Forum - View topicANN Book Club: Texhnolyze.
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Ow, what a loaded question. The best definition of freedom I've ever come across was from watching the movie Out of Africa. It explained to me for the first time in my life that freedom isn't all its cracked up to be. True freedom means being beholden to nothing and to no one, to be barred by neither society nor geography nor responsibility. It's a truly difficult status to achieve, and once achieved it's very lonely. Love may set you free, but it isn't freedom unless you can get up and leave that person at the snap of your fingers. It's interesting thing to think about who the freest character in the series is. At first, I want to say Ichise; he seems to have no ambition, he is one of the few in Lux to ever visit the surface world and thus he is able to travel easily between worlds, and he loves no one (possibly not even himself). But then I think about the strong pull which Lux has over him, and the fatalistic nature of the series which seems to draw him onward to his own perdition. Perhaps Ran is? Maybe because Ran can see the future, rather than being trapped she is set free because her actions have no consequences. She can do whatever she wants knowing that it will all turn out the same. But that's not exactly freedom, either. |
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halfadeckshort
 Posts: 49 |
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I'm not so sure that Yoshii tried to affect change above. And without weapons, how is one to defend themselves against those who would take away the possibility of living and prospering? I don't think that it's as black and white as you state. And there is more to the reason why the surface is dying beyond apathy. C'mon final episode set.
You don't believe the surface dwellers are free, but how do they look at it? I think that the Theonormals thought/think that they achieved freedom, even though you (and I) don't think that they did.
I don't mind being wrong if people are willing to discuss their opinions. 
But we aren't given a timeline, and the statue is somewhat similar to the Winged Victory of Samothrace in a twisted way. There are other things I'll have to say about the erection of the statue when we get through the last episode set. One thing I find interesting is the pedestal of the statue... remind you of anything? What about the water?
Remember though, that this is the Theonormals' statue, produced from their world view. Or is it?
True, but even so I think that he represents potential.
I think that Ran is ultimately bound by her visions, making her one of the characters with the least amount of freedom in the series. As usual, more on that later... that theory I promised to share those long weeks ago. |
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Sure there could be more reasons why the surface world isn't functioning any longer, and I'm sure you'll be happy to explain them  . As for the weapons thing, I think you misunderstood--I was simply using that as a metaphor to demonstrate why choosing your own method of suicide is not freedom. I wasn't commenting about violence.
I don't think that it matters what their own perspective of themselves is; I think the statue is meant to be a symbol and a hint to the viewer about the truth. The sad thing about the surface dwellers is that they don't have any illusions. Even if they are delusional enough to believe that they achieved true freedom, they have accepted their ultimate fate.
That might have been true if we'd seen some kind of change perpetuated by his actions, but he's just sort of a rogue full of anger. An anomaly is just the right word for him; there's no evidence that anyone else from the surface remotely acts that way. If someone does by the end of the series then that's different and there may be hope for them, but for now it seems the "doom and gloom" fate of the surface stands. |
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halfadeckshort
Posts: 49 |
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Lol. HellKorn will probably beat me to it, and be more eloquent to boot, but I'll try. And I did misunderstand your meaning, but Yoshii's death wasn't suicide. But I don't exactly think he was free, either. I'll dazzle you with my interpretation soon (or not, ahem ), but I will say it is linked to Ran.
I'm going to stay quiet on this one for a bit, but I don't think that their perspective should be entirely dismissed.
I'm not so sure about that, based on an important exchange in ep 20.
See my comment above. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Preface: A lot of what I say here comes with the idea that I can't fully explain until the series is over.
That's part of it, but there's still limitations placed upon a person in that condition.
Disagree here. While not in the traditional sense that a lot of people associate with, Ichise most certainly does have compassion.
The series is fatalistic, though not quite to the degree which you describe.
Ran's actions are not beyond consequence, either.
Kano specifically refers to the 100 year history of Lux in episode 16. I also take Saginuma's statements to imply that they had the only started treating the raffia flow as a merely formality some years ago as they realized that they no longer need it.
You referring to spoiler[it being "rooted" to the pedestal?]
Uh, water?
Hence the "partially so."
Mm... Wait for discussion of episode 20. |
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halfadeckshort
Posts: 49 |
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I wasn't clear, I meant a timeline for the statue, as no one in the series refers to it, and we only see it once.
More the shape itself, though your comment leads to another interesting reading of the statue as a symbol of the series.
It's a fountain, after all. http://www.halfadeckshort.com/images/uploads/NDVD_963.jpg I'll explain soon. |
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Golly gee, Bro, I gave ya about a week extra to make a post for the second-to-last set of episodes! Ah well... looks like I can't complain. I figured I might as well put everyone out of their misery and go ahead and let everyone start watching and discussing the final three episodes: Episodes 20-22: "Hades," "Encephalopathy," & "Myth." Just remember to definitely NOT read this thread before you do so (for those who haven't already seen this set), because it's much better that you don't spoil yourself. Might as well add that from now and on you don't need me to update so that you can discuss "final thoughts" because that's sort of the point of the last episode and all. So don't hold back! As for me, I'd like to respond to some things mentioned earlier, but I have to leave here in just a few minutes and will be getting back later tonight. Happy discussing! 
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Oh wow, were you waiting on me this whole time and that's why you didn't update it for so long? Sorry about that!  Probably should have at least let you all know I did indeed finish the third episode like, more than a week ago... That and I probably should have been more clear that you didn't have to wait for me to discuss anything before you moved on, because chances are I still might not really be up to series discussion (and it looks as if I indeed still am not...... sorry!). So it's all good.
Well we'll see what I'll be up for discussion wise after I watch these final episodes then. Not sure when, but sometime, although I'm not sure it really matters since this is the final set and everything. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Gonna watch this on Sunday and do my usual "coverage" then, with a few miscellaneous thoughts. After that it's open season for me.
Just a few things that viewers should pay close attention to when watching these final episodes: - What do we see at the train station in episode 20, and what does this reveal to us? - What does Doc reveal about Ichise in episode 20? - What does the title of episode 21, "Encephalopathy," mean? - A lot of incredibly important bits delivered by Kano in these final episodes: pay attention to whom he is talking to, as well as what he's specifically referring to. Will answer a lot of questions that have been raised in the past few episode sets. - What are the last things that Ichise does and sees before the series ends? - The ending theme for episode 22 has lyrics intertwined with the narrative: think about from whose viewpoint this can be taken from. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Well, I'd like to say I'm shocked at the lack of discussion, but this is hardly a precedent...
Anyhow, try to bear with me on some details here, as I'm still hazy on a few things. I've been feeling a bit burnt out on dissecting anime for the past half-year (Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze are enough of a load by themselves). Regardless, hope this provides incentive for discussion to spark up again: Episode 20 - Ichise is in the hallway of a hotel and enters Doc's room. She's sitting idly on the bed, seemingly adapting a similar disposition that the other surface-dwellers have. (There's a particular shot that's lifted from another Frank Lloyd Wright painting. halfadeckshort will probably post it.) She openly laments the illusion of the surface world being shattered: she believed that the people of the Class could someday return freely, yet what she is greeted with are mere ghosts. She also remarks that it was her belief that texhnolyzation could ultimately push mankind forward, but the very people they thought they were making it for have no use for it. Ichise remarks that those living here are no better than those of the dead, and Doc even states that this is Hades. Ichise states that he's going to return to Lux; Doc reveals that she's resigned herself to become one of the dead. Ichise leaves her room and the hotel. - Sakimura sees Yoshii... What follows is a significant hint to the theory that halfadeckshort has proposed to me (as well as the ensuing scene with Ichise and the two ghosts). Yoshii remarks to Sakimura that he'd love to go down to Lux, and is surprised that he is not the only one who feels this way. He is envious of Sakimura for applying for the job. Sakimura closes his eyes as he states that it wasn't his wish to do so at first; when he opens them again, Yoshii is gone. - Anyone else think that the sequence with Ichise stepping out of the hotel and walking around, cross-cut with Sakimura dealing with the train, is one of the best scenes in the series? The music in the background, coupled with the visuals, timing... Well, I like it. - Ichise encounters two ghosts, one of which remark that Ichise is a surprisingly visible ghost. When Ichise retorts, the same one is shocked that Ichise is alive. They reveal that these are memories of the past, and the people are essentially living through them. If these entities can live idly like this, then he believes that they can also be considered living just as Ichise is. Ichise doesn't seem to agree as he raises a gun to one of the ghost's head. - Sakimura tries to inform his boss of potential danger with the train approaching, though his efforts appear futile. - As Ichise is getting his back-up refilled, a ghost asks him what his name is. He gives it, and upon being asked if he has a family name, Ichise says he doesn't have one. The ghost states that that is liberation, not being bound by your name. Ichise also makes the observation that even here it isn't entirely different from Lux; there aren't many people down there who are alive, either. They both invite each other to stay and/or visit in their respective birthplaces before Ichise departs for the train station. - Sakimura fails to stop the train, even when closing the barriers. Ichise arrives there, and is met by Toyama. His former Organo companion asks why he'd want to go back to Lux, as it is practically impossible for anyone to travel to or from the city now. Ran is likely captured by Kano now, and Onishi is in no better of a position. Toyama then kills the other Shapes; he and Ichise fight, leaving the latter as the eventual victor. Just before he dies, Toyama says, "Thank you, brother." - This is intercut with Doc stating that what drew her to Ichise was his eyes -- they're the eyes of the first people who were put underground. She also makes an important remark about being infertile -- I'll try to tackle this next time (if halfadeckshort doesn't; I'll do so anyway, though), but there's a few other important connections here in regards to the Class. Her closing remarks are about putting her cells into the bio-circuit of Ichise's texhnolyzed limbs in hopes of advancing him, but now she won't know if she succeeded or not. The last shot is of a poll of water escaping from the bathroom, hinting that she has commits suicide. - Ichise then comes to face Saginuma again -- this time, the leader is in his true form, no longer using any illusion to represent himself. His legs are shown with supports, having gone through a process of augmentation rather than texhnolyzation. (Also a possible visual clue: there are three characters in Lux who have had both legs texhnolyzed. Those are Onishi, Goto and Kano. Hm...) He reveals that there were a certain kind of people sent down to Lux in order to protect the Theonormals, though there was likely another reason, too. His people's way of life is only on the verge of collapsing, and they lack the desire to move forward to the next evolutionary stage. What their grandparents' generation had planned didn't come to fruition, but that no one could have seen this happening. Ichise says they all were wrong, and only walks away when Saginuma extends an invitation to stay with the Theonormals as there's no feasible way for one to go back and forth between the surface world and Lux now. - After meeting with Sakimura, who reveals that there is a way to get back down to Lux (though one that's very limited and likely a one-way ticket), Ichise then sees the man who appeared in the previous episode and earlier here: his father, Ikuse. Ichise's anger had built towards his father with his mother's death, and he'd never been able to overcome it. Ichise tells him that he is sorry for holding such anger towards him, and that he didn't know that he was framed. He asks for his father's forgiveness as the latter fades away. (This is a particularly important scene, for two reasons: 1) It reinforces a certain theory about the surface world. 2) Because of what's actually going on in this scene, it also strengthens the purpose of forgiveness. There's a really, really touching story about a man named Andre Smith, who forgave the murderer of his son, that encapsulates this message in real life. Read about it here.) - Sakimura lowers Ichise via a crane down the hole that Yoshii walked in episode one as the episode ends. Episode 21 - Episode opens with a meta-fictional scene that lifts itself from the documentary that Ichise and Doc see in episode 19. There is a monster inside man that can even horrify those that contain it. Those that displayed such bestial qualities were banished to Lux. Yet there is one born in Lux, Ichise, who both hates and loves the monster inside of him. With his "second mother," Doc, Ichise ascended to the surface world, but discovered that those there also simply wait for their death like those in Lux. It can be considered a heaven or a hell, depending on how one wishes to view a fading, dying world. Ichise could only descend back into the purgatory of man's resting place, Lux, for reasons confirmed in these final two episodes... - There's a very interesting statement that Kano makes after the "documentary" finishes -- his first lines of the episode, specifically. He states, "The information an animal requires does not exist within its ecology. It exists in the affordances of its environment, outside its ecology." The subtitles use affordance, a term I've not run across outside of TEX. I'd be interested in others' take on the term -- want to give it a go, halfadeckshort (or anyone, really)? - Ichise continues his descent, and sees one of Ran's flowers outside his vision. When he looks to confirm it, it's no longer there. Also, even though he is getting closer to the Obelisk, his texhnolyzed limbs are also failing him, and he cannot figure out why. - Another cut to Kano, this time revealed talking to Ran. He calls her Theoria and asks what she is looking at. She states that she will not be his crystal ball. Kano is fine with this; she is, after all, a result of Lux. - Ichise reaches the bottom and is outside Gabe. Masks and bodies are littered throughout the area. He encounters Goto, who is having troubling moving about because his two texhnolyzed legs have stopped working. He informs Ichise that the daylight has just about run out of Lux, and only the light on the Hill is left. The engineer from episode six is echoed about the people's eye color changing again just like the last time the lights went out in Lux. He is shown to have been killed. Ichise then takes a train car (or whatever it's called) to go back to Lux. - The Elder of Gabe is shown floating down a ravine, remembering that even though their people were forced underground, the people of Gabe attempted to create something substantial out of it at first. However, many lives have been needlessly lost, and the Elder wonders where a person's soul is to go when they're already in hell. Later, we're cut to him again, as he states that even though they've were deemed evil and inhuman, they have just as much right to live as the others. And even though they're born just the same as the others, their fate consists of being dropped into the ravine to be reborn as Raffia. He wonders if that's their only purpose in life, shortly before thinking that the green balls of light that rise are forgiving for not protecting the Seer. - A group of un-texhnolyzed men are drinking at a bar, with an abused Hirota essentially with them. They've also been raiding alcohol from the Class. Onishi comes in, kills two of them while the third one escapes. Hirota begs Onishi to kill her; in his mind, he hears Ran pleading him to follow through. With hesitation, Onishi does. - To the amalgamation of colors again: Kano wonders why Ran is not speaking with him. She asks him why he's destroying the city. He says that he's not, because to destroy Lux would be as though he were killing himself. He does not know why his sister would think he'd do that, and she claims that she is not his sister. - Shinji gives Onishi a bit of history on the Rakan -- it was headed by himself, Hal and another guy named Tomo, who eventually turned coward -- before telling him that he's off to see the light of the Hill. Onishi asks if there's anything that will come out of killing the Class, and Shinji replies that he won't know until he does it. He feels that it's fitting to do the opposite of what Onishi is doing. Shinji arrives at the Class, going crazy as he shoots the remaining members there. (Also, interesting to note: every single Class member we see has red eyes. The two exceptions to this are Doc and Kano.) He says that when he was younger he wanted to become one of them because he thought they were great people -- until he saw Kano. He then encounters a pool of Raffia, where numerous Class members are bathing in. Shocked at this, he shots them all and is eventually killed by Zushi, who commits suicide after doing his duty. - Ran asks Kano if he is trying to make everyone as insane as he is. He wonders what she could have seen to think like that; if anything, it is the insane citizens of Lux, who are like Homunculi ravaging his mind. He also reveals that he is the product of a line of men having intercourse with their mothers and sisters. He was created to serve as the nerve-center of Lux. - Ichise arrives in Lux. He spots Ran, who is slowly walking away from in the direction of the Obelisk. He calls out to her, telling the girl to stop. He informs Ran that he's been to the surface and, while it's not a place he thinks he could truly live in, he's wants to take her there -- to a place where there's no killing. She stops and turns around. Ichise tells her that whenever he was in trouble, she was there to help him. He feels that he must come back and protect her. She fades away into the distance, and Ichise arrives at the Obelisk where... - ... Onishi is, talking to the Voice of the City, Ran. He has only began to fully appreciate his legs now that they have stopped working. Ran asks him if he is still of a sound mind to keep on living. Onishi doesn't know. He wants to know what she wants to do, and she answers, "Kill me." She drove the city insane and her death must be done as punishment for the act. He complies as men surrounding the area move in to kill him. The former Organo leader declares that if he is to choose between living in insanity and death, he will choose destruction. Ichise yells at him as Onishi drives his sword into the Obelisk, eliciting blood from the cracks. He smiles just before the men open fire, killing him. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Episode 22 [END]
- The episode opens with a film called "Mutism," the only legible words throughout -- everything else is garbled and vaguely recognizable, as most of the text throughout the series is. The survivors of Lux fought against the Shapes in order to protect Ran. However, they fail to do so, and she is captured. - At the end of this, we're shown Kano -- the "King" as he is referred to, and it's also stated that he had a hand in driving the citizens insane -- gazing at the city of Lux atop the Obelisk. Check out his gaze when he's surveying the battle, and then as he looks up to see the lights fade. What's with that expression? Sorrow? Regret? Disappointment? - Kano also has the light operator killed, and effectively causes blackness to spread over Lux. Ties into the narration made in episode six, and also matches the description of him causing the people to go insane. (Though this is not entirely on his shoulders.) - It cuts back to the ending of the previous episode, with a slight addition: Onishi realizing that the Voice of the City he has been hearing for years is Ran. The same sequence as before is repeated, and all that's left of Onishi are his texhnolyzed legs, blood and pieces of torn clothing. - Ichise is obviously distraught over this. One of the men recognizes him as having been part of the Organo. They begin to surround him. He tells Ran that he has to do it again. He then goes crazy and takes everyone by surprise, beating a lot of them down. One man finally is able to compose himself and shoots Ichise in the shoulder. Our hero falls to his knees. He stares at his texhnolyzed limbs, asking if they are his arm and leg. There's then a quick flash to Doc's lab as he pleads for them to move, and he's able to move once more. The men are stunned and unable to attack, and he finishes them off. He then looks at his hand once it's over as the backdrop once again moves to Doc's lab. (I'll let halfadeckshort explain his idea about this.) - Ichise moves on through the streets, his shoulder bleeding quite badly. He meets Kohakura, who is rooted like every other Shape in Lux. Ichise asks him if he wants to die, and Kohakura bawks at the suggestion: those that are Shaped essentially live near-immortal lives. They will continue to live on in their minds. (Also, the official translation has Kohakura wishing that he had been able to convince Onishi to join him. The fansubs state that he wish he hadn't turned against Onishi and joined Kano. Dunno which one to go with.) Ichise takes a power supply and goes on to the Opera House. Kohakura ends his piece by stating that he once heard that Lux is the 9th Annex of the Repeating Hell. - As Kano and Ran watch on, Ichise goes trudges through the dead streets of Lux. Then, in one of the most touching scenes in the series (only outdone by the final sequence, by my mark), Ichise begins to talk to Ran. He tells her that he's changed, and it's not just because of his texhnolyzed limbs -- it's because he's met her. Yet in spite of this, Ichise is still doing the very same things he's always done just to survive. Ran then appears, walking along with him at a slight distance. "Does that mean whatever I do, doesn't change no matter what? That isn't so, is it?" Ichise asks. "Have you changed because you met me?" is his final question -- Ran only disappears. - Ichise arrives at the Opera House. On the stage is Kano with a small model of the Obelisk. (Hm...) Kano sees Ichise, realizing that he is the one whom Theoria was watching. Ichise asks Kano where Ran is; the Class leader responds that she will never again be able to voice what she sees. Ichise then questions why he did all of this, and did not go up to the surface with his soldiers. Kano states that it was meaningless -- the promise of revenge for the Luxians only served to entice others. He already knew that the surface world was dying out. He wanted to see how much texhnolyzation could change a human's consciousness -- hence why he held contact with Doc (and eventually abandoned her when satisfactory results weren't being produced). He then states that the Luxians themselves weren't forced to come down here. The human species is merely returning to where it came, coming full circle. (The fansubs don't agree with this official translation. Their version states it's not an accident that they returned here -- they're returning to their roots.) Ichise still wants to know where Ran is. Kano does not answer, and states that because he expanded his mind through texhnolyzation, he came to realize that Lux is only inside his mind. That the Luxians have genes no humans should have is a delusion. He became free of such limitations upon merging/having intercourse/becoming one with Lux (dunno what's the correct rendering here). Those rooted must endure a long passage of time to evolve -- their bodies are prepared for that. He therefore concludes that he is the most sane of all. We're at last shown Ran: her head has been decapitated from her body and she has been essentially Shaped, though she does not go through the same process. Instead, her head is placed on the statue that Kano has continually referred to as his sister. At finally seeing this, Ichise is enraged. Kano states that she has killed her mind and can no longer be able to serve as his eyes. Noticing Ichise's infuriated state, Kano asks what he's afraid of. To kill him, the one who is saner than anyone else, is to acknowledge one's own insanity until their death. With a face contorted in pained loss and unflinching anger, Ichise pulls his texhnolyzed arm back and then punches Kano's head right off his body. - The final sequence begins, with the ending theme being replaced with a new, titled "Walking Through the Empty Age." Ichise is leaning against a pillar and looks down, his arm encircled as though it's holding something. A sort-of jump-cut reveals that carried Ran's corpse earlier. He goes down to the Raffia mines to give her a proper send-off -- a burial, if you will -- where she becomes Raffia. The scene then returns to Ichise looking over the city, seemingly satisfied. He then lies completely down and has his arm create an image of a flower. He looks at the hologram and, at last, smiles as he closes his eyes, dying at peace. The credits finally roll as the scene then cuts to an overhead view, fading to black. Miscellaneous - I'll admit it: I still cry during the final scene. Texhnolyze is one of three anime series to hit me hard when re-watching it, the other two being Wolf's Rain and Haibane Renmei. - Ugh. Wish I knew and understood Japanese. Ugh. - I'll type up a "what-Texhnolyze-is-about" post in my next reply, probably. It won't be an essay, because frankly there's just way too much to cover and take in. My mind can't organize all of this into one streamlined piece of writing. - I'll also post the lyrics to two songs in my next post, one of which is "Walking Through the Empty Age." - Uh, if anyone has any idea how to tie together the bits about the Class lacking the ability to have children naturally, the bits about incest (which evokes the concept of royal blood lines trying to maintain their "purity"; I suspect this is largely because the Class did not want to taint themselves with those in Gabe and Lux), genes and eye colors, feel welcome to it. I have my own ideas, but it's hard to untangle them... - The music of this series is so damn good. I really, really, really wish that there could've been a third CD released, because there's a lot of great tracks uncollected. |
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halfadeckshort
Posts: 49 |
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It's a good scene... I don't think it tops Ichise's rise from the sewer interspersed with Yoshii and the train in episode 5 (that scene gives me chills, and boy do I wish that cello piece had been on one of the soundtracks), but it's still excellent. The editing in this series is awesome.
I think affordances in this context would refer to the opportunities/stimulii that are present in the environment. What Kano seems to be saying here is that the information an animal requires to survive/evolve is not found within the animal itself, it is the animal's interaction with its environment that determines how it will survive and grow. When Kano has the population of Lux shaped, he alters their means of accessing and interacting with their environment. By removing the body as a concern (removing the basic needs of food, sex, etc.) he liberates the mind from the ecology that most Luxians are fixated on and allows for a more direct interface with the environment itself (the rooting of the shapes in ep 22 is a literal representation of this).
The source of power for Texhnolyzed limbs, as stated at several different points in the series, is the Obelisk. When Ichise is on the surface he requires a supplemental power source in order for his limbs to function, but after he returns from the surface world we see that the Obelisk is no longer functioning as it was in the past: as HellKorn pointed out, Ichise's limbs, and the Texhnolyze limbs of all of the people in Lux, are failing. What we see in the flash to Doc's lab is that Ichise's limbs are now pulling power from Doc's lab instead of the Obelisk. It is my thought that Doc's lab has a direct connection to the Raffia pool, the source of light and power at the Class fortress, and that is where the power in her lab comes from. (As an aside, I think that this same connection is what allows Kano to wipe out her data after her unsuccessful bid to present her research to the class in the episode where Doc basically kidnaps Ichise and drives out to the fortress). The key to Ichise's ability to access the power in Doc's lab is his limbs, which carry Doc's cells in them. Recall in episode 3 when Doc goes to get the water for Ichise, and we see what looks like a retinal scan occur before the compartment opens. It is apparent that Doc uses her genetic signature/identity to lock the lab, and it is through her cells that Ichise is able to unlock the power for his limbs.
I had a hard time with this scene when I first watched the series. Not because I thought it was difficult to understand, but because I wanted so much for Ichise to be able to save her in the end. All the growth that he had gone through, all the things that he had overcome, I felt that he had earned the right to save someone other than himself. I knew, deep down, that this wasn't about him saving her, and I knew that this wasn't going to end with a Hollywood style happy ending, but seeing Ran's head on the statue was like a punch to the gut. I had to put it on pause and walk away for a bit before continuing on. And though it wouldn't bring Ran back, I took no small amount of pleasure in the fact that Ichise knocked Kano's head off. |
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halfadeckshort
Posts: 49 |
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There is too much to discuss to try and do it all at once, so I'm going to put a couple things out there before I come back and talk about the things I haven't tied up in my earlier posts (like the relationship between Ichise and Doc). So... I'd like to welcome you to HAlfaDEckShort's house of speculation. Past this point are a couple more of the theories that HellKorn mentioned above, as he had the good grace to listen to my half-baked ideas and provide excellent feedback. Many thanks to him for tolerating my craziness. And so....
Here's the shot from the beginning of episode 20 with Doc sitting on the bed: http://www.halfadeckshort.com/images/uploads/texvsmorningsun.jpg Yet another Hopper painting. I mentioned that there were other examples in the surface world, and these and other clues lead me to believe that the surface world may be a simulated, or virtual, environment. Why else would the very land conform to the images of a painting? One of the key hints in the series that suggests that the surface may be virtual is in something that Yoshii says to Shinji in episode 5. The two are talking about the surface and Shinji asks if there is anything there. Yoshii replies: "There is if you think so. There isn't if you don't." Before I fully address that quote however, I'd like to give a couple more pieces of evidence. One of those pieces is Mr. Saginuma himself. He appears as a little girl, and then a chair, and then in episode 20, when he speaks to Ichise immediately after Ichise's fight with Toyama, we see both his "ghostly" little girl form and his physical form in the same place at the same time. This leads me to believe that the people of the surface city aren't actually ghosts, but rather avatars of a sort, virtual projections of their will, that they use instead of their bodies. Due to their rejection of raffia and the inferior nature of their replacement limbs, it would make sense to me if they stayed in their life support systems and let their avatars roam the city until their physical bodies finally pass away. Following this, if the city's residents are virtual, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that the virtual environment could be influenced by the minds of those in the midst of it. When Ichise, Yoshii, and Doc arrive at the train station on the surface world they have to pass through a green barrier. What is the purpose of such a thing? It doesn't actually repel anything, as it wouldn't be that difficult to walk around the train station, and it doesn't make much sense to me that it is used for decontamination, unless the train station really isn't open to the sky. What if it's some kind of body scan to prepare the environment and the user for the "surface world?" Which brings me back to Yoshii's quote, which basically says that things on the surface are there if you think that they will be there, and so it is that the three travelers see what they want to see, or twisted reflections of what they want to see, when they visit the surface. When the three arrive at the government office, it appears to be completely abandoned, an unending forest of those lily pad/platform things - and it doesn't appear as if there is anyone under them, but after Sakimura "returns to work" we see desks with workers stretching out into the distance. The desks, the office, are what Sakimura expects to see, and the environment conforms to his notions. Sakimura also sees Yoshii, whom he killed with his own hands, Sakimura's guilt over the slaying bringing back the Yoshii he once worked with (notice that the "ghost" of Yoshii has two natural hands). Later on, Ichise runs into the ghost of his father or, as the narration for episode 21 says, "he met a ghost that he called his father." Either way, Ichise expected to see the ghost of his father in the land of the dead, and he did. Lastly, I think the childlike form of Mr. Saginuma is an expression of Doc's desires, her wish for children or her hope that there would be children on the surface, as she is the one who sees Mr. Saginuma first. The Theonormals have set up the surface to conform to a certain aesthetic that borrows from modern American painters and architects (the interior of the government building is taken from a Frank Lloyd Wright design for a SC Johnson Wax office), where they "live" virtual lives that are pale reflections of a true existence, whiling away the hours until they die. They see what they want to see, and little else (remember how Ichise had to force the ghost to acknowledge his existence), and I think that this same notion applies to those who visit the surface. I'm not sure how else to make sense of the surface world with its borrowed aesthetic and ghosts that aren't really ghosts. If someone else has an alternate theory, I'd love to hear it. Of course, this theory and any others on the surface world can be overridden by one that HellKorn has been providing evidence for throughout the series and this discussion thread. But I'm sure he'll be elaborating on that one shortly. And finally, the theory on Ran that I've been nattering on about for a while. Note that this only covers her through the first part of the series, but I think that it will help clarify things for later discussion: Ran's actions in the first half of the series can be a bit confusing. Given that her name means chaos, that isn't much of a surprise. She feels one way toward Ichise at certain points, encouraging his violence, and then seems to feel that opposite way a bit later on, running from the images of violence she sees around him. There has been some discussion that this change is related to the growth of her abilities as a seer, but I would argue that by the time we are introduced to Ran her abilities are already fully developed. I believe that she can see all the way through the end of the series, the end of her own life and Ichise's, from the very beginning. How then to make sense of her actions? One of the other meanings, or inflections, of Ran's name is "revolt" or "upheaval." It is my contention that Ran, through episode 10, does everything in her power to rebel against the future that she has foreseen, and it is only after her plan fails that her relationship with Ichise begins to change. Even though he was external to Lux, but more because he was external to Lux, Yoshii becomes the linchpin of Ran's plan to avert the future. She waits for him at the base of the stairs, knowing that he is coming. She leads him to Gabe, and then to Lux, giving him her word that she will not reveal his future to him or anyone else, thus guaranteeing that he would have freedom in Lux if he remained inconspicuous. She keeps Ichise from leaving the Rakan bar so that he would not run into Yoshii before he was able to spark the violence between the factions in the city. Later, knowing that Shinji would pull his gun on Yoshii, Ran brings Sakimura with her so that he would prevent Shinji from actually shooting Yoshii. She does all of these things fully aware of what she is doing, protecting Yoshii because he had the potential to do something in Lux that no one else could at the time, and that is kill a member of the Class. No one in Lux believes that they have anything to gain by going against the Class at this point in the series. Onishi and the Organo work with the Class to ensure the flow of Raffia and retain control of the city. Shinji, as rebellious as he wants to think he is, revealed to Yoshii that he wanted to join the Class. And indeed, when it comes down to it, he draws his gun on Yoshii to prevent him from shooting the Class representative. The rest of the Rakan follow Shinji for the moment. Kimata and the Union don't seem to have an agenda against the Class even though they skirmish with the Organo. Certainly there is no evidence to support the idea that they intend to invade the Class at any point. Gabe isn't a factor because they don't involve themselves with the Spectacles in Lux, and Ichise is out because he doesn't have an agenda against the Class at this point. These statements greatly simplify the situation in Lux, but it is made fairly clear that Yoshii is the only one in a position to kill a Class member at that point in the series. I believe that Ran thought an early war with the Class would have prevented Kano from carrying out his plan, and that the death of the Class representative would have precipitated this. It is for this reason that she attempted to protect Yoshii. As we see, however, Yoshii's plan to assassinate the Class member begins to fail due to the intervention of Onishi and Ichise, and Yoshii is killed without having fulfilled his "mission." It is after this that Ran begins to distance herself from Ichise and Lux, because she has lost any hope of affecting the future, saying "nothing changes" in episode 10, and again in episode 11. I think it is extremely telling that in episode 11, when the subject of the flowers that she has picked is brought up, she sees images of Sakimura and Yoshii in the water. Sakimura is still alive and Yoshii is dead, but I think that she says goodbye to both of them here, knowing that their time and chance to change things has passed. As has hers. It is this context that allows the disparity in her actions toward Ichise to make sense: moving from scenes where we see Ran encouraging Ichise's violence, saying "good boy, good boy" as he beat Ishii to death in episode 6, to scenes such as the one in episode 11 where we see her trying to run away from Ichise's violent future. The shift doesn't occur because of a change in what she has foreseen, or a change in Ichise himself, the change occurs because she loses the hope that future can be changed, and begins to despair. This is why she pronounces Ichise's doom, telling him that he will destroy everything, and that he will be all alone in the end, because she doesn't see the point in keeping it to herself any longer. She can't fight the future, so why not let others share the burden of her visions? As for her actions in the rest of the series... I think much of what she does later on makes sense based on what I've presented here. But I'll save that for another time and give someone else (yet another) chance to talk. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Actually will wait to post my summation of the series' message until others chime in. It's related to the question I asked rainbowcourage at the end of the last page -- won't say anymore than that. Want others to come to their own conclusions before I imprint my interpretation on theirs.
While it's far slower-paced and doesn't have as many cross-cuts (to my memory), I think you'd love Shigurui. Same director. Comes out in March by FUNimation.
That certainly makes sense. It kind of matches up with what the fansubs apparently say:
Before I learned what "affordance" meant, I took the line to mean that what is needed for an animal's growth is beyond their immediate environment. I think the translator's/adaptor's use of ecology threw me -- dunno why they didn't put "itself" in place of "ecology." Also, if you have any thoughts on this...
... feel free to share them.
Don't see how they're half-baked, as the series essentially purports your theory about the surface world: just insert "avatar" for every time the characters say "ghosts." And your assessment of Ran is the only one I've come across that accounts for all aspects of her character, though I've a few things to add here and then later in my next post...
Just want to clarify that the environment of the surface world isn't necessarily virtual, or at least much of it. Going by your point of the green scanner, Ichise and the others definitely see a bright, blue sky just as they exit the train. And when Ichise is on the tracks in episode 20, there's definitely green pastures around him. One arguably symbolic clue that appears early on in episode 19 is the storm cloud. It creates a disturbing, violent contrast to the otherwise crystal clear sky, perhaps indicating that the surface world is not as perfect, not as pristine as we initially perceive it to be.
I do wonder if they're mere virtual projections or not. One scene that comes to mind is Ichise talking with a Theonormal in the latter's household. The Theonormal is making coffee -- we see him pick up the pot, and a sound come from the action. So, then, there's two possible explanations for this: they're actually more solid and technologically advanced than simple holographic projections, or else they're projecting other elements onto the environment beyond human avatars -- leaning towards the latter, personally, as that easily molds to your theory.
I'd have to re-watch the scene again, but the impression I have is that those aren't replacement legs that Saginuma has. They seem to be very, very crude supports.
Oh, duh. "Hades." Ditto with Sakimura seeing Yoshii.
I'm not so sure if it's a desire to see children on the surface -- remember the remark about her infertility? I think she wants children herself, even though it's not possible. That's also a likely explanation for Doc's attachment to Ichise's limbs -- they carry her genetic code, after all.
Uh, I will? >_> Are you referring to one of my points about spoiler[Kano]?
I don't think it's a problem of running into Yoshii -- at that time, the Nietzschean "savior" is already running wild. She just seems to want to calm our hero down.
One crucial aspect of this "prediction" is the circumstances of who it's coming from. There's two times that Ran's abilities as a Seer are undercut: the very first episode, where the Elder of Gabe is NOT killed, and then when her plan to set up a revolt against the Class goes awry. The first is evidence enough that the future is not as unshakable as one might think -- the Elder even tells Yoshii as much. Yet how does this explain the fact that Ran's visions due begin to pass later on (she explicitly says in episode 11 that this is the case), and also Gabe's reluctance to fight against what they consider their fate? I'll explain later on in my analysis of what I perceive to be the main message of Texhnolyze, but consider these factors: Ran's fallibility, Onishi's reactions to the Voice of the City and Gabe essentially supplying weaponry to the ones who will eventually kill both them and Lux. |
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halfadeckshort
Posts: 49 |
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I'll have to check it out.
You're right, the fansub translation is a lot less ambiguous, and as ecology usually implies something beyond the organism itself it makes the line even more confusing. The only reason I can think of to use "ecology" in this manner is to emphasize the separation between body and mind. By presenting the body as an external part of the organism/animal, as opposed to the internal will or "soul," I think the line captures Kano's philosophy on the body very neatly. Of course, I may be reading too much into the translator's intent (I'd love to know what word they chose to translate as ecology), but it makes sense to me if read that way.
I'm thinking about this one, partially because of the "semi-incestuous" nature of Doc's relationship with Ichise. In a sense he's her son (this part of their relationship is also emphasized in the voice-over for the ep 21 intro), but they have also had sex on several occasions, and according to Doc's final monologue (emphasized more in the dub), he's carrying her child in a sense. Not that I think that their relationship is anything like the one that produced Kano, but it's another echo of such things in the series. I'll try to get my own thoughts in order and post them.
There's also the ghostly car that Ichise rides in, which leads me to think that it's quite possible that the avatars are projected over something more substantial... the avatars are facades, with all of the implications that the word carries.
You're right, they look more like some kind of exoskeleton. I was also thinking partly of Yoshii's arm though, recalling how he reacted to the suggestion that he was Texhnolyzed. Given the attitude the surface has toward artificial limbs, I'd imagine that Yoshii's limb replacement was done in an unsanctioned and probably painful manner... not something that most people would choose to go through.
I meant the possible reason the text is garbled throughout the series.
I should have explained it a bit more fully when I said that I think that her visions cover the whole timeline of the series. When she says "nothing changes" I think that she's looking at the future on the horizon instead of the one immediately before her. In episode one we're shown a vision of the future that does not come true (I can't help but wonder if her vision also applied to the Elder's unnatural death at the end of the series, however) and yet she claims later on that nothing changes. Obviously things do change, but I think the final result remains the same. That's part of the reason I feel so strongly about the breadth of her vision, because she is obviously not an idiot, and yet evidence that contradicts her "nothing changes" is laid out clearly for us. The citizens of Gabe are a different matter, as they seem to be actively engaged in making the future that Ran has seen come true. They supply Kano with weapons, for crying out loud. When I first watched the series, it was that fact that made me consider the idea that some of the information in Yoshii's book had come from Gabe. I don't think that anymore, but that's where I first started thinking that Yoshii was being guided/aided by someone from the underground. At any rate, Gabe in general works at cross purposes to Ran through at least the first part of the series. I think it is only the desire to protect Ran that brings about any significant change to the Elder's actions at the end of the series, though it's a matter of too little too late by that time. |
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