lot of these kinds of things... Children's TV today isn't all that tame, but 4Kids would most certainly make you believe otherwise.

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Might be standards and practices of certain networks, but 4Kids does go overboard on a lot of these kinds of things... Children's TV today isn't all that tame, but 4Kids would most certainly make you believe otherwise.

Standards and practices are a complete joke in my opinion because what is and isn't appropriate is up to personal interpretation. If I were control of the networks, their would be very little boundaries on content, and if you find it offensive, then just turn off the tv instead of forcing your views onto other viewers by having the networks follow your standard.

example: The game Homefront absolutely disgusts me and offends me greatly. I will never play it. But do you see me telling stores not to sell it? No because I believe people should have a choice, and if they enjoy the game, then let them.

Mohawk52 wrote:

Never heard of One Piece? I should have added "solely for kids" to be more specific. My bad.

One Piece isn't really aimed at any different audience than Yu-Gi-Oh, since they ran in the same magazine after all. And surprisingly Pocket Monsters airs at a late night primetime in Japan while One Piece airs on weekend mornings, so make that what you will. Outside the occasional shoujo like Doremi and Tokyo Mew Mew, their stuff is all shounen anime.

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Were there any? I mean I know the Japanese are a bit more liberal, but that seems too extreme even by their standards there. Shocked

Well, one recurring joke in the original is Takeshi would ask girls if they were 18 yet, or him saying he'll have fun with them once they turn 18 or in "X amount of years", where X is the amount of years they'll turn 18. Basically some formulation of a joke involving them being of legal age. Actually I recall other old men using that line as well. One time one of the characters of the day was a pervy old man who said that to Kasumi in an episode because they broke something of his and he wanted them to make it up to him. She freaks out and instead she offers to work part time to pay it off, or more specifically, Satoshi and Takeshi will work it off for her.

Yu-Gi-Oh!, well, one of the early episodes of Duelist Kingdom was about how Anzu became friends with Yugi and Jounouchi. spoiler[ Yugi and Jounouchi go to a burger place to eat and find Anzu working there, she freaks out because in Japan high school students usually aren't allowed to get jobs since it'll affect their academic studies. She threatens them when she brings them their food, but they say they wont tell anyone and ask her why she needs a job. She tells them about her dream to grow up to be a dancer and is saving up money so she can travel to America to go to a dance school in New York. The next day she gets a note in her locker with a picture of her in her work uniform which says to meet them in the gym storage shed after school if she doesn't want her secret exposed. She goes thinking it's Yugi and Jounouchi breaking their promise to her on her but when she gets there she finds her Gym teacher with a video camera who tells her to keep her mouth shut and do what he says if she doesn't want to get expelled. He then starts film her breasts and up her skirt and she tries to run away but he grabs her and she bites him before he punches her in the face and throws her against a wall but Dark Yugi shows up to save her before he can stick it in by challenging him to a Penalty Game and Mind Crushing him, and since then she's been Yugi's friend.]

Dagon123 wrote:

When people complain that 4kids has bad dubs, what they are really saying is "I'm frustrated that its edited, so by default its bad". If you can honestly tell me that Eric Stuart, Dan Green and Veronica Taylor are bad actors, hell most of the actors who work in New York, are bad, you need your ears checked and your expectations altered

I won't say they're bad voice actors in general, but I will say they were either bad in those specific performances or were just plain unfitting for the rolls in general. Dan Green's Yugi and Dark Yugi for example was atrocious. It was way too deep and hammy and he came off sounding like a bad superhero parody act, like something out of Superfriends or Adam West Batman-era, which is the complete opposite of what the original is like.

And.. 4Kids did Yu-Gi-Oh a favor? I'm not sure I can take you seriously if you truly believe that. No matter how you feel about the show itself, a statement like that is just silly and nothing deserves being 4Kidsified.

kaiser11492 wrote:

PurpleWarrior13 wrote:

Might be standards and practices of certain networks, but 4Kids does go overboard on a lot of these kinds of things... Children's TV today isn't all that tame, but 4Kids would most certainly make you believe otherwise.

Standards and practices are a complete joke in my opinion because what is and isn't appropriate is up to personal interpretation. If I were control of the networks, their would be very little boundaries on content, and if you find it offensive, then just turn off the tv instead of forcing your views onto other viewers by having the networks follow your standard.

example: The game Homefront absolutely disgusts me and offends me greatly. I will never play it. But do you see me telling stores not to sell it? No because I believe people should have a choice, and if they enjoy the game, then let them.

I 100% agree.

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I just find they don't list much.. random episode I looked at, the list doesn't mention Takeshi being a creeper in the original where he asks a girl if she's 18 yet and saying how he'll have some fun with her when she turns 18. Also I remember in the original Satoshi comes up with a strategy to beat the Frontier Brain's pokemon, but the dub removes it and just has him shout generic 'don't give up Pikachu' lines which also isn't mentioned... actually this episode has nothing listed for dub edits at all which is pretty untrue, so yeah. There's a lot they're missing.

The site probably is missing some stuff(by all means add to it) but I suspect what you would call a change or difference wouldn't be what they categorize as edits. The site serves it's purpose just fine and is a good place to go to for general Pokemon info. It's not going to be full out comparisons between the original version and the English dub because the site has other information it is trying to cover as well.

Why can't 4Kids die all ready!

You know i find it funny that many legitimate anime companies are sinking into the ground, yet it seems almost impossible to finish off 4kids.

Why are so many of them dying while they are still standing?

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