Forum - View topicAnime's Fiercest Frenemies
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Gemnist
Posts: 1758 |
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I'll write about the series I have actually seen:
Naruto vs Sasuke: I think what ultimately drove these two apart was a sense of over-the-top jealousy. In a way, Naruto's was justified, as his ultimate goal was not to become Hokage, but to be loved by people instead of abhorred for something completely out of his control (but totally in his parents' control). All Sasuke wanted, meanwhile, was to have a family, but being raised by a fascist father and Itachi's reluctant manipulating caused him to think that power was the way to get it, and thus became jealous when Naruto made progress and was able to defeat opponents that he himself could not (ex. Zabuza and Gaara), not knowing for various reasons that Naruto actually just redeemed them and didn't actually best them. During Part I, it was always nice to see Naruto make slight improvements while the oblivious Sasuke only got worse. In Part II, though, I think WSJ got too focused on trying to cash in on what they perceived as the next Goku vs Vegeta, and to that they ultimately expended the development of the series' other two main characters, Sakura and Kakashi. That being said, it became really clear that both of them were wrong in essence, as they were both striving for inherently selfish goals. Luckily, Naruto ended up losing everything to Pain, and by the time he ended his conversation with Minato, he came to the realization that his true purpose in life was not to make everyone love him, but to make everyone love everyone. This selfless ideal helped him to eventually redeem every other villain he came across, ending (anti-climatically) with Sasuke. Idealistic, sure, but it also pushed the bounds of Shonen with something quite darker. Light vs L: If you ask a Death Note fan when they went from Light's side to L's, the answer you typically get is when L died because he is just too huggable. But for me, it was when Light killed Raye Penber and his fiancé. Being from Texas, I know all the things about how the death penalty is good and bad. But it's inherently repulsive when you murder people just because they are looking at you and telling the police something that doesn't blow your cover at all respectively. L, meanwhile, was truly trying to do something good, but still getting in Light's way. However, I can understand people's frustrations regarding the anime, as Near was not as good as L was character-wise and everything felt rushed. That's why I ultimately recommend the manga, even if the anime has better aesthetics. Lelouch vs Suzaku: People always say, "Oh, Lelouch is a totally evil dude fighting for incestuous causes - don't listen to that dirtbag antihero!". But that's just wrong. Unlike what most people think, Lelouch actually cares for other people - unlike Light, who was willing to kill everyone he loved, and ultimately didn't give a crap when his father died (by the way, that to me was the saddest death of the series), Lelouch truly and deeply loved the people around him, and by Episode 32, he was fighting for them also. As for Suzaku, I just came to absolutely wish he was dead, not because he was unrelatable, but because I didn't know HOW to relate to him. He started off the first episode as a kindhearted individual, but he somewhat lost me by the next episode. The thing with him is that he chose the wrong profession. Why would you join a military and be its mech-wielding trump card if your whole purpose is to be the only one that doesn't live to tell the tale? And unlike with the Elric brothers, the military Suzaku joined was one that committed genocide every single day. There are then those fans who think that Suzaku then stuck with those ideals. There are also fans who think he lost his sanity and became just another Britannian maniac after Euphemia died, emphasized by how he went around the world killing people and creating Areas when his whole mission was to liberate one. But the way he kept on switching back and forth between these personas for the sake of the plot during R2 made me lose faith in him as a character. And the Akito the Exiled OVAs make this worse by revealing his true intentions - to become the Knight of One, sure, but not to take over Japan, but to annihilate humanity in Euphemia's name (even Schneizel would be disgusted). And the thing is, he just got worse. You would expect some resolution by the end, but that one was out-of-character, and he still went around looking for Euphie-Vengeance. Lelouch, meanwhile, got better. He actually learned from his mistakes, became more and more selfless, and ultimately sacrificed himself to save the world. So I sided with him. |
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meruru
Posts: 471 |
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Oh geeze, how can I forget also Izaya and Shizuo from Durarara? While those two are openly hostile, they're intentionally foiled like in the article, where Shizuo is impulse and. brute strength, and Izaya is the scheming type. The over the top battles where Izaya seems to enjoy getting Shizuo's goat make it seem different from the regular just enemies relationship.
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Divineking
 Posts: 1293 |
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Those two don't have anything resembling a friendship or even attempt faking one so that would exclude them from the list |
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Jedi Master Kirito
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I agree with all of the examples given in the article, except that I have not yet seen Trigun. Other great examples include Guy v Kakashi (the Eternal Rivals, at least in Guy's mind), Natsu v Gray (Fire and Ice do not mix), Erza v Mirajane, Rin Okumura v Bon, and of course, Ash v Gary.
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ninjamitsuki
 Posts: 598 Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology) |
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Vash and Wolfwood really is one of the more beautiful friendships, especially in the manga.
spoiler[In the manga, Wolfwood got to spend his final moments right by Vash's side. Made me tear up so much.] |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Those kids throwing the confetti... 
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Calsolum
 Posts: 898 |
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I made the mistake of sipping water at the exact moment i was reading this... After I cleaned up the mess i still laughed out loud and had family stare at me. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Well, 500 words of description can only do so much. While they are the closest of friends right before becoming the worst of enemies, the actual journey there is a series of contentious growth spurts, and the reasons for their growing friendship are mostly wrapped up in their own ego problems. Their first meeting is a potentially fatal duel for Griffith's right to "own" Guts as a pawn, and there are points in their relationship where Guts genuinely hates and feels confused by Griffith's decisions, while Griffith never really gives Guts the satisfaction of calling him a friend (because that would make them equals). Before Griffith sells his soul for demonic power, right when it seems like he's about to take the throne, Guts up and leaves the mercenary band against his commander's wishes, because he'd rather go out and live his own life than continue serving under someone so obviously superior to him. Griffith doesn't see it that way, because he's started to feel like Guts is even stronger than him on the inside as well as the outside. If Griffith was a true friend to Guts, this wouldn't bother him, but because he put so much stock in his ability to control the guy, he completely freaks out when Guts decides to leave him, seeing it as a failing in what should be his perfect rise to kingdom. So yeah, they have lots of love-hate issues even before the whole hellish blood-eclipse-feast thing happens. |
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jroa
Posts: 537 |
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I would say both Suzaku and Lelouch were quite immature for most of the show, for various reasons, and neither of them had the perfect answer. But there was arguably less "hypocrisy" in Zero's actions to begin with. To be sure, Lelouch was quite aware that his methods weren't always morally correct. He calls himself out on that a number of times. They were justified by the ends, perhaps, but not free from condemnation. He was willing to accept punishment or responsibility for them. Unlike Suzaku, however, he wasn't willing to submit to the status quo (to a greater or lesser extent) before exiting the stage. Your remark about Akito the Exiled is fairly interesting. There are a couple of parallels to spoiler[Noein], but I wouldn't call the OVA series a remake. That said, those small scenes involving Suzaku and Lelouch are definitely one of the least understood aspects of the project. Rather than just "fanservice" for its own sake, they do reflect Kazuki Akane's interpretation of Suzaku's emotions and his personal reaction to Lelouch at this point in time (between seasons). They're compatible with what was shown during the original TV series. Just presented quite differently. Unfortunately, it's definitely a case where Akane's decision to "show, not tell" what their presence meant has led to some confusion and open disappointment among various fans who aren't familiar with the director's new approach.
For the record, this is not an accurate description at all. Which makes that part of your interpretation essentially incorrect. We see just one new character in the Akito the Exiled OVAs who briefly pretends to psychoanalyze Suzaku, because he (Shin) sees some of himself in our infamous Japanese knight, but that doesn't mean he is right. The similarities between Shin and Suzaku are limited to murdering family members. In fact, Shin is ultimately quite wrong. Suzaku was often self-destructive and definitely had the ability to commit murder, which he tried to escape from through his preachy and superficial idealism. That was all used as a cover to hide from the guilt he felt due to killing his own father, but he never literally wished to destroy the world or murder most of humanity. That was exclusively what Shin wanted, not Suzaku. It wouldn't be fair to confuse the two like that. I think you may have to rewatch that whole sequence again. At the same time, I will point out that Suzaku is meant to be a living contradiction. The events of the end of Code Geass S1 had started to break him, but the process wasn't complete yet. It's not only "for the sake of plot" that he has trouble getting rid of his idealism and openly embracing the dark part of his personality. It's not easy to go from one extreme to the other. He still needed to fully snap. Which is why I think your claim that Suzaku "got worse" is technically true but almost besides the point. In the end, his resolution was surprisingly constructive though: Suzaku stopped running away from the past, accepted a new form of punishment and abandoned his self-destructive idealism. However, that wasn't based on "Euphie-Vengeance" at all. In fact, you could argue Suzaku adopted some of Lelouch's ideas in the process (and, vice versa, Lelouch gave some credit to the whole "changing Britannia from the inside" concept as part of his final plan, though in a very different sense than what Suzaku meant). Last edited by jroa on Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shizukanashinah
Posts: 14 |
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Holy Trigun Maximum spoilers, Batman!
That was an awesome analysis of the Vash-Wolfwood friendship. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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As someone who's a really big fan of Kazuki Akane, I'm curious as to what you mean here. Sure Akito the Exiled and spoiler[Noein] are kind of similar in tone since they are very 'Akane-esque' in style, but I don't see any more similarity than the stylistic similarities all of Akane's works share. I do agree that his presentation made the characters seem much richer than the original series. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13567 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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I think Kaiba and Yugi may have not been mentioned because, at least to me, they don't seem like friends. At least Sasuke at times was more caring towards his comrades. However, I honestly wish Naruto had finished Sasuke off in their last battle.
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jroa
Posts: 537 |
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If you really want to know, I can answer most of that question. The fifth and final episode does take a sharp turn right into the kind of subject matter seen in that older TV series. spoiler[Quantum science antics happen, including the ability to alter space/time with the presence of an "observer" character (voiced by the same actress who played the protagonist of Noein, if I recall correctly).] It's some rather out there stuff that makes more sense if you've seen a lot of the director's work (and don't have an issue with the more metaphysical content that did appear during the Code Geass TV series), but which didn't exactly have a ton of prior setup here (outside of some vague hints). As for the character richness...it's hard to judge. Perhaps that is true, proportionally speaking, because there are some rather interesting scenes in this respect, but the limited running time is a structural issue that kind of prevents the cast from having too much development in absolute terms. For instance, you couldn't really argue that Akito and Shin (or Akito and Ashley) have enough of a dynamic that would match or outdo the one established between Lelouch and Suzaku, to bring this back to the topic. |
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trilaan
 Posts: 1055 Location: Texas |
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I knew the moment I saw the article and it's author that I could expect another delightful Jacob Chapman dissertation on Trigun(Vash and Wolfwood are definitely my favorites on this list).
Two characters not appearing in this list that I would have enjoyed seeing, however, were Lieutenant Commander Justy Ueki Tylor and Captain Ru Baraba Dom from The Irresponsible Captain Tylor. spoiler[I How did they Meet? After being integral(more or less) to more than one USPF victory over the Raalgon Empire, the young Empress decides it would be a good idea to learn more about Lieutenant Commander Justy Ueki Tylor and she tasks her best starship Captain and growing confidant, Dom, to seek out Tylor with the ultimate goal of bringing him before her. Eventually the two captains do come face to face, though mostly by accident. Tylor immediately adopts a demeanor quite unlike his usual personality, appearing to Dom to be a consummate military professional, meeting with his enemy over a comm-screen in dress whites with an invite to share a drink with him. Tylor and his crew escape in a most unorthodox manner, leaving Dom to wonder about Tylor's true nature. They're completely different! Tylor is a human with a simple philosophy of do whatever you want, do it to the best of your ability and just let everything else take care of itself. He very much seems to simply bumble his way into and out of dangerous situations, giving no real thought to the consequences of failure. He DID join the USPF for an easy life("All your food and daily necessities are all free!"), after all. Despite his victories the USPF Top Brass believe him to be completely insufferable and certainly would not mind if he got himself and his crew of misfits(most of whom initially find him just as insufferable and useless as the Top Brass do) blown to space dust. Dom, on the other hand, is an alien space elf and a young, though well-respected member of the Raalgon military. His superiors like him, the Empress likes him and counts on his counsel, and he is very much a warrior-philosopher and excellent strategist. In short, he definitely IS all the things that Tylor may or may not be. But they're the same! Both men wish for peace in this time of war. Both men believe that their respective nations don't have to be enemies and that a little understanding can lead to miracles. Neither of them has any real malice towards the other one but both are somewhat trapped by their duties and the machinations of their superiors. If either one could end the war right now, and to the mutual benefit of both parties, they would. They are both honorable men of differering circumstances forced to fight. And if they should both be placed in command of the entirety of their starfleets, who knows whether peace or war, life or death, will win the day? So, friends or enemies in the end? Over the course of their interactions both of these men are able to learn about and respect one another. However, as they are part of different warring nations, working directly together is near impossible so each one must endeavor to end the war peaceably from within and in his own unique way. Mutual Respect + Working Towards a Common Goal = Friends and, perhaps someday, they'll be able to meet face to face over another glass of wine as True Friends. ] |
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GuilewasNK
Posts: 7 |
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I'd have to say my favorite frenemies are Mugen and Jin in Samurai Champloo. Mugen and Jin are great because they are so different from each other and want to kill each other, but have mutual respect for each other's skill and are willing to work together for Fuu's behalf.
Ranma and Ryoga in Ranma 1/2 are of my favorites too, but they lean a little more to pure rivals than frenemies. They do have their moments when they work together as friends though. |
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