Forum - View topicNEWS: Nintendo Claiming Ad Revenue for YouTube Game Videos
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Hardgear
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While they are definitely operating within the law, they are not going to win any points with the fans. In fact it seems a large chunk of the affected youtubers have suspended all of their Nintendo videos. More interesting is the flipside of this though: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/17/what-does-nintendos-claiming-of-lets-play-videos-mean-for-us-pc-gamers/ Specifically this part: “Thomas Was Alone would not have been a hit without YouTube. Without the frequent infringement of my copyright, the astonishingly aggressive use of my intellectual property and oftentimes presumptuous use of work comprising years of my life, I wouldn’t be sat right now, at home, taking a break from my work as a full time indie developer.” I myself have been convinced to buy a game I otherwise would not have bothered with after watching a video on it, so that is money the company would otherwise not have gotten. I also have a friend that actually released a game on Android almost a year ago and its at a little over 100 downloads now. He would kill to get his game in a Lets Play video. But, as you pointed out Nintendo isn't doing anything wrong, except maybe alienating a large group of fans. And as Donpablo pointed out, it seems kind of funny they would do that given the position they are in right now, with the WiiU looking like this generation's Dreamcast so far.... |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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There will still be videos out there to look at and help you decide as Nintendo is not pulling any videos, so I don't see the problem here. If anything, you should get upset at the people who might pull their own videos out of spite. That's when their true colors are being brought to light. I've seen plenty of Let's Players who do it for fun side with Nintendo on this; it's mainly the people who want the money and make a living off it that are getting upset. The ones who have jobs and merely do this as a side-hobby are the ones being very neutral about this whole thing. Also, Thomas Was Alone is a bare-bones indie game, you can not compare that to mega marketing giants like Mario and Pokemon. And before we start talking about "hurt their reputation" and "alienating fans", I'd like to point out how much Activision and EA games still sell. Despite all the complaining and talks of 'boycotting' their stuff, they still sell tons of games; either because the number of people boycotting is marginal, or because they have no willpower and can't actually follow through with it. |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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I think Nintendo would have looked much better in comparison if they had simply removed ANY ad revenue from the videos rather than pulling this. Yes, it's a Nintendo game, however the LP'er purchased the game and took the effort to edit the video, upload it and all that. If they have an issue with a person making money from that, fair enough, but having the audacity to claim money for that themselves is childish behavior. If you're upset that you're not getting money from this form of videos, Nintendo, then upload your OWN LP's of your games with people hired to be funny and/or informative about the game. In other words, do your own work and don't be content to lazily ride off other people. Yes, you're within legal rights, but we do NOT have to automatically accept it as commendable behavior. As The Simpsons mocked with this line: "once the government approves of it, it's no longer immoral". I respect the law and recognize what you're doing is legal, but please respect my individual right to view what you're doing as despicable.
TitanXL: except I've found LP's to be a good adviser on what games to purchase and what games to pass on. Matt and Pat (Two Best Friends Let's Play) got me interested in the Metal Gear Solid games with their discussions of the series while playing Revengeance so now I intend to pick up the new HD collection and Revengeance. On the other hand, they showed me how dreadfully incompetent Heavy Rain and Silent Hill Downpour were, games that generally got favorable remarks from reviewers, which showed that LP's can be more trustworthy than so-called reviewers as they show the game for what it truly is as opposed to the opinion of a written review. So now I can focus on giving my money to development teams that actually did a good job instead of wasting on a wretched game and feeling guilty I gave my money to a development team that failed to make a good game as opposed to those who did succeed in doing so. |
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LUNI_TUNZ
 Posts: 809 |
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As I understand it, it's only Nintendo owned games, like Mario, so for instance Pokemon, which is owned by Gamefreak, will not get the claims.
There's a hilarious irony in this sentence. |
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Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
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I suggest that you read this thing.
It doesn't matter how "transformative" the work is, if it is being used primarily for entertainment purposes, as opposed to critical commentary or teaching purposes, it isn't protected. It's the same thing as how fanart can't (or at least shouldn't) be sold without permission. Nintendo is perfectly entitled to the money other people make off of their works. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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i just don't have it in me to make any snarky or smart responses on this subject right now.
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XeroBlitzAce
Posts: 1 |
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That statement just turns it around and makes them sound like they're the good guys. Rockstar was probably the worst when it came to commentaries with their games, and they've said they're fine with it now if it's not only cut scenes. There are no big companies that take down commentaries anymore.
Nintendo has the right to do this, it their games, but to me it feels like they're just after the money. If they didn't want their games on YouTube they could just take it down, but no, they're doing all of us a favor and leaving it up for us to watch. They basically want to have their cake and eat it too. Sooner or later people are going to make less Nintendo content and some might even take down the videos they have up already. No matter how much of the "good guy" they sound like right now, having a Content ID Match on your channel is still not a good thing. They can turn into copyright strikes. If a channel has more than three Nintendo videos and the content ID turns into a copyright strike the channel is taken down. Some people aren't taking their videos down or not creating content because there's no money in it, it's because they don't want to run the risk of their channel shut down. Commentaries aren't hurting companies. Some companies probably make thousands more off videos people make than content producers are. Most, if not all, of my favorite games right now are games I've found after watching a commentary. If your game is good people will buy it anyway after watching the video. Nintendo has the right to do this, but I feel like it's a big mistake. Maybe they aren't aware of how YouTube is can to benefit them. But right now Nintendo is "like that actor who charges for autographs at conventions" like CliffyB said. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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The problem here is everyone's falsely believing Nintendo's making a copyright claim here. They're not. What they're doing is telling YouTube "Our works are used in these videos, so we believe we're entitled to all ad revenue generated from it." Since the videos are not removed*, there's no copyright jurisdiction here, even under Fair Use. *Videos removed have been done by ex-fans. It's not going to surprise me one bit if this ends within the next week or two, and Nintendo "apologizes" to its fans. This was one of the most bone-headed moves I've seen the company do in a while. Did they really think this wouldn't turn into a PR nightmare for them? |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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I think you're underestimating the draw of the game- now, it's been awhile, but several years back I popped in our old copy of Columns on the Genesis and found I'd somehow become abnormally good at it. Reaching level 60-70 was a bad run. By your logic, if I can still do this, I could make some videos and get a nice side paycheck. I checked youtube, and I found a couple Let's Plays for Columns. The most viewed has been up for 2 years, and picked up a whopping... 1200 views. Compare that to say, Bioshock Infinite- the worst numbers I could find were a couple 1-month old videos, one in German, with 10,000 views each. Quite simply, the world's best Intellivision player won't get as many hits as the worst guy at Minecraft. Game does matter a lot, and it is fair of Nintendo to claim their game is the draw and they should get the reward- especially if it turns out to be true that they'll only target their newest releases. Having said that, it's a terrible PR move by Nintendo- good money for a Let's Player is barely a drop in the bucket by Nintendo's terms, and the word-of-mouth spread by some positive Wii U Let's Plays can only help the ailing system- the whole thing comes off as a jerk move. I hope they change their minds... after all, this could make it a lot harder for me to find a reason to buy a Wii U. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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I guess it depends on the game at hand as you stated. I have a talent for beating retro rpgs such as phantasy star, shining force, chrono trigger or final fantasy 4 in or around 5-10 hrs faster than most players. Should I post a let's play on you-tube to show off my skills and get a pay-check for doing so?? What about my skills for he tank controlled resident evil games before 4 came out. Should I really get payed for skills like this?? In all honesty I wish but the law is the law and is not going to change that easily. My best time yet in biohazad 2 http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q496/cecilthedarkknight_234/SoDamnSweet.png |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Pretty much. It's why when a new game comes out suddenly every big Let's Player is doing it. I remember when Skyrim came out and that bloody thing was everywhere. And despite what some people claim is a "transformative" medium, almost every single video I saw back then played out the same way: the first 10 or so parts was them doing the intro and then going to that town near-by, getting the quest to go into Bleak Fall Barrows to get the Golden Claw, then going to White-Run, killing their first Dragon, etc. It was incredibly repetitive. And despite them maybe branching away after all that, you're still seeing the same quests done over and over again from the Mage Guild to the Warrior Guild and so forth. It's also sadly what caused me to stop watching some Let's Players I did like. They stopped doing older games because they made more money by playing newer ones the day of release when everyone is searching for gameplay footage and stuff on it. So they ended up doing the same kind of games as everyone else rather than older, obscure stuff. Kind of a shame to see some people I enjoyed resort to doing that, but when it's your job then you gotta do what gets you the most hits. Which is why I prefer Let's Players who do it for fun rather than money, it's a total attitude shift when it becomes all about money. You can calculate by clockwork what game someone is going to play based on what the next big Triple A release is. |
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Ryujin99
 Posts: 192 |
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I tend to agree with people's opinions that this sounds like Nintendo grasping at every financial straw they can find; however I fully support their stance on the matter. It's their IP, and they have every right to exercise control over whether or not other people can make money off of it. Even so, it's sad to see them floundering like this. I pretty much grew up on Nintendo systems, so I certainly don't want to see them end up like Sega. I also think they're still introducing creative ideas for game systems that benefit the industry as a whole.
But getting to the meat of the discussion. To be perfectly blunt, I think it's disgraceful for LP creators to make money off their videos. It's one thing if they want to make the videos for fun, but making money off of those videos isn't fair to the game's creators. Certainly the money they make is usually small change to a large corporation, but in my opinion the amount of money made is irrelevant. The fact remains that they're making money in ways they shouldn't be according to current IP and copyright laws. Rules are rules and they're meant to be followed. Enforcement of existing rules or the exercise of creator's rights shouldn't be seen as "bad PR." And all things considered, Nintendo really isn't being that heavy-handed with this. Claiming ad revenue made by "non-transformative" works featuring their IP seems perfectly reasonable to me, and they're not making any demands that videos featuring their IP be taken down. The groups doing it for fun should be completely unaffected by this development, and I think the ones doing it for a living shouldn't have pursued such a questionable career. Having said my bit, I must admit that I don't watch any Let's Play videos, and I rarely even watch parody videos... or much of anything on YouTube actually. I'm too busy watching anime or actually playing video games in whatever spare time I have. |
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minakichan
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To make a bit of a comparison...
I'm a fanartist who occasionally sells my artwork using other people's intellectual property for a profit at anime convention artist alleys. What I am doing is at best in a legal gray area (if you interpret some fair use laws very liberally, but it's somewhat hard to justify even when it's NOT for profit). At worst, it's pretty much illegal. The IP holders absolutely have the complete right to shut me down and sue me for any profits I've made. If IP holders decided that instead of suing me, they should get a cut of my profits, I'd call that a VERY generous deal. If they found a way to profit off of me when I'm not selling my art (for example, sticking ads on my portfolio page), I think that'd be pretty good too. After all, as a fanartist, I have to want the original property to succeed and for the IP holders to make money, otherwise the argument that I make, that "fanart doesn't discourage people from buying the actual work" would hold no water. Sure, this isn't exactly the same thing as a Let's Play (although I'd argue fanart is far more transformative than an LP), but I think it's enough to make sense. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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I think Nintendo is in the right. If you run your You Tube channel like a for profit business then you should be professional. Places like Giant Bomb have to get permission to do a 20 minute quick look. I'm not sure why these Youtube folk running a for profit gaming business think streaming like hours upon hours of a game, often 100% of a title, for $$$ is ok and doesn't even warrant asking the ip holder.
I think a revenue spilt would be nicer to LP people, but I'd only offer that to people that are professionals and trying to do this the right way. Some guy just bullying his way through on some, "I'll do whatever I want, whenever I want, rules be damned," can kick rocks though. Most if not all LPers fall into that second category. |
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crosswithyou
 Posts: 2892 Location: California |
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If we were to compare this to anime, what you're basically saying is that it would be childish for an anime company to go after fansubbers. A fansubber may buy the BD or DVD, spend the time to rip it, translate it, subtitle it, and upload it. Can you still say that an anime company has no right to insert ads into those videos? Realistically speaking, those kinds of videos would be removed rather than just have ads inserted, and the fansubber may or may not be making a profit off of it (eg. ads from hits on their site), but the example would still apply since you're saying the LPer purchased the original content (something a fansubber might not even do) and spent the time to edit it, which is similar to the effort a fansubber may put into subtitling an anime. |
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