Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: FLCL Progressive
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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@DreamLint “How does the three flashes we got actually explain Haruko is in love with Birdman?”
I never said that’s how she learns of Haruko loving Atomsk. You initially asked specifically why Hidomi knows what Haruko wants and that's the question I was answering first and foremost, citing the scene from ep 4. I figured it was very obvious that Hidomi’s speculation about Haruko’s infatuation with Atomsk has to do with the things Jinyu had said to her in ep 3, the classroom shenanigans during the beginning of ep 5, and yes, even the information she learned when Hauko and Jinyu sprouted from her head. I’m just giving you what the series has given me. I guess my deal is that I don’t see how all these factors do not clearly communicate or explain how Hidomi would be cognizant of Haruko’s motives. Jinyu has talked about Atomsk (cryptically mind you, but still) and hinted about how she and Haruko have similar goals; Hidomi sees the events that transpired to make Haruko and Jinyu split; Hidomi puts two and two together. That’s pretty clear if you ask me. “Not sure I'm feeling your line of criticism here. I've made an honest effort to cite evidence for my complaints and concede points that you and others have made.” I’m not saying you haven’t done that. I’m just saying that a few of your complaints have addressed the underlying issue superficially rather than you using the complaint as an example to divulge into how it presents itself as issues inherent to bad storytelling; or rather, why the problem is not specifically the detail you're mentioning, but the reasoning why the detail may not be working for you in the context of the show. Case in point the whole, using dangerous situations to endear the audience to characters bit” but we’ve discussed that ad nauseum so we don’t have to tread that again. And yes, you’re right that the whole point of debate and discussion for both parties to learn from one another; what have I said or done to make you think otherwise; to make you think that I’m not having fun hashing it out or that I’m not completely understanding your complaints? Do keep in mind that discourse also serves to allow others to constructively criticize one another, meaning it’s okay to point out if you think someone didn’t defend or formulate their argument that well. This isn’t a shot at you; I just think that a few of the complaints you have leveled (and by that I mean like a 3 or 4) miss the forest for the trees in regards to what the actual issue is. I’m still enjoying our talk and I absolutely respect the major points your making; you’re not saying things I haven’t thought about or don’t feel on some level. The major difference between you and I is that you’re on the side of the argument that says almost nothing in this sequel works while I’m on the side of justifying that some of this stuff does work even if it does stumble. Me telling you that a small amount of your complaints don’t tackle the real problem underneath or that they come off as non-issues (oh we’re about to get into that really soon) is not me discrediting your arguments or not understanding where you’re coming from. “...But why not just have the pole? Your obvious, surface level observation isn't an actual argument you know?” ……Really dude; you throwing that line back at me here does not work AT ALLLL!!! I don’t know if you realize just how anal this complaint is. Your rebuttal here is literally that Marco’s N.O. should have just released a pole and that just feels….kind of lazy honestly. That’s like saying the gunman from the original flcl didn’t need to be an MM robot; it could have just been a hand that dragged Naota all the way to the plant and just activated it. See, but then if that happened, we wouldn’t have got an awesome action scene; one that establishes an exciting scenario that facilitates the tension built up from all the characters up until that point. It would have been lame if a hand just sprouted from Naota’s head and activated the plant. Likewise, it would have been lame if only a pole sprouted from Marco’s head. The design of the pole robot is that he is a drone specifically meant to make the plant stand up; why are you so concerned by the fact that there was a robot attached to it? Why are you determined to justify your complaint that the robot felt like a pointless addition to ep 4’s combat when ep 5 comes around and practically confirms that the robot’s involvement was a necessary plot point and now you’re trying to dismiss that by saying that it should have just been the pole. The robot is designed like this; it has floral motifs on it illustrating that the bamboo stick is a part of its being. Why is it a problem that it was an MM drone and not just a pole? It’s established flcl lore that MM dispatches robots to defend the plant or to possibly recapture things that have escaped from their dictating grasp. The drone was simply lifting up the plant while trying to eliminate the intruders around it; that’s just medical mechanica’s M.O. I’m genuinely trying to understand why you think having this element being a part of the narrative is so contrived and inherently unnecessary. Regardless of Jinyu and Haruko’s conflict being the center of last week’s battle, MM are also trying to set up its end just like they were in the original. By flipping the iron up, it’s fudge-YOU laser is unobstructed, allowing it to shoot down any threats it deems as termination-worthy. It’s melting pot of multiple goals, some opposing, simply crossing each other in a battle frenzy. And how does me pointing out that the pole and the robot are one in the same a “surface level observation that isn’t an argument.” The point of my statement was to call out just how reaching your original complaint was by trying to differentiate the two. Now instead of legitimately explaining why the robot is contrived after all, you’ve just resorted to saying that the robot component was not needed. Right or wrong, it just feels like a pointless complaint. Not to mention it feels like a cheeky way to throw that line back my way; although I did get a genuine laugh out of it If there's anything i want you to take away from this, is that i don't think you're some irrational hater of this sequel that doesn't know what he's talking about. I think you have some really good points. But i won't lie though: i do think every now and then your strong bias towards the series does blind you to some stuff and it affects your judgment slightly (Still, it doesn't prevent me from appreciating your input). We're human; it happens to the best of us; that's why it's important to train ourselves to become more cognizant of when that bias starts affecting us negatively and to channel it appropriately. And that is yet another reason why discussion is important Last edited by we love lain on Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DreamedLint
Posts: 42 |
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@we love lain
I thought I was smack dab in the forest. I was being catty but I do get where you're coming from and can appreciate constructive criticism. It just seemed like my opinions were evolving (like with the relationship development) and you were still arguing with a point I had since elaborated on. I wasn't outright dismissing that style of writing, I was just trying to explain why I found the writing lacking there, and like I said, hadn't even considered the other examples where it had succeeded. It was a situational thing, and I since made my position more clear. But like you said, the horse is dead and I'm beating it... Speaking of dead horses. My original issue with the robot in episode 4 was how it felt superfluous to the conflict between Haruko and Jinyuu. You're right that it made the action sequence better, I was wrong there though I don't think I can appreciate the sequence as much as you due entirely to subjectivity. My point being, the bot from episode 5 (og) was the primary focus of the conflict it was involved in. Yes, it was basically there for the sick af action scene, but at least it played a larger role there. If the bot was lifting the iron itself, I'd be willing to admit that it had an ulterior purpose, but the pole did the lifting. Why the pole? Why the bot? I think my cheeky comeback made a little sense. It was a simple observation. Even I noticed that the robot was attached to the pole. But it missed the underlying key point that the bot was superfluous to the pole. (Unless you're assuming it was guarding the pole but I'm not 100% ready to buy that) Eh? Eh? That's pretty good, right? Anyway. I'll die on my pole hill. |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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See; this is the part where you seem to be misinterpreting the details; the robot can't be superfluous to the bamboo pole because the pole IS a part of the robot. It's a part of it's entire being, it's an extension of itself; they are not separate entities; it's part of the whole design. I don't know why you're under the impression that they're separate objects. The robot was dispatched to lift up medical mechanica and it did so with its bamboo pole. But hey, if you wanna die on your pole hill, that's fine with me bro |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3186 |
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Penultimate episode was beautiful. Looking forward to watching that episode again and again. Definitely going to purchase whatever BD release comes out.
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k_dawg_3484
 Posts: 58 |
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Having watched five episodes now, it's just so boring to me. Not compared to the original. Not compared to my own tastes. Compared to anything. Most shows evoke something in me, even if it's hate, but, man, I just sort of pay 10% attention to each episode for this one. It's an icky feeling.
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DreamedLint
Posts: 42 |
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What's going on? Is episode 6 out? Is it delayed till next week? Why isn't it on adultswim's website?
EDIT: Nevermind lol, they put it up eventually. Last edited by DreamedLint on Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DreamedLint
Posts: 42 |
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Oh boy we finally did it. I told you they'd do it and the retcon has finally arrived. Haruko was actually in love with Atomsk the whole time. Amarao was right! Should listen to him more often.
Hidomi and her mom reconciled, which is fine. It doesn't seem worth all the angsty isolationism we were getting throughout the series. The headphones finally came off and she's still just as boring. Hidomi's NO does make sense to me now. Like she was trying to turn into her Super Canti form but the headphones were interfering. I was mistaken there, feel free to booty blast me on that one. Having Atomsk just fly in for a random visit instead of being called there is pretty lame. It makes all Haruko's previous actions seem super pointless. Maybe that's the theme though, things don't need a reason to exist. Embrace pointlessness. A fitting lesson for a pointless sequel like this one. It rewrites recurring characters, doesn't enrich an ongoing story over the two series, and fails to create a unique and interesting story of its own. |
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CatSword
 Posts: 1489 |
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Mildly disappointed. There were a few good moments but a lot of it just felt like someone got the budget to recreate their FLCL fanfiction.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I still maintain that she only believes she’s in love with Atomsk, and her overtures are pointless because what she wants out of him would spoil what makes him special. I thought the end was pretty good, but as I suspected, it didn’t really justify making a FLCL sequel. |
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luffypirate
Posts: 3186 |
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Interesting show! Nothing too mind blowing, but I’m sure it will grow on me over time. Looking forward to Alternative!
(psst...I thought the coolest anime related thing I’d see last night was the FLCL Progressive finale, but it actually turned out to be the Super Robot Wars 4 reference in Pop Team Epic!) Last edited by luffypirate on Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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Hahaha naaaaaah; that would be too easy. Just know that I know what I'm talking about when i start getting all analytical  . Like i said before, i usually don't like making concrete statements unless I'm absolutely confident in them. If I'm not, ill accompany the statement with a disclaimer that it's based off conjecture or that i'm theory crafting
Sigh....... this finale....it did some things. I need a rewatch to see how i feel about everything but as of right now, i feel pretty lukewarm about the whole thing. Before this finale, I would have felt comfortable scoring progressive a 6/10 but this finale episode kinda wore on my generosity a little bit. For now, the show as a whole feels like a 5/10 for me and now my hopes have been turned to Alternative. If there's any compliment i can give alternative at the moment, it's that its first episode captured a bit more of the earnest sentimentality the original had while doing it in its own way. We'll have to wait and see how the series turns out as a whole but I'm slightly optimistic after ep 1 despite some reservations |
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DreamedLint
Posts: 42 |
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Oh lain Sempai ur brain is so smart and virile, my poor booty can't take anymore destruction, have mercy. I'll retreat back to my doo doo cave for doo doo heads like me. Never again to emerge and challenge the girth of your debate ability. This was a 5 on 10 for me as well. Which honestly blows. My biggest worry was that the sequel would be mediocre. I know I said I hated it and called it awful but that's because mediocre is about the worst thing FLCL could be. It's forgettable and lame. Sure it isn't complete garbage, the animation is decent, the dub is fine, the story... exists but FLCL deserved better. It deserved to be left the hell alone. |
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we love lain
Posts: 145 |
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No i hear ya; really passionate flcl fans feel the same way you do; that just having a average sequel follow up one of the most quintessential anime experiences of all time is an insult to the flcl legacy. While i don't necessarily see it that way (well, not to the same intensity anyway; I do share those thoughts on some level), I do understand the sentiment. Like i told you before, if a creator has a passion to honor a well-regarded work, they should be given the freedom and opportunity to take that risk. I'd rather someone try to reinterpret a work that inspired them than not do it at all. Progressive at times captured some of the flcl magic, but it wasn't consistent. As of now, my hopes for a GOOD flcl follow-up are all on alternative. I'm not satisfied with getting such a non-descript, average, follow-up to one of my favorite anime of all time Last edited by we love lain on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kougeru
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as expected, it was a rather disappointing attempt. Not awful by any real measure (except side-character dub voices), but definitely felt like a fanfiction more than a true sequel.
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SWAnimefan
Posts: 634 |
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I wouldn't say it felt like a fanfiction, more like it felt like a modern anime that was trying to recreate the original.
I bet if someone edited out the dead time and increased the pace significantly, it would feel more like the original. |
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