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INTEREST: Hideaki Anno Voices His Concerns About the Anime Industry

I'm not sure why you're bringing up One Piece, Dragonball, and Attack on Titan either. Neither of their creators have spoken out about the industry, which was my point. The people who are making popular anime now (sans Toriyama, unless you count Kai) are the ones who will have little problem with the state of the industry. It's these individuals that have no place left in the industry that seem to be the most critical.

To be fair, you're cherry-picking your examples here. Someone who wants to get into anime but doesn't want to watch a show with mostly child characters or magic, is not going to be interested in these shows. What is "appealing to the mainstream" is going to be different for each person, so I don't know why you didn't choose a more varied list. It's the same as someone asking me for a good American show that isn't a sitcom or comedy, and then I recommend three versions of Law & Order and three versions of CSI.

But my point is, why can't we improve the industry?

... appealing to the non-otaku audience,

They haven't produced much lately, but Miyazaki, Tomino, Anno, and Otomo are incredibly influential.

Let's hear some of the great, amazing stories that were told in the past, shall we?

Also daily reminder this was one of the more popular and beloved anime of the 80s. People complain about fanservice today but that show was literally the same joke every episode, for 100 episodes, and multiple OVA/movie spin-offs. Fapbait existed in all eras. It's just the internet didn't exist back then so most westerners didn't know of most anime which aired in Japan at the time.

AwaysAnnoyed wrote:

Sorry to intrude in all these circular debates, but I just have one thing to ask: Said Anno, "the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end—it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations... It may even be too late." What does this mean?

Assuming the translation is accurate....

"the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end" = Creatively, the anime industry is out of ideas.

"it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations" - Our creativity is being stifled by the need to earn a living.

"It may even be too late." - Creating a work of art free from fan and corporate expectations would require either substantial independent patronage from a non-meddlesome source or staff that is willing to work pro bono. Both are unlikely to be found in sufficient quantity.

The gist of it is that Anno is making the same complaint nearly every published author or artist has made since the beginning of time - I just want to write/draw what I want, but they won't pay me to do that!

The gist of it is that Anno is making the same complaint nearly every published author or artist has made since the beginning of time - I just want to write/draw what I want, but they won't pay me to do that!

Someone who wants to 'get into' Japanese cartoons is not going to care about 'the mainstream'. The only 'mainstream'--the shows Fox airs--cartoons aren't even made by people who love animation, let alone viewed as anything more than disposable entertainment.

Improve it in what way?
I have read many comments like this, but I still do not understand what it is that needs to be improved.

But what does that mean? Anybody could be an otaku.
If you made a show that people like to the point of being dedicated to watching it then they would be otaku for that show.
So, who would your ideal anime be made for? Who is the target audience?

Then aren't they largely responsible for the condition of the current anime industry? Be it good or bad.
Didn't they gain their influence by making shows that are popular with otaku, and/or children?

'Otaku' cartoons exist because Otaku have committed to commercially supporting the sort of works they want. That very concept of committing is in direct conflict with the idea of cartoons for mainstream adult. Cartoons are expensive, time-consuming to create and view, and have to be created while weighing what might be more financially responsible options elsewhere.

So maybe, before looking at improving the overall quality of anime, it is important to look at improving the economic context in which these anime are produced in, first.

DmonHiro wrote:

Let's hear some of the great, amazing stories that were told in the past, shall we?

World Masterpiece Theater.

You're right, but if they're irrelevant and out of touch with today's industry, then why are they still influential? Shouldn't the industry have moved on from them?

To be fair, you're cherry-picking your examples here. Someone who wants to get into anime but doesn't want to watch a show with mostly child characters or magic, is not going to be interested in these shows. What is "appealing to the mainstream" is going to be different for each person, so I don't know why you didn't choose a more varied list. It's the same as someone asking me for a good American show that isn't a sitcom or comedy, and then I recommend three versions of Law & Order and three versions of CSI.

Can someone explain what western focused means? Does western-focused mean macho guys blowing up stuff, lots of swearing, tons of sex and gore? It's like the reverse of what happens in many video game reviews. If a game is "very Japanese" that must mean it features little girls, a story that doesn't make any sense, or weird art design.

Eva fans, both young and old, are still buying Evangelion merchandise, and Lili-Hime already posted the box office numbers for Eva 3.0. I'd say that's pretty good for a nearly 20 year-old show. Anno himself was/is an otaku. Honestly, otaku from the 90's aren't radically different from otaku now. Otaku loved the show back then mostly because of the cute girls and giant robots. And otaku nowadays still love cute girls and giant robots(though giant robots not as much). Part of the rationale for the Rebuild movies was to appeal to a "contemporary" audience, i.e. the current otaku crowd. And apparently it's working, based on the merchandise and ticket sales. So I don't see how Anno is out of the touch if there are still so many people (Japanese fans especially) that watch his work.

MarshalBanana wrote:

The 90s was filled with long running shows that are considered masterpieces despite filler, Dragonball had more filler than actual canon and Rurouni Kenshin was about half filler. I would say that the first 5 years of the 90s, pre 95 the year we got GITS and Memories so that was a good year, were the worst times ever in Anime history, When you've sorted through 50 shades of Dystopian Cyberpunk, which is about ever show brought over to the west at that time, what have you got left? There is bound to be some buried treasure I don't know of, but as it stands the only thing I can think of that was good was Ninja Scrolls.

People who hold the 80s and 90s up as some utopia probably haven't actually seen much anime from the time or were aware of what the situation was back then. Very few TV shows were being made, most of it was one or two shot OVAs. Could someone realistically list 10 shows a year during the 80s that were good? It might be hard just because some years 10 shows didn't even air. It's not like today where we have 100+ shows a year to pick from. Fiscally speaking anime is way healthier now than it was back then. Look at JoJo's. Despite it's popularity it took until the 2010s to get a TV adaption, rather than a few OVAs.

Also daily reminder this was one of the more popular and beloved anime of the 80s. People complain about fanservice today but that show was literally the same joke every episode, for 100 episodes, and multiple OVA/movie spin-offs. Fapbait existed in all eras. It's just the internet didn't exist back then so most westerners didn't know of most anime which aired in Japan at the time.

Back to the old "take chances/risks" on anime: haven't they? You can't accuse studios of not trying. Hell Studio 4C was nothing but risk-taking. You can't keep perpetually taking those risks if so many of them continue to never find audiences.

People seem to have this idea that otaku = moe and fanservice anime mentality stuck in their heads. Otaku just means obsessive viewer, usually late night anime. That includes Psycho Pass, Aku no Hana, and whatever other anime people try to say are bucking trends.Otaku anime is not a genre nor is it all the same. I see so many otaku anime praised as some kind of mainstream anime.

How are they still influential? Tezuka was influential but I don't see many people aping his idea/writing style or even art style anymore.

Those are not cherry picked shows,those are in fact the most popular series which have debuted this year. Youkai Watch and Magic Kaito 1412 have consistently been in the Top 10 ratings since they debuted and are some of the most mainstream anime currently airing.

Mainstream anime are the ones I listed. Ones aimed at children and families. One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Detective Conan, Youkai Watch, Pokemon, all those. Neither Titan nor Pass were aimed at anyone but hardcore late night anime watchers.

Which is perhaps why people take issue with Anno's criticism. Anno is one of the last people who should be complaining about marketing concerns in anime considering his lifeblood is based upon doing just that.

Maybe we should just drop the terms mainstream and otaku and just call it anime.

People seem to have this idea that otaku = moe and fanservice anime mentality stuck in their heads. Otaku just means obsessive viewer, usually late night anime.

That is an excellent idea.
And could you please drop "moe" also?

How about "bishoujo zoo" for anime who's the main selling point is their display of cute girls?