Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-08-25]
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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Actually, I'm a mod at a forum for a video game and it's the same way. We have users that often go out of their way to irritate us and just barely skirt the rules. It's a pain. That rule is a bit scrict, though. |
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epixeltwin
 Posts: 325 Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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Actually, most of Mint Mania's arguments in the thread about lolicon made much sense to me. I think that some of his views were well thought-out. Maybe he's antagonizing you but if he's not breaking the rules, he's not. I mean, most of the ANN community emphasizes so much on the fact that the forums are a place for mature debate... Maybe he's antagonizing you, but maybe he's just a person who has views very opposite to yours, and shows them as such.
Anyways, I think the fansub debate is an interesting issue, and it's always good that you put up hot topics on your Answerman column even if some people hate it. |
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epixeltwin
Posts: 325 Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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That's very far from it. -The torrents from [a fansub group] get something like 6k-8k SIMULTANEOUS uploaders (seeds) on release days IIRC. -That's only the people all at the same time, so if everyone uploads for an hour, multiply it by 24 for the FIRST DAY ONLY. -Once they're finished downloading the show (may take something as low as 10 minutes if you've got a good connection), most people just stop uploading (seeding). -And one week later, there's still 1 to 1.5k SIMULTANEOUS seeders. Do some math, and you'll understand the numbers surpass 3000 downloads by FAR. I've seen on [a bittorent fansub site] that [a Naruto episode in the 150's] had hit 300k downloads. like Three-Hundred-Thousand. That's ONE fansub group. so you get the picture? |
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Cowboy Cadenza
Posts: 243 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY |
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I'd like to see some other furry rodents someday in addition to the bunnies. Squirrels aren't half bad. Not the squirrels around here, at least.
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Riyousha
Posts: 817 |
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Well I won't download any of them. I'm finally gonna catch Bleach on [adult swim] this week so I don't have to bother downloading.
What a weird-looking rodent. I don't even know about muskrats. |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Check this out, I had the first 50 burned and never got around to watching them. What a waste of $10. I think I only watched the very first episode, maybe the second. Then I found out it got licensed( I believe last March), and lets just say they are now unreadable. True they sat on my self starring at me for some time, but are gone now. Me being busy helped too, but still. Got to hate getting old, having morals over stolen shit. 
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ryujin jakka
 Posts: 156 Location: Kansas City, Missouri |
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This is the problem, None of the Company's Like ADV, Funimation, ECT will do any thing about it. I would like to give a high five to the guy at bandai who said "DON'T FANSUB GITS:SSS, OR YOU WILL FEEL THE DIVINE JUSTICE OF GOD" In a maner of speaking thats what they said. If more companys would step up and Prosocute the Fansubers, as well as the viewee's the Trend would stop quickely. |
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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Pardon my language but that's really a laugable conjecture, and uninformed. Seriously, do you really think it'd do much, and do you honestly think it'd be beneficial to them in the long wrong? The answer is definetly no. For the last time, they're going to have to work with fansubs pure and simple, we get what we want when it's easy, no matter if it's illegal or not.
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kizoku
 Posts: 47 Location: Ypsilanti, MI |
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I've done both. Has anyone besides myself considered the analogy of books and libraries? Hardly anyone checks out a book and stops reading it to go buy there own copy to support the publishing industry, but libraries vastly increase the overall sale of books. Locally, the big bookstores (and some small ones) scatter chairs around so you can conveniently read before you buy (or even instead of). Overall, the more readers (or viewers) you have, the more sales. Maybe the anime industry should take a leaf from the publishing industry. Recently, many authors and publishers have started putting the first few chapters on-line for people to browse before the book comes out. To get them hooked.  A few free episodes would do the same thing. Legal, lower priced, downloads would probably kick up overall profits too. It seems to work for the publishers.
OK, back to lurking. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You do realize that not everyone who likes or watches anime is so militantly against actually paying for it or waiting to see it, right? That they're not all people with entitlement complexes; many of them would rather watch anime on DVD or on television, many of them feel a responsibility to pay for entertainment, and many of them actually believe that breaking the law is, you know, wrong. So no, the industry doesn't have to do anything at all to appease you and the people who think like you; the truth of the matter is, they've already lost people with your attitude as an audience. You don't place any value on anime; you're downloading it not because you should, you're doing it because you CAN, with zero regard for the legality or morality for what you're doing. It isn't up to the rest of the world to change and fit whatever new "rules" you've come up with to justify your behavoir. Nobody owes you anything. |
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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You know Zac, I really love how you think you can judge people pretty much entirely on their statements and be so utterly wrong. Who do you think you are? Who do you think I am? All Wrong.
If you really think I have a problem giving credit in this case where it is due, in buying properties especially, you are sadly mistaken. If you really think I'm saying what I'm saying because I have some personal interest rooted specifically in my view, again I tell you, you are sadly mistaken. If you really think I'm arguing for justifiable reasons for any sort of behavior, wrong, right, or otherwise, just give it a rest. This is an argument about practicality, reality, and facing facts. I just happen to like to argue my opinion and granted I'm arrogant time again but none the less I want some kind of recognition for any form of thought directed towards the topic if this actually is some kind of debate. If you were really up to it, no matter how you think I act, you should at least address my point, not dismiss it because of how I present it as if my behavior must always dictate my validity. Zac, you're being ridiculous, just because some people don't pay for a property doesn’t mean they don't hold it of value in the first place. You're assuming your opinion of "value" must mean they'd want to pay for it, the world doesn't work based on that. Again, this isn't a question of morality or legality; it's a question of practicality on the issue of fan subs. People don't think in moral or legal terms, they think in desire and consequences, all relatively. Sure some people don't do stuff because it's against the law, but can you say the same when they know it's pretty much impossible to get caught? Not everyone thinks they should always follow the law blindly like you. In fact, I'm sure you can't even say that yourself. If anything I should have added to my statement, again, that it's assuming they want to do anything about fan subbing or get the most out of it. Sure the industry doesn't have to do anything about it and it isn't really a problem at all but that's not what this is about, it's about what's best for them to do in response to it in general. I think I've clearly stated my view on that. If you really think businesses are better off to think like you, forgetting a target audience that can be swayed more towards their profit and that at the same time could encourage an audience to do something legal instead of illegal that they want to, you have no grounds to speak against my view. And even to quote you:
How do you think the world today works? Do you really think we're caring more about what's "right", or more about what we want and can do easily without consequence? Answer me that, and prove your fallible nature. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Wow It wasn't practical to bomb the Bismark, but we made him leave port. It wasn't practical for Columbus to sail into the unknown, but he found a place I call home. And as far as the word value, it is a two way street. While you may hold something of value, you may also be taking away someone elses. Most people like to keep it equal, in the most civil way. True it is an uphill battle for legit companies, but you are just asking them to give up and not draw any lines. How do you think like this? Hire all the fansub groups that are distributing there shows for free? They would go out of business on payroll alone.
Well I like how you equate sexual intercourse with watching TV. But I guess kids are pretty stupid these days. As far as smoking, well a couple guys I know get fansubs, and one day I tried one, and everyday since I have been going back and smoking there cigs, they seem to like to give them to me for free, as long as I don't take to many "bands" that is. 
And I used to smoke too, and sometimes I will even sneak one in. But if you want to equate downloading of fansubs with actual addiction, then I think we are all in bigger trouble than we know. At the end of High School I stayed away from the freshmen. And I am not big on rape either. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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You've yet to prove otherwise and have made a pretty strong case for what you're trying to deny actually. You could shoot a man and then tell the judge you didn't do it, but just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. Worst things about ethics and matters of this nature is often times you're everything you deny and don't even realize it yourself.
Interesting, because so far you've failed to address practicality or reality and have only faced any facts that support your point of view or can be twisted to do so while blissfully ignoring the rest.
Again, you've faced few facts, failed to address practicality or reality. By stealing it because you can you are essentially demonstrating it holds no value to you. Simply because the economics wouldn't support it if it were distributed that way. This stuff doesn't make itself and it needs the monetary support, it would simply cease to exist if leeches like you got your way and got it all for free. You're also assuming people don't think in moral or legal terms, but you're wrong as many people do, society as it exists today is proof of that.
It isn't a problem at all? You may tell yourself that but I believe it's you yourself who isn't facing reality and facts now. Go to any major anime forum or website without rules on fansub discussion and see just how many fans download anime only. It's no small number and if you think people taking what isn't theirs while the people who create it live on marginal wages due to your selfishness isn't a problem then you're even dumber than you've made yourself sound already. How are you a target audience? You don't pay for it, you take it, and in reality you'll likely keep taking it as long as you can. Why? Because you've already said as much. So you're not a target audience, and pretty much from your own words you've stated you won't be swayed for profit. Zac has all the grounds in the world to speak against your views, especially when you're speaking against his, what puts you above him where you can attack him and he can't attack you? As long as the free anime is there the people who take it will continue to take it. So far your "view" has not provided anything that doesn't selfishly consider yourself only or any viable option on how your view could actually work for all sides. So far your view has only worked towards your own selfish interests and nothing more and fortunately many people in this world aren't quite as greedy, selfish and blind to the world and people around them.
I think it's a balance of the two, but such a simple line of thinking I suppose would inspire one to believe it's either A or Z with nothing in the middle. If people only cared about what they can do without consequence this world would be a far different place than it is today. It's no paradise, but it's not the kind of world your point of view would create either. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I had originally planned to actually refute what you said here but in reality it's Labor Day and I'd much rather relax and play video games than waste my life arguing with you. You think whatever you want, live in whatever reality you live in, and continue thinking that I think I'm some kind of infallible monster or whatever. It is not physically possible for me to care less about your opinion on the matter. |
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Steve007101
Posts: 165 Location: IL, USA |
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Eh, same here, I'm goin to bed.
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