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Crabtree1 wrote:

Ignoring the obviously pretty pricey looking laptop, here in the UK the council are legally required to provide accomadation for any homeless people who ask for it, does the US not have that?

As others have pointed out, the U.S. has very poor resources for people without stable housing. New York (where I live) happens to have a legal stipulation to provide shelter, but temporary homeless shelters are often full, and getting access to stable, affordable housing is much more difficult..
I once heard a harrowing story on a local radio station of a single mom from Pennsylvania who ran to NYC with her child when her abusive ex was released from prison, not just to get away from him but because she knew NYC would be more likely to place her in a shelter than Philadelphia (there are separate shelters for parents with kids). Months later, she qualified for a housing voucher (rent assistance from the government) but couldn't find a landlord who would accept it...Affordable housing programs and temporary shelters in America are inadequate and rents keep rising while wages remain stagnant, which has created a crises.

Zeino wrote:

I'm sorry but whatever is the point of this article? The destitute should be aided in anyway they can but this feels... rather cynical in it's aims. Like it cares more about making a story of "interest" out of Toby than helping him out of his unjust and desperate situation.

It's getting people thinking and talking about America's homelessness crises, which is a good thing.

If anyone wants to learn more, I highly recommend this podcast: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/when-safety-net-doesnt-catch-you

Agent355 wrote:

Crabtree1 wrote:

Ignoring the obviously pretty pricey looking laptop, here in the UK the council are legally required to provide accomadation for any homeless people who ask for it, does the US not have that?

As others have pointed out, the U.S. has very poor resources for people without stable housing. New York (where I live) happens to have a legal stipulation to provide shelter, but temporary homeless shelters are often full, and getting access to stable, affordable housing is much more difficult.. Affordable housing programs and temporary shelters in America are inadequate and rents keep rising while wages remain stagnant, which has created a crises.

Aside from the obvious federalism questions (the US has a limited federal government -- just because a problem is seen in lots of places doesn't mean it doesn't fall to states to deal with it), this brings up the important point that the *problem* and many root causes are vastly different.

I live in San Diego, CA -- on the complete opposite side of the country from you. It rains for a few weeks out of the year max, and it's snowed here twice in the last 19 years. When the weather is 72 for most of the year, homeless *come* here because of that fact -- you can just camp out in any of our many, many canyons throughout the city. But with very few exceptions, the homeless here are not feeling any motivation to get back into a stable situation at all (either due to choice or to mental illness). And if they *did* want to get a job and find a place to live, they wouldn't stay located in a place with expensive housing costs. It's a big country, and it's hard enough for local residents to make ends meet without subsidizing others who would be better able to get back on their feet somewhere where rent is $400/month instead of $1000/month.

The article/story is fine for what it is, but what struck out at me was his "boredom" comment. Once you descend into mental illness (and often drug use), things often change, but it sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. In this case, "boredom" is a feature, not a bug, because it might encourage him to find something to do -- i.e., be a productive member of society.

Anyone (even homeless people) should be given conceptual allowance for something to help pass the time, but every hour he's playing a mobile app is an hour he's not putting toward his future survival. If I were his guildmate, I would want someone to intervene while he takes care of priority and initiative #1: himself.

Crabtree1 wrote:

The only reason I commented on the laptop was because I've got a "similar" looking one which could rent out he place I'm living in for ~3 months, 3 months isn't a huge amount of time but it could be enough to get yone's life back on track.

I'm not sure how rent works in the UK, so I imagine this may be another difference between countries. While it is another factor that can vary between states, I had a difficult time finding a place that would rent to me right out of college even with a job. They usually want you to prove that you earn 3x what your monthly rent will be and that you have good credit with a long credit history. I was rejected by several places for having "no credit history" (I largely avoided credit cards up until that point as I didn't want to spend money I didn't actually have, and that... hurt me amusingly enough?) If he had debt he couldn't pay back and no current income, I imagine it will be near impossible for him to find a place willing to rent, especially with the yearly leasing contracts. While you can find places that will rent monthly, the prices usually get hiked up severely in comparison to a longer contract. You'd be lucky to manage to get enough for a used laptop to even cover a month's rent for one of those.

There is zero reason to be bored. There are more open jobs in the US right now than people to fill them. Start working doubles.

I can only hope for Toby to get used to what is said to be never-ending grinding in Granblue Fantasy.

Honestly, I think Toby needs to get his priorities in order.
Having experienced a very similar situation with an unstable housing situation when I was younger, I was fortunate enough to have people who had a couch I could crash on. The rest was a desire to better my living situation with the ambition and drive to do so.

In all honesty, I think he needs to take a good look at his life and set some priorities. Does he want a place to live? Does he want to work? Does he have a desire to better himself?
If the answer to those is yes.. then he needs to focus more on living, and maybe a little less on gaming.

Yeah, exactly the posts/replies I was expecting... "How dare the peasant take any time to relax and enjoy himself!"

DerekL1963 wrote:

Yeah, exactly the posts/replies I was expecting... "How dare the peasant take any time to relax and enjoy himself!"

You misread the article. It said fighting the monotony of homelessness. Not what do homeless people do to relax. There is zero reason to have nothing to do in the US right now. If you want to not be bored, there is plenty to do, and you'll make a few dollars doing it.

Quite frankly, as someone who is in a rather bad, but not THAT BAD of a situation, I recommend Toby spend some hours of the day trying to get a job. Surely everyone has the right to have some fun. In fact, my leisure is one of those few things keeping me from falling into despair. But I think getting some income is surely of great help.

Though I will admit that, when you lose all hope, you may just feel tempted to entertain yourself until you die.

People can say what they want, but I believe in FDR's Four Freedoms.That even something as basic as a roof is not a guarantee, is just another display of a broken world.

Last edited by horseradish on Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

King Pickle the Wise wrote:

That did stick out to me as odd. If Toby has time to be sitting around playing video games then Toby has time to get a job.

Aphasial wrote:

The article/story is fine for what it is, but what struck out at me was his "boredom" comment. Once you descend into mental illness (and often drug use), things often change, but it sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. In this case, "boredom" is a feature, not a bug, because it might encourage him to find something to do -- i.e., be a productive member of society.

bennyl wrote:

There is zero reason to be bored. There are more open jobs in the US right now than people to fill them. Start working doubles.

Like clockwork. "just get a job!", as if it were that easy. Where does one go to, to simply join a queue, say "one job, please" and get one that provides enough for housing, utilities and other living expenses? Even putting aside how many job vacancies require qualifications, knowledge or aptitudes that the average homeless person probably doesn't have, do you have any idea how much of a barrier homelessness itself is to employment? Even aside from various prerequisites that involve having a fixed address (bank account to be paid into -> need ID and a postal address, for instance), it ain't easy to present yourself well enough to a prospective employer if you don't have a bathroom to have a shave and shower in, a wardrobe to keep a decent suit in, etc. In any way let slip or imply that you're homeless, and they just see someone who's probably not going to be reliable enough for the job and move on to the next candidate.

horseradish wrote:

I saw a twitter thread talking about someone in similar if not exact circumstances (don't know if I should link to it if the article didn't...), but that person was running from the IRS and debt collectors. If that person happens to be Toby, finding a job while staying under their radar would be difficult without working off the books...

It's probably the same thread. Toby told me that "running from his debtors" was more of a joke but did admit he is in debt and it was part of the cause of decision to leave home. The rest of your point is accurate. Presuming he found employment despite not having an address and presumably a bank account, his debtors would find him swiftly to attempt to serve collections for his unpaid debts.

I'm not sure what specific relief Toby would have access to but his situation is one that feeds into a pretty awful cycle. I can't think of any unskilled entry level job where he would be able to save up for and move into housing. As others noted, most require at least two months rent to start, a security deposit, clean credit history, and proof of employment like a pay stub. Most of these places want you earning at least 2-3x whatever rent is in the area.

At this point his credit is probably shot and depending on his debts he could find himself in court in order to pay if collections ever located him. If it went that far, failure to pay could lead to further fines. The system isn't really set up in a way to help him get above where he's at.

Last edited by horseradish on Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hellsoldier wrote:

Though I will admit that, when you lose all hope, you may just feel tempted to entertain yourself until you die.

This. My roommate was a shut in. He's smart, has the potential to do so much, and the means to pick up his own life, but he grew up in an abusive household that told him he was a bad person, that he would never get a job, refused to let him help out around the house, gave him no reason to care about looking for a job, and then faulted him for being lazy and having no drive.
I pulled him away from that situation and I see him improving gradually, but that many years thinking you were garbage and that life isn't worth living except for the little entertainment you can get from online games and forums REALLY takes a toll on a person. It turns "Ugh, I have to do the dishes today" into "What's the point of doing the dishes when you're just going to dirty them again?" and "I need to get some sleep for work tomorrow" into "I'm not going to like my job anyway, so I might as well just be sleepy at work and awake at home." The thing is, he's good with saving, so he has plenty of money to live better, even on his menial paycheck. He is the least selfish person I know, always putting his friends above himself and trying to pep-talk me when I'm upset and depressed, and he gets really upset when he sees other people wasting their lives when they have amazing talent. But he refuses to see that in himself.

He thinks an easy life is a happy life, and resigns himself to his fate. It's a classic sign of depression, and resonates with a younger version of myself before I decided to follow an old passion and become an artist, a translator, and live in Japan--all things I finally proved I was capable of doing years ago, and even now look back, thinking, "Wow, that person was cool." As Tohru would say, some of us have an umeboshi stuck to our backs and we can only see the ones that belong to other people.

Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

King Pickle the Wise wrote:

That did stick out to me as odd. If Toby has time to be sitting around playing video games then Toby has time to get a job.

Aphasial wrote:

The article/story is fine for what it is, but what struck out at me was his "boredom" comment. Once you descend into mental illness (and often drug use), things often change, but it sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. In this case, "boredom" is a feature, not a bug, because it might encourage him to find something to do -- i.e., be a productive member of society.

bennyl wrote:

There is zero reason to be bored. There are more open jobs in the US right now than people to fill them. Start working doubles.

Like clockwork. "just get a job!", as if it were that easy. Where does one go to, to simply join a queue, say "one job, please" and get one that provides enough for housing, utilities and other living expenses? Even putting aside how many job vacancies require qualifications, knowledge or aptitudes that the average homeless person probably doesn't have, do you have any idea how much of a barrier homelessness itself is to employment? Even aside from various prerequisites that involve having a fixed address (bank account to be paid into -> need ID and a postal address, for instance), it ain't easy to present yourself well enough to a prospective employer if you don't have a bathroom to have a shave and shower in, a wardrobe to keep a decent suit in, etc. In any way let slip or imply that you're homeless, and they just see someone who's probably not going to be reliable enough for the job and move on to the next candidate.

If I remember correctly, the largest predictor of getting and keeping a job is having stable housing, but having stable housing of course requires some sort of stable or at least semi-stable income. Not to mention that many homeless often require some sort of mental health assistance. So it's a catch-22 of which to provide first. This is why some areas started programs that offer stable housing and wrap-around services in an attempt to give the homeless what they need to keep a stable job and stable housing, and thus eventually not need assistance, or at least need less of it.

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