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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:00 pm
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Teriyaki Terrier wrote: |
Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. This is especially the case if the characters look like kids or are in fact kids in the manga. |
By that logic, a film about killing people is the same as murder, a rape fantasy is rape, thinking about stealing is the same as doing it, and just about every actor should be in prison for depicting illegal acts.
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hikaru004
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:03 pm
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V1046-R wrote: |
One-Eye wrote: | From the handbook:
Quote: | You are more likely to be chosen to have your devices searched if you:
-Are importing something the CBSA deems to be suspicious. This could include anime and manga, which the CBSA is highly suspicious of. The CBSA has reminded its officers that “most [anime and manga is] not
child porn”.
-Are a single man traveling alone. |
After reading that handbook its pretty chilling. They can stop anyone at anytime and go thru all your electronic devices. Complain too much? Then its suspicious and you are liable to get your stuff confiscated for a more detailed search. Are you a single man traveling alone with pics of your kids at the beach, then you are probably a pedophile and need to be locked up. It even mentions that there are rumors of searching for illegal copies of media. So, I guess if you have rips of your favorite anime on your laptop or phone you may get scrutinized. |
Common sense would tell me when travelling to another country, don't take chances & don't bring anything that makes you stand out. Including images on electronic devices. You are in someone else's land, and all rules you know about from where you live are out the window. Squeaky clean is my rule of thumb when traveling across borders. |
I couldn't agree with this more.
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Saffire
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1256
Location: Iowa, USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:11 pm
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VORTIA wrote: |
Teriyaki Terrier wrote: |
Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. This is especially the case if the characters look like kids or are in fact kids in the manga. |
By that logic, a film about killing people is the same as murder, a rape fantasy is rape, thinking about stealing is the same as doing it, and just about every actor should be in prison for depicting illegal acts. |
None of those are the same thing. If he was being charged with actual child predatory acts for possessing those images, then you would have a point.
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Gilles Poitras
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Oakland California
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:14 pm
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VORTIA
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 941
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:16 pm
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Saffire wrote: |
VORTIA wrote: |
Teriyaki Terrier wrote: |
Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. This is especially the case if the characters look like kids or are in fact kids in the manga. |
By that logic, a film about killing people is the same as murder, a rape fantasy is rape, thinking about stealing is the same as doing it, and just about every actor should be in prison for depicting illegal acts. |
None of those are the same thing. If he was being charged with actual child predatory acts for possessing those images, then you would have a point. |
All depict a crime, but only the depiction of one is sometimes considered a crime. Why is depiction/expression of a crime only illegal in this one case? It's an arbitrary standard, quite simply.
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configspace
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 pm
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Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | Wow, that is just crazy. But even crazier, is that chargers were dropped.
Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. This is especially the case if the characters look like kids or are in fact kids in the manga.
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I can only shake my head at your attitude.
The Canadian laws are written that way unfortunately because of that kind of thinking.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:35 pm
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hikaru004 wrote: |
V1046-R wrote: |
One-Eye wrote: | From the handbook:
Quote: | You are more likely to be chosen to have your devices searched if you:
-Are importing something the CBSA deems to be suspicious. This could include anime and manga, which the CBSA is highly suspicious of. The CBSA has reminded its officers that “most [anime and manga is] not
child porn”.
-Are a single man traveling alone. |
After reading that handbook its pretty chilling. They can stop anyone at anytime and go thru all your electronic devices. Complain too much? Then its suspicious and you are liable to get your stuff confiscated for a more detailed search. Are you a single man traveling alone with pics of your kids at the beach, then you are probably a pedophile and need to be locked up. It even mentions that there are rumors of searching for illegal copies of media. So, I guess if you have rips of your favorite anime on your laptop or phone you may get scrutinized. |
Common sense would tell me when travelling to another country, don't take chances & don't bring anything that makes you stand out. Including images on electronic devices. You are in someone else's land, and all rules you know about from where you live are out the window. Squeaky clean is my rule of thumb when traveling across borders. |
I couldn't agree with this more. |
more or less but also don't keep porno or manga on your main hd, used a external hdd or thumb drive. Even then there is a risk but no where near as bad saying sir turn on pc and lets check the HD
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14784
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:12 pm
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My money to CBLDF putting to good use, instead of spending on some anime worth it.
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:30 pm
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Drawings aren't people. End of story.
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Dagon123
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 194
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:50 pm
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Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. |
penguintruth wrote: |
Drawings aren't people. End of story. |
One and the same? Really? Really?
Regardless of how the law inteprets it, the common thought process is
Drawn characters do not exist as living entities
Do Not exist as living Entities
Do not exist, cannot be harmed
One and the same wow, just wow
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:31 pm
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the judgement that drawings depicting possible children having sex with other children, or adults comes from the many tested and debated theories that the mind is stimulated the same way regardless what media is used to satisfy that stimulation, which can then cause a craving for increase of stimulation to the point of actual predatory events and outcomes. Therefore a drawing of child porn can have the same effect as real child porn in some perpetrators. But the debate goes on and I find the whole result as wanting more testing as the conclusions are still to ambiguous and sporatic to be of concrete use in law making. What happened in this case boils down to what the understood definition of virtual child porn [VCP] is in the laws in Canada, and the bias of the inspector on duty at the time. There has been cases in the UK in the past where parents were called in to police stations to explain photos taken of their infants in the bath tub. For one such parents turns out that the photo lab tech reported them into the police after he developed the film. The case was eventually thrown out of court and all charges dropped, when the judge reprimanded the police for lack of common sense in judgement between a loving parents with a new infant and predatory child molestors taken lude pictures of naked children in the bath. The police had to apologise to the family and pay costs, which was also a waste of taxpayers money. Everyone and everything is under suspicion in some law enforcer's eye's to the point that it becomes a mental disorder.
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TitanXL
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:32 pm
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Darkmagick wrote: | Did they ever actually say what manga it was they found on his computer? Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but I keep expecting it to be something that it would be totally ridiculous to call "child porn", like One Piece or something... |
I remember one library cited Dragonball as child porn. I guess either due to Goku's penis or Bulma's full nudity as they're both under 18.
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agila61
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:35 pm
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Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | Just because manga characters aren't real, given that they are depicted as real people, it's still one in the same. |
Erica Friedman:
Quote: | A representation of thing is not the thing itself. However simple that truth, it’s the core of an ongoing battle. In every age, there have been those who simply cannot divorce the concept of a thing from a representation of that thing. |
Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | This is especially the case if the characters look like kids or are in fact kids in the manga. |
This is not a person.
It is especially troubling when laws intended to direct our society's resource to fighting actual child pornography in which actual children are abused, oftimes in horrific ways, is instead diverted into suppressing the freedom of expression involving drawings.
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15336
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:37 pm
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Sounds like blackmail to me similar to what they did to the Memphis Three. I guess Canada's got a quota for its legal system, too.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:38 pm
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Mohawk52 wrote: | the judgement that drawings depicting possible children having sex with other children, or adults comes from the many tested and debated theories that the mind is stimulated the same way regardless what media is used to satisfy that stimulation, which can then cause a craving for increase of stimulation to the point of actual predatory events and outcomes. Therefore a drawing of child porn can have the same effect as real child porn in some perpetrators. But the debate goes on and I find the whole result as wanting more testing as the conclusions are still to ambiguous and sporatic to be of concrete use in law making. What happened in this case boils down to what the understood definition of virtual child porn [VCP] is in the laws in Canada, and the bias of the inspector on duty at the time. There has been cases in the UK in the past where parents were called in to police stations to explain photos taken of their infants in the bath tub. For one such parents turns out that the photo lab tech reported them into the police after he developed the film. The case was eventually thrown out of court and all charges dropped, when the judge reprimanded the police for lack of common sense in judgement between a loving parents with a new infant and predatory child molestors taken lude pictures of naked children in the bath. The police had to apologise to the family and pay costs, which was also a waste of taxpayers money. Everyone and everything is under suspicion in some law enforcer's eye's to the point that it becomes a mental disorder. |
welcome to zero-tolerance polices on child pornopaphy. These same laws also that could put stupid teens in love "13-17" that send nude pics via text messing or web cam and have to register as sex offenders. The same legal teens can legally have sex with their bf/gf in real life "flawless logic.gif". So it's not about common sense anymore it is about fear mongering nothing more nothing less. I will leave this here.
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