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REVIEW: Paprika


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15336
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:34 am Reply with quote
Samurai:
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Considering it's probably the most-bashed title ever released in the United States,except may be (though unlikely) Naruto,


If only that were really the case. Cool At least the Narutards don't complain that "you don't get it" when you trash their show.

Quote:
It might be an exception for someone who knows the name of Satoshi Kon, but entertainment is not meant to be enjoyed because the creator is named William Shakespeare or some other famous person with a certain style.


That's pretty much why I didn't like Tokyo Godfathers. Kon claimed it was different from his previous work, but it was just as psychological and melodramatic as Perfect Blue, and wasn't really given the chance to be funny.

Lydia:
Quote:
Quite frankly, I'm willing to trust the word of a guy who's seen over 500+ anime series and movies...even though some of his "masterpieces" may be questionable.


I'm willing to trust Justin, because did a bang-up job at CPM getting some classy titles on dvd which were stuck in licensing hell. (No offense to Peter...)
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:27 am Reply with quote
LydiaDianne wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm willing to trust the word of a guy who's seen over 500+ anime series and movies...even though some of his "masterpieces" may be questionable. Wink Very Happy


Sadly, I have another 220 in "seen some" (needs updating) and 343 in "will not finish." I didn't include them here because I didn't give my opinions of them, so that really wouldn't help anyone in gauging my tastes. Sometimes I think I've probably spent a good 1/3 of my adult life watching anime. Maybe I should have a nerd-party when my "seen all" reaches 600.

To be perfectly honest, there are precious few anime these days that really get me very excited anymore. (I do have high hopes for Studio 4C's new movie Tekkon Kinkreet, since it's based on a manga (published in the US by Viz as "Black & White") that I really love.) So to get this worked up over a new release was something pretty rare.

I hope everyone here enjoys it as much as I did, but I fully expect this to be another Evangelion, where half of anime fandom calls it the second coming and the other half hates it with the firey passion of a Narutard flaming a dub job. It's not the most accessible thing in the world.

Re: the character designs, I find judging character designs to be the most subjective part of reviewing an anime, since it's almost an issue of pure style. Even the ugliest designs may be in service to the story, and if so, that's hard to fault. I didn't mention it at all in my review, but I can't imagine the movie looking any other way.

GATSU, thanks for the kudos, but I can't take credit for doing much in the way of licensing while I was at CPM (though I did try to help the guys that did such work as best I could). My work there was mostly in production. (And for the record, Peter worked in marketing. So really, neither of us did licensing work, though we certainly tried to help.)

Re: confusion in Perfect Blue
The point of the entire second act of Perfect Blue was confusion -- spoiler[Mima didn't know what was real and what was all in her head, and neither did we, and in the end it's revealed that it wasn't even the real Mima's head]. I always thought that was a little bit unfair, so while I like Perfect Blue quite a bit, I don't consider it to be on the same level as Kon's other work.

Re: Tokyo Godfathers
I enjoy this movie on an entirely different level than Kon's other work, and while it didn't shatter my conceptions of anime as a storytelling medium like Millennium Actress did (think about that narrative structure, and try to picture it working in ANY other artform... and then try to think of the last time a new narrative structure was INVENTED), I appreciated it's heart, its humor and its very real characters.

An interesting side note that I've read is that the budget for Paprika was about the same as for Tokyo Godfathers, and that the GREATLY enhanced visuals can be attributed to advancements in CG and 2D/3D blending techniques since then. Of course, the muted, dirty colors of the world of homeless people don't really make for much of a wow factor.

I hope the original Paprika novel gets translated eventually, maybe by some of the companies experimenting with light novels these days. I recently read Tokyopop's release of Kino no Tabi and was greatly impressed.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:46 am Reply with quote
jsevakis:
Quote:

I hope everyone here enjoys it as much as I did, but I fully expect this to be another Evangelion, where half of anime fandom calls it the second coming and the other half hates it with the firey passion of a Narutard flaming a dub job.


Doubt it. Unless Paprika has angsty teens, only the arthouse fans will watch it. Kon's a tough sell in Japan and the U.S. Even when Perfect Blue got released here, the hype went to Kite, possibly because the violence was more gratuitous than PB, but also because it was done in slow motion to make you think you were watching something deep. Rolling Eyes (Though there was a guy at AX who cosplayed as Shonen Bat...)

Quote:
The point of the entire second act of Perfect Blue was confusion -- spoiler[Mima didn't know what was real and what was all in her head, and neither did we, and in the end it's revealed that it wasn't even the real Mima's head]. I always thought that was a little bit unfair, so while I like Perfect Blue quite a bit, I don't consider it to be on the same level as Kon's other work.


I thought the point of that second act wasn't really about confusion, but about identity. I.E. the pressure Mima had to maintain her "wholesome" image to the media and fans while attempting to be herself outside of her concerts. She was bred to be a performer to the point that she was mostly naive about the real world. She wasn't necessarily confused about reality as much as her place in that reality. She was so used to her agent
doing everything for her, that she didn't really have any sense of self when it came to being able to distinguish her actions from those made up by rumour-mongers.

Quote:
I enjoy this movie on an entirely different level than Kon's other work, and while it didn't shatter my conceptions of anime as a storytelling medium like Millennium Actress did (think about that narrative structure, and try to picture it working in ANY other artform... and then try to think of the last time a new narrative structure was INVENTED),


I so agree on Millennium Actress. If Dreamworks knew how to market it, it would have at least been nominated for Best Animated Film. I heard Kon was pissed at how they handled it, too. (Fans on his message board were noting similar scenes between it and "Memoirs of a Geisha", although I tried to point out to them that the latter film was based on a book which preceded MA; but I couldn't entirely disagree with their opions regarding similar set designs for both films.) Oh well, Ratatouillie looks lame, so here's hoping Paprika wins the award this time.

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I appreciated it's heart, its humor and its very real characters.


Didn't really like TG's humour, but I will admit it had heart. It just seemed confused about whether it wanted to be a comedy or a drama. I have the same problem with the legal clips I saw of Jersey Girl.

Quote:
I hope the original Paprika novel gets translated eventually, maybe by some of the companies experimenting with light novels these days.


I'm still waiting for the original Perfect Blue novel to get a translation. It sounds like it's right up Vertical's alley.
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halochief_90



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:17 am Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
Re: the character designs, I find judging character designs to be the most subjective part of reviewing an anime, since it's almost an issue of pure style. Even the ugliest designs may be in service to the story, and if so, that's hard to fault. I didn't mention it at all in my review, but I can't imagine the movie looking any other way.
I believe I was the one who brought this up. Yeah, I guess judging character designs are subjective, but perhaps it's hard not to get influenced opinions into a review. I haven't seen any of the movie, but given the screenshots I've seen, that's pretty much all I can comment on.

Maybe this is just me, but I found GITS:SAC character designs very bothersome, and in some ways, detracted my enjoyment of the show. I watched the GITS movie though, and saw a complete difference. I find that when the designers modeled the characters for the show, they came up with a too realistic approach, while the movie looked more "anime". I'm not saying the characters have to look a certain way, but you sometimes get the feeling they're trying too hard.
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Jadress



Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:56 am Reply with quote
halochief_90 wrote:
Maybe this is just me, but I found GITS:SAC character designs very bothersome, and in some ways, detracted my enjoyment of the show. I watched the GITS movie though, and saw a complete difference. I find that when the designers modeled the characters for the show, they came up with a too realistic approach, while the movie looked more "anime". I'm not saying the characters have to look a certain way, but you sometimes get the feeling they're trying too hard.


Wow, it certainly is subjective, because I feel the exact opposite about the GITS movie and show designs. I always felt like the movie designs were more realistic and that the major looked rather mannish, and I didn't like that as much having been a fan of the original manga. (Because let's face it, Shirow's style in no way can be called realistic). But I felt the SAC designs were closer to the manga, which had more cartoony faces in the first place.

Anyway, Paprika sounds very good, and while I don't think as highly of Kon as Justin does, his films are always pretty entertaining. One thing about Kon's work- I haven't seen Paranoia Agent, but does anyone else think that his characters overact? Like.. I've never seen an animated character overact before, but I feel like they do in his movies and to me it lends an awkwardness. Strange stuff.
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halochief_90



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:15 am Reply with quote
Jadress wrote:
halochief_90 wrote:
Maybe this is just me, but I found GITS:SAC character designs very bothersome, and in some ways, detracted my enjoyment of the show. I watched the GITS movie though, and saw a complete difference. I find that when the designers modeled the characters for the show, they came up with a too realistic approach, while the movie looked more "anime". I'm not saying the characters have to look a certain way, but you sometimes get the feeling they're trying too hard.


Wow, it certainly is subjective, because I feel the exact opposite about the GITS movie and show designs. I always felt like the movie designs were more realistic and that the major looked rather mannish, and I didn't like that as much having been a fan of the original manga. (Because let's face it, Shirow's style in no way can be called realistic). But I felt the SAC designs were closer to the manga, which had more cartoony faces in the first place.
The way I see it, I always felt that SAC added more details, like rinkles, to the faces. More about the little details. But yes, the movie is more realistic in the sense you're talking about.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Overall (sub) : A+
Story : A+
Animation : A+
Art : A+
Music : A+

+ Amazing animation and music. Mind-torching storytelling.
- Will absolutely be too weird for some people.

Rated: Teenagers (May contain bloody violence, bad language, nudity)


Well at least I am sold on it already....I really like the negative for this movie....too weird for some people, that like a double postive to me. I am just hoping that this work can deliever, that would be so sweet.
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Samurai-with-glasses



Joined: 17 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:17 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
If only that were really the case. Cool At least the Narutards don't complain that "you don't get it" when you trash their show.
That's...kinda true.

Wait, not really. Try attacking the show while in "their turf." I felt like I was being guillotined in the Place de la Revolution for not agreeing with the majority opinion. At least the Evangelion fans will only try to "make you understand." Very Happy
GATSU wrote:
That's pretty much why I didn't like Tokyo Godfathers. Kon claimed it was different from his previous work, but it was just as psychological and melodramatic as Perfect Blue, and wasn't really given the chance to be funny.
Interesting viewpoint. I disagree, however; in my opinion, the subdued humor in constrast with serious scenes make for a very different film from the usual mainstream. I guess it's just a jaded fan vs enthusiastic newbie case. Perfect Blue's second part was downright confusing for me--I can grasp the plot, relatively, but which scene is which and from whose viewpoint I can't answer fo the life of me--whereas Tokyo Godfather was an enjoyable experience.
Jadress wrote:
I haven't seen Paranoia Agent, but does anyone else think that his characters overact? Like.. I've never seen an animated character overact before, but I feel like they do in his movies and to me it lends an awkwardness. Strange stuff.
I remembered one scene in particular that might qualify for that in Paranoia Agent. It's the episode where lil' slugger visited the older Detective's wife. spoiler[The wife's "triumphant" reaction in the end,] certainly was melodramatic. I thought that was brilliant for some reason, though. It's quite awkward yet so...real. Weird.
GATSU wrote:
Doubt it. Unless Paprika has angsty teens, only the arthouse fans will watch it.
Aw, com'on. I believe Kon's stuff has been increasingly popular since the release of Paranoia Agent. That show's AS run certainly brought in a lot of fans, me included (who, though watched two of his movies before, never recognized the guy). It might brought more Kon-haters (the "PA is so boring! It sucks! Bring back shonen action and Tom Goes To The Junkyard!" crowd) than new fans but in this case it's the fans that counts. I hope Paprika got a lot of exposure.

Justin: If I may ask something, how does the theme of confusion play out in Paprika compare to Perfect Blue? While I understood the necessity for confusion in Perfect Blue I wasn't particularly enamored by it, so I'm quite worried.
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Dargonxtc



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:24 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Kon's a tough sell in Japan and the U.S. Even when Perfect Blue got released here, the hype went to Kite, possibly because the violence was more gratuitous than PB, but also because it was done in slow motion to make you think you were watching something deep. Rolling Eyes
Wow, is that true? I was out of country when PB was released. I have seen both, and Kite is good, but no where near Perfect in my opinion. So I guess I am just Shocked
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Samurai:
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At least the Evangelion fans will only try to "make you understand."


Bah! So will Scientologists. Razz

Quote:
Aw, com'on. I believe Kon's stuff has been increasingly popular since the release of Paranoia Agent.


GITS has become more popular since SAC, and Innocence still flopped. Kon's just not mainstream enough in the business, unfortunately, which is ironic, because his brethren in the industry, Koji Morimoto, is probably more artsy than him, but seems to get better gigs.
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:49 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
GITS has become more popular since SAC, and Innocence still flopped. Kon's just not mainstream enough in the business, unfortunately, which is ironic, because his brethren in the industry, Koji Morimoto, is probably more artsy than him, but seems to get better gigs.


HUH?! You completely lost me here. Morimoto (and I'm a big fan of him as well) has never gotten to direct anything longer than 50 minutes. I can hardly call that better gigs.

Of course, that 50-minute piece he did do, Memories: Magnetic Rose, was written by Kon. Which makes that an AWESOME ANIMATOR EXPLOSION OF AWESOMENESS as far as I'm concerned. Anime hyper

I don't know why everybody thinks Perfect Blue bombed, far from it. It did very well for Manga, probably as good as or better than Kite did for MB. (And I love Kite, so no sour grapes from me either way.) And despite Adult Swim, Paranoia Agent didn't do as well as everybody thinks it did either.

Jadress wrote:
I haven't seen Paranoia Agent, but does anyone else think that his characters overact? Like.. I've never seen an animated character overact before, but I feel like they do in his movies and to me it lends an awkwardness. Strange stuff.


Huh. Never thought of that before. I definitely agree that was the case in Perfect Blue, and some parts of Millennium Actress can be seen that way. Tokyo Godfathers is bawdy enough that it's completely approprite.

Classical Japanese acting is much more stagey than American acting, so big emotions are not quite as out of place there as here. (To see an example of the two schools of acting completely clashing, rent "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" with Beat Takeshi and David Bowie.) I think most of the "overacting" in Kon films tends to be a style, and again, in service of the story. Besides, if people are having delightful mental breakdowns, I really can't think of another way to convey that.

Samurai-with-glasses wrote:
If I may ask something, how does the theme of confusion play out in Paprika compare to Perfect Blue? While I understood the necessity for confusion in Perfect Blue I wasn't particularly enamored by it, so I'm quite worried.


I addressed this in the review, but let me expound a bit more: in Paprika, confusion is there, but unlike Perfect Blue, it's not the point. It's not emphasized, because the characters are not feeling the same confusion -- they're too busy either solving problems or going crazy with fun. And Dr. Atsuko/Paprika is such a grounding force, that we feel sort of like a kid in a new place, but holding our parent's hand. A feeling of "Wow, this is weird. What the hell is going on. Thank God for Paprika... maybe she'll tell us what this is all about someday."

Gatsu wrote:
I'm still waiting for the original Perfect Blue novel to get a translation. It sounds like it's right up Vertical's alley.

That would be awesome, but from what I hear, it's very different and pretty pulpy. Kon didn't even read it before he made the movie.
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:18 pm Reply with quote
jsevakis:
Quote:
Morimoto (and I'm a big fan of him as well) has never gotten to direct anything longer than 50 minutes. I can hardly call that better gigs.


True, but he's gotten a lot more jobs as an animator than Kon.

Quote:

I don't know why everybody thinks Perfect Blue bombed, far from it. It did very well for Manga, probably as good as or better than Kite did for MB. (And I love Kite, so no sour grapes from me either way.)


I'm not saying Perfect Blue didn't do well for Manga-though X and GITS have been bigger hits for them-but it didn't get the same hype as Kite. It's almost as if MB wanted word-of-mouth to be spread about that deleted underage sex scene, so it would boost sales for the OVA. Because before that, it was just a couple of Evatologists who were into it, and then everyone was suddenly praising it. And Perfect Blue couldn't compete, because aside from a few violent scenes, it
was mostly a psychological thriller, not sexploitation.
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jsevakis
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:35 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I'm not saying Perfect Blue didn't do well for Manga-though X and GITS have been bigger hits for them-but it didn't get the same hype as Kite. It's almost as if MB wanted word-of-mouth to be spread about that deleted underage sex scene, so it would boost sales for the OVA. Because before that, it was just a couple of Evatologists who were into it, and then everyone was suddenly praising it. And Perfect Blue couldn't compete, because aside from a few violent scenes, it
was mostly a psychological thriller, not sexploitation.


No, I was actually running ANN at that point, and I'm the one that made the call to MB to get info on the edits when the story broke. They were REALLY tight-lipped, and it really seemed like they were genuinely hoping nobody would notice.

Of course, that was pretty standard back then. Anime companies didn't know how to deal with press, and calling most of them completely freaked them out. It was kind of funny, actually.

Don't mistake internet anime forum buzz for actual sales success. While Kite may have gotten a lot of attention, Perfect Blue was much more successful in crossing over into the mainstream market, which is where the real sales potential is. That was even more true back in '98 when that came out here.

Also, don't discount theatrical runs. Perfect Blue had a pretty decent one, and just having even a money-losing theatrical run usually translates to MUCH more in home video sales. Retail buyers that normally just gloss over anime pay a lot more attention when there's movie critic quotes, and tend to buy a lot deeper. So the end result is something like Perfect Blue will end up in a lot of stores that other anime would never appear in.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:12 am Reply with quote
jsevakis:
Quote:

No, I was actually running ANN at that point, and I'm the one that made the call to MB to get info on the edits when the story broke.


I got my info from "Ramza", but I guess he could have gotten it through you.

Quote:
They were REALLY tight-lipped, and it really seemed like they were genuinely hoping nobody would notice.


Well I didn't really notice myself. It was basically the same story, but less [sexually] graphic. The gratuitous violence still ruined it though.

Quote:
Don't mistake internet anime forum buzz for actual sales success.


When it comes to anime, buzz does translate into sales most of the time. See Evangelion, Kenshin, and Naruto.

Quote:
While Kite may have gotten a lot of attention, Perfect Blue was much more successful in crossing over into the mainstream market, which is where the real sales potential is. That was even more true back in '98 when that came out here.


I agree with your point about the film's wider accessibility being key to greater sales, but Perfect Blue's moment in the spotlight was apparently short-lived, judging by the lackluster interest in Millennium Actress versus the fan anticipation for Mezzo Forte and other girls-with-guns titles like Noir. And even with the exposure he's gotten from Paranoia Agent, that show will never be as big as Lain. And it's a shame, because it actually has more to say than Lain.

Quote:
Perfect Blue had a pretty decent one, and just having even a money-losing theatrical run usually translates to MUCH more in home video sales.


Even with Steamboy?

Quote:
Retail buyers that normally just gloss over anime pay a lot more attention when there's movie critic quotes, and tend to buy a lot deeper.So the end result is something like Perfect Blue will end up in a lot of stores that other anime would never appear in.


Well yeah, dvd sales are what matter in the end for many of these titles, but awareness is also a factor in those sales. And
while Kon's anime is probably profitable here, it's not the kind of anime I see which gets re-stocked by vendors. That might change, depending on the recent broadcast of Paranoia Agent and how it translates into sales outside of film festivals for Paprika, but for the time being, Kon's basically the equivalent of an indie film director here, which is ironic, since indie directors like Aronofsky and Miike have actually become more mainstream than Kon, even though they adapted Kon's film-making style. [Tell me that dream sequence in Audition isn't blatantly inspired by the one in Perfect Blue.] Still, at least there's not as much of a fight to get certain nameless distributors to release Kon's work here, which is more than I can say for titles like Angel's Egg and Only Yesterday. So Kon must be doing something right.
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FlamingPinecone



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:12 pm Reply with quote
So anyone got any theories on how fast this shit will be ported into a more purchaseable format?

fawhooosh!
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