Forum - View topicINTEREST: Idol Fined 650,000 Yen for Dating Contract Violation
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CooperRC
Posts: 22 |
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The real blame for all this lies with the idol fans. They are the one's that stop supporting idols when they are no longer "pure".
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Kai99
Posts: 89 |
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I did not say anything about how she shouldn't face consequences for her actions. My argument is against the idea that a fifteen year old should be set to the same standards as an adult in terms of decision making, which was made early in the thread. The argument for brain development IS a legit one, as even though the brain continues to develop until the age of 24, you have to keep in mind the word "development". I wouldn't compare a 5 year old to a fifteen year old. Two different stages of development. And the teen years are specifically pointed out in studies done on how it is very natural for them to not consider the consequence of their actions. Also, here is another truth about teen brains.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/teenage-brain1.htm Again, something specific to teens not shared with children or adults. Should she face consequences? Yes. Do I think she should get all of the blame. No. She young, foolish, who, from what she stated, had no idea what kind of industry she was getting into and did not realize how important it was to appear "pure". Which is what I expect from a teen. Was she given a stern warning on not dating? Hard to say since she herself did not see it as a big deal. It might very well be that the girls were told that any romance must be done behind closed doors and never in public to keep up appearances, and she was unlucky enough to be caught. It also could be that she was one of those very foolish teenagers who were told not to do something, but decided to do it anyway because what harm could it really do. But again, age is a factor in decision making skills and why a teen should not have been under such a contract in the first place. So let me make myself clear. Yes, I agree that she should face consequences for going against the contract, but I also believe that she should not have been given the contract to sign in the first place. The reason WHY she is in trouble is wrong. This idea of purity and the idol where the idol can't even date, needs to be change. But, in my opinion, the only way it will change is the idols themselves finally taking a stand and fight against this "purity" clause and argue for that right. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5847 Location: Virginia, United States |
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The idol fans are the ones supporting the industry. They are supporting the industry for the image, not the singing, and not the dancing. The Image. If you cannot maintain that image, the sole reason you were recruited and hired for, you have no value in that industry. There are plenty of pop stars and music groups in Japan. Idols are completely different than those.
They will be easily replaced by other girls, that are willing to make the sacrifices necessary for fame. This is true for any country. She is in trouble because she broke her written contract, wasted her company's money that was spent training her to be an idol, and got her co-workers laid off. |
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Hoppy800
Posts: 3331 |
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Supporting idols just for their image? While true, that's sad and pathetic and probably a sign of mental illness in adults, this is ok as a child though. A real fan would support them for their talent and true personality. That needs to change for the sake of idols and the fan's sanity.
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5847 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Not sure you actually understand the industry. They are not hired for their talent, they are hired to maintain an image that their fans will love. Any real talent in the singing and dancing department is just a bonus. I would consider any fan, who is willing to spend hundreds of dollars on their favorite idol, to be a real fan. When it comes to fandom, Japan has the west beat. |
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Hoppy800
Posts: 3331 |
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What I'm saying is just because agencies are hiring idols for their image instead of talent doesn't mean it's right, same with the fans supporting them just for their image, it's not right and not healthy. There are some things that just cannot be defended despite being "just the way it is" or "it's profitable". |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5847 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Hoppy800
I haven't seen anyone defending the industry. Explained yes, but not defending. But not one person has put forward a workable solution. Because there isn't one, but time perhaps. The fans want their pure and untouched idols. The industry wants to rake in the money. The girls want their fame and their screaming fans. All the classic ingredients for a Faustian contract, as has been said before. Do you really think those girls are going to care about what a bunch of western fans think, who want to deny them their dreams. And if it is okay for Americans to sign their lives away for a chance at stardom or service in the military, who are we to deny the Japanese that. |
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Ali07
Posts: 3333 Location: Victoria, Australia |
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It is an interesting point you have made, but is it really as simple as that? One would assume that, the importance of an idol's image would be drilled into them. Hell, just the mention of "not allowed to date" would always turn into a discussion with my friends during my teen years. I do wonder how hard the concept of "if you date, you lose your job" is to grasp. It just seems like something that, when faced with it, would easily become a topic of conversation...not only at home, but with friends and/or their fellow idol members. As you showed, the pleasure/reward part of the brain is well developed during the teen years. Could this simply be one of those instances where a teen has known there are consequences of an action...yet they still take the risk, and are then caught? I know that in my teen years I did things, knowing full well what kind of punishment I may get, on the chance that I wouldn't be caught. Yes, the ramifications she has faced are much bigger than I ever did/would have. But, without knowing what happened during their training, discussions, and the contract signing, what she stated in court does not (to me) come off as a statement said due to having no prior knowledge. Could she have know the full ramification of her actions? Maybe not. She could've known that she'd put her job at jeopardy, potentially she could've thought that she'd get a slap on the wrist for a "first time offense" if caught. The dissolving of the group is something that could've come out of left field. Did she know that there'd be some sort of consequence for her actions? The potential is there. While not stated in the article, I highly doubt that she went to the hotel room with management or a member of staff. But, it does seem like they found out about it after the fact. Usually, that'd mean that she went without anyone knowing. And why would you sneak out? Well, I'm sure we all know the answer to that. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5847 Location: Virginia, United States |
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@Ali07
That isn't something relegated only to teenagers. Adults do things and say things all the time that get them fired or put in jail, and usually for the same reasons and excuses that you just gave. I am just guessing, but I don't think management caught them. I'd bet money that it was her fans that outed her. Nothing worse than a fan betrayed. Gotta keep those pedestals standing if you are an idol. |
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Rensie
Posts: 251 |
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I agree with the judge, correct sentence.
When you sign a contract you have to respect it, if you disagree with the contract don't sign it in thefirst place and find another job. More aggravating, she destroy the whole group. Morally right or not don't matter, when you get a job you know what to do and you have to respect the rules, and this is valid for everything. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14784 |
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The age of majority in Japan is 20.
The courts are allowed to weigh in morality and/or equity in validation of parts of contracts. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Ali07
Posts: 3333 Location: Victoria, Australia |
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True, it isn't. But, since this discussion is about a teenager, I address it as such. Was just interested in what that poster has been stating. And thought I'd just point out how I viewed things. |
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ShawnOfTheDeadz
Posts: 5 |
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Just to interject, while I am no expert in civil law, in common law (UK, USA, Canada) someone above the age 13 would be equally liable. Minors must be held to contracts or else businesses would not do business with them. People often forget that every purchase you make at a store, restaurant, etc, is a form of contract. What most people are aware of though is that minors have more protection to protect them from potentially manipulative and harmful contracts. In this case, however, it would not protect them (in western society) because the decision factor is essentially whether or not the contract is necessary or unnecessary to that individuals way of life. As being an idol, explicitly being single has been a long standing tradition. It is easily argued that it is part of being an idol. She both knew the rules, and what was involved in being and living a life of an idol and violated it. She is also fined the amount of money the company had invested in her in order to recoup their costs, not some absurd amount for "breaking the law."
It is also worth noting that the courts were lenient in her fine, as she (I believe it was mentioned) the reason the group broke up. She could have potentially been sued for the entire amount of money the company had invested into the group. As she wasn't, the company actually still comes away with a large loss as they probably won't be able to recoup the money they invested in the other idols. All taken in, I actually feel this was a fair decision on the Japanese courts' part. ... The whole concept on the idol industry, and what it requires to be one is a whole other story however. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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They don't just "stop supporting" them. They turn on them, often rather viciously. They feel *entitled*, as if the idol is in a relationship with *them*, which leads to feelings of jealousy and betrayal. The whole relationship is built on irrationality and delusion, which is explicitly encouraged by those who control the "entertainment" industry over there. The girls aren't being punished for not being pure, they're being punished for damaging the delusion that has been fostered in all those otaku who use idols to avoid looking at the truth of their own lives and their own society. |
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